Game Thread: New York Knicks @ Boston Celtics 7:00pm 12/27/2015

[Broadway]

Remember...Ewing era was doomed when we squandered those 2 lottery picks in '85 (?)... Instead of drafting Pippen and Reggie Miller we ended up reading for two dweebs we cut within a year...

The post Ewing era doomed when we traded his expiring contract for bad contract (compounding problem with more bad grades)...

And... The last few years was doomed... Not when we dealt for Melo... But when we signed Dantoni and decided to tank for Lebron... We were right to do that but didn't adhere to the plan... We brought in aging vets on 1 year deals (Harrington, Hues, Duhon, etc).... And tries to win 20-30 games (preserve sell out streak) as opposed to enduring some hardship for the greater good...

3-4 more Ls each of those two seasons... Would have netted us Russell Westrbook and Steph Curry. Imagine Dantoni ball with those 2 guys... Instead, we win a few meaningless games bc of our veteran roster... And end up with Danillo Gallinari and Jordan Hill.

Never forget that! We loved Westbrook and Curry... But they were just a smidge out of our reach bc we didn't fully commit to tanking for LJ.

Melo? He was just plan-C... Employed bc we already failed (and thus were doomed)... Even that might have worked had we not squandered out 1 get-out-of-a-bad deal gifted to us in the new CBA... Instead, out idiot owner picks up a player option (Billups) just to amnesty him (instead of amnesty inch Amar'e bc our owner wanted to remain loyal)... The same owner who runs a gestapo and wouldn't welcome Lin back bc he felt betrayed.

Agreed that was a failed plan although remember right before trading for Melo the team was 28-26(reeling some but above .500). You know how everyone was giddy this yr's trash team was 14-14 ABOUT A WEEK AGO?

Right before trading for Melo this team had hella assets and high water but...

The plan as you said was a fail because it was clear whore pipe dreaming and one we actually should have never entertained. If you're gonna hire D'Antoni then put a track meet team together(should have did what it took to move up to draft WestBrook) Chad Ford had him on a our Radar for a good 2 weeks. Since that didn't happen next order of business was do whatever it took to get him a point guard...since that didn't happen we should have tried to construct a team to beat a Lebron led team since we were willing to sacrifice assets. Nevertheless we still had breathing room through all of Walsh's mistakes to not go off the deep end for Melo.

 

[mafra]

Dolan did everything the fans wanted 2yrs ago hired Phil and went Ghost and yet we've been worst than we've ever been.

Even the 10yrs prior to....never came with record breaking awfulness and the needle is pointing closer in that direction again this yr. The prior 10yrs was a true lack of patience and high chaos. The past couple of yrs has literally been no direction without chaos. We're gonna see habitual turnover, no development, stunting of growth...stagnation, lots of losing. Not signing and trading Melo was the straw that broke Phil and the Knicks back again.

Dolan is performing in abandoned warehouses with Middle After School Band, he has no clue what Phil is doing these days

I always sensed in my heart of hearts, during those CHi v NY 90s affairs... Phil would come to NY to have his career die a slow death. At least he did what Walsh refused to... Suck so bad we got a lottery pick... then he actually drafted the right guy.

Phil's mistake was trying to build a team to compliment Melo. That has turned out to be 100% correct. But maybe the mess was worse than it even looked... Maybe PJ just took the money (and was told a stipulation was to keep Melo)... Who knows. We can only hope his legacy is more than ... Well, he is why we have Porzingis and Lance Thomas.

I waited to reserve judgement on the Melo situation until enough evidence was in... I never though he would
Put us over the top... I just thought being relevant and a borderline playoff team was better than what we had for years before he came... Same with PJ... He turned over the roster, cleared cap space, and I will see what this team looks like by this time next year.... He looks poised to be yet another major failure... But I will see what he does this trade deadline, then again next July.

 

[mafra]

Agreed that was a failed plan although remember right before trading for Melo the team was 28-26(reeling some but above .500). You know how everyone was giddy this yr's trash team was 14-14 ABOUT A WEEK AGO?

Right before trading for Melo this team had hella assets and high water but...

The plan as you said was a fail because it was clear whore pipe dreaming and one we actually should have never entertained. If you're gonna hire D'Antoni then put a track meet team together(should have did what it took to move up to draft WestBrook) Chad Ford had him on a our Radar for a good 2 weeks. Since that didn't happen next order of business was do whatever it took to get him a point guard...since that didn't happen we should have tried to construct a team to beat a Lebron led team since we were willing to sacrifice assets. Nevertheless we still had breathing room through all of Walsh's mistakes to not go off the deep end for Melo.

Exactly. You don't bring in Dantoni unless PLaN-1 is to procur him a PG. not a stopgap guy like Duhon... A future PG. I felt it was insane to trade much of anything for Melo bc he was an impending free agent... If the dope was too stupid to realize he could just walk here that summer and have a good team, with young assets, then he wasn't the guy you want anyway. But in steps Dolan and sells the farm!!!

I never thought that team had anything sustainable. Gallinari and Chandler were decent but nothing special, Mozgov was OK, and Amar'e was a ticking time bomb... Sure, would we have found Linsanity with that core group? Could we have been like a TOr or an ATL? Add a West or a Milsap and be halfway decent?

The killer was Dolan emptying all the assets... Knicks could have dealt for Chris Paul with those guys. So, yeah... Melo deserves all the blame bc he forced NYK to make a deal... Then came here and failed miserably. Just stupid... No reason to force it...
But we should have called his bluff and been prepared to lose him to BKLN. But... This wasn't about BBall... Dolan's ego wouldn't allow a competitor in his own market beat him and so he sold the farm. We always need to remember that and blame Dolan.

99 out of 100 times I take Melo over Felton, Gallonari, Chandler, Mozgov... But... Not having those 4 to trade to build around Melo and Amar'e was the killer.... Then getting stuck with Amar'e when we had the amnesty chip was the death kneel.

 

[Broadway]

I always sensed in my heart of hearts, during those CHi v NY 90s affairs... Phil would come to NY to have his career die a slow death. At least he did what Walsh refused to... Suck so bad we got a lottery pick... then he actually drafted the right guy.

Phil's mistake was trying to build a team to compliment Melo. That has turned out to be 100% correct. But maybe the mess was worse than it even looked... Maybe PJ just took the money (and was told a stipulation was to keep Melo)... Who knows. We can only hope his legacy is more than ... Well, he is why we have Porzingis and Lance Thomas.

I waited to reserve judgement on the Melo situation until enough evidence was in... I never though he would
Put us over the top... I just thought being relevant and a borderline playoff team was better than what we had for years before he came... Same with PJ... He turned over the roster, cleared cap space, and I will see what this team looks like by this time next year.... He looks poised to be yet another major failure... But I will see what he does this trade deadline, then again next July.

Hindsight much? That was never his plan, the plan was playoffs which he touted right at season's begin, last yr. Phil also admitted he would have drafted Okafor. Phil is a classic case of moving goal post gming hence the results.


The stipulation is heavily in play, which means once again what kind of GM is Phil?

 

[mafra]

Hindsight much? That was never his plan, the plan was playoffs which he touted right at season's begin. Phil also admitted he would have drafted Okafor. Phil is a classic case of moving goal post gming hence the results.


The stipulation is heavily in play, which means once again what kind of GM is Phil?

So far PJ is a terrible GM. But, winners have a knack for "accidentally" backing into a good thing. He did give away Shump and JR... Smart move... Who knows if we win 5 more games if we kept them...

I mean... You really couldn't pick wrong at 4... KAT, Okafor, PORZ... All solid. Even Winslow is proving me wrong... Would have been nice at 4 too. Mudiay is hurt now (was hurt in China).... That pick or WCS might have been the only other moves at 4 that would've meant PJ was a bigger failure.

But... I liked Larkin in College. He was hurt rookie year. Calderon was a solid PG his entire career. Lethal 3 point shooter. Outstanding assists:to ratio... We got 2 second rounders (remember GSW and SA got game-changers in the second round), and I felt Dalembert was 60% of what TC was. That trade blew up in our face... But I thought there was sound logic to why the move was made (especially given the toxic attitude TC brought that year and how Hibbert ate him alive the year before)....

Anyway. This is just 1 example of the opposite. I don't blame PJ for a move that didn't work out bc at the time I understood the move. I won't complain after the fact bc it turned out poorly... At the time, I felt we brought in a young and an old PG, who were better than what we had... Could compete for the job and meant we didn't put all our eggs in one basket... An upgrade over what we had...
And we needed a PG...something we have failed to address in the past... We got a "steal" in the draft and took a reach on another athletic
(Defensive) Wing. We dumped Fatty Felton... And brought in a serviceable C. Sometime... You blame the players... Look at TC this year... He looks done.

PJ did what he could. Maybe Melo was forced on him. He brought in a PG-SG-C he felt comimented his star... Did he want Melo? Was afraid he would lose him for nada? Was hoping having Melo would attract other players? IDK.

But... Melo could only get to second round of playoffs with a roster Dirk won a title with. So, not only was keeping Melo a mistake... But specifically building around him was another mistake.

 

[mafra]

"He's tough. I mean, he's tough," Anthony said of the 5-foot-9 Thomas. "Little guy with big heart out there. Hard to stay in front of him, got to stay in front of him. Draws a lot of attention. If he don't have it with the way that they space the court, when guys (are) making shots, it's kind of tough to kind of stop him."



Before the game, Fisher agreed with Anthony, who recently said the players needed to want to win more. "For sure," Fisher said. "The players are the ones that have to make the plays. We can create game plans, strategies, coverages, etcetera, but when the game starts it's really those guys that have to get it done."

 

[tiger0330]

Amen... Riley revamped MIA post LJ in 1 year. He signs Whiteaide and we get Langston and Lopez. Ouch.

If the Knicks had managed to keep Riley as President and GM we wouldn't be in the mess we're in. One of the great dealmakers in the NBA.

Excellent discussion Mafra and Broadway, enjoyed it.

 

[DrB]

Speechless and nothing to add. The forum has summed it up on this thread to perfection. Leaving for Florida and I will not purchase NBA TV as watching the Knicks is not worth the price. TYPING A MESSAGE just IMPROVED. I will watch on my computer period. MSG is not available in Vero Beach.

 

[jimkcchief88]

It's not Melo's fault PJAx thought his d league backcourt was really a NBA backcourt

 

[The Dragon]

one thought on this game, since we have two 7 footers and huge SF in Melo, and since the Celtics have no tall people inside at all, why didn't we used this huge advantage against them. Robin is a decent inside scorer, Melo is very good inside of course, and KP can't miss from close range (well, more or less)......

 

[tiger0330]

one thought on this game, since we have two 7 footers and huge SF in Melo, and since the Celtics have no tall people inside at all, why didn't we used this huge advantage against them. Robin is a decent inside scorer, Melo is very good inside of course, and KP can't miss from close range (well, more or less)......

Look at the KOL home page and read that article about Fishers coaching. I really wish they would dump that triangle for good but as long as PJ is around they're going to stick with it. Too many things have to go right with that offense for me, you have to have the right players, they have to have high bball iqs, you need to be in the right spots and it takes takes a ton of practice to perfect. Let's see how stubborn Jackson is if the Knicks finish with less than 30 wins, whether he keeps that outdated triangle around.