Game Thread: New York Knicks vs Denver Nugets 1:00pm 2/7/2016

[Tkf]

PGs are the QB of NBA. This is why they are absolutely necessary and why Forwards and Centers flounder without one... How many great F/C won without a PG?

KP and Mudiay are both special... Both have flaws... The mistake last draft was Grant (or Fisher for not playing JG)...

Knicks in full tank mode... A shame... A swoon will certainly scare away any potential free agents...

This was a terrible loss... Another bad start and another terrible 4th... This is the game Melo needs to take over down the stretch... We didn't lose bc Mudiay made plays (he was 6-18)... We lost bc Melo failed to make his imprint. We can only pray Melo asks PJ to trade him.

first of all what is so special about porzingis, to me he is more of a novelty player now. can get hot hit some jumpers fly over peoples back(which is a foul) and get a rebound, but his game has so many flaws I refuse to call that special.... the same with mudiay, he is not special now either. But I do like mudiay much better because I know what he is, he is a PG, and plays exaclty the way you want one to play.He does have to fix a lot of holes in his game tho. Both are a work in progress with mudiay needing a lot less work to become a great PG.. than porzingis to become whatever he is supposed to be.. I don't know.

I have no clue what porzingis is... and I am not trying to be mean or nasty about it....

And the knicks are not in tank mode, if so, they would be playing Grant every minute of every game... they are a veteran team, that was put together to make the playoffs.. they lack a lot of talent, but they do play hard and play fundamental ball, they are just limited.. and what would the knicks tank for? Denver owns their pick!!

It is a terrible loss for a good team.. knicks are a good team, and denver has beat some good teams this year, including the Warriors which blew the knicks into another universe..

you lost because Mudiay did make plays, and the nuggets starting 5 dominated from the start... put this on carmelo all you want, but this is why some of us like myself hated the trade.. gallo on the knicks( the real gallo) right now would be a better fit and carmelo...

I bet knicks fans would give a kidney to have gallo, mudiay, jokic and barton over this motley crew..... but when you sell your soul to sign a guy who has never been an elite talent and fans defend that move to their graves.. this is what you get.. I hope carmelo doesn't waive his no trade clause and just drains every penny out of phil and dolans dumb azzes as he ages and his game starts to decline...

a 35 year old carmelo collecting 25 mil from a knicks team is going to be priceless to watch..and yes I am bitter, never has one player and owner made me dislike a team so much, and this is from someone who tooted for this team for over 35 years..

 

[mafra]

Forget recruiting free agents next summer... Best thing is to be lousy next year and snag another young stud in the draft.. Play all the young guys and build a team to win with KP in 3-5 years... Melo is done as a star... At best he would serve now as the third best player in a title team... PJ should do everything in his power to trade Melo for Irving...

Convince Melo he needs to let him trade him bc the plan is now to rebuild... Have Melo beg his buddies in LaC, CLE, Mia to plead with their ownership that Melo is the missing piece...

Conley isn't going to mean anything more than us being a 47 win team and second round playoff squad...

We need draft picks and young assets...

Still. As much as Melo was a fool to demand that NYK surrender 3/4ths their roster to come to NYK 3 months earlier... Biting off his nose to spite his face... Ownership and management still could've built a winner.. They messed up the Amare situation... Wasted amnesty in Billups... Failed to draft Faired or Draymond Green... So... The blame should be spread around equally. I mean, we gave away Zach Randolph for a player who was injured and never played here...we gave away a guy still a force in the league 8 years later... For nothing. That's on Walsh and Dolan... Melo and JAX just latest yahoos to discover that winning under Dolan is impossible.

But... Yes... For sure.. The Melo experiment was a faikure..

 

[mafra]

first of all what is so special about porzingis, to me he is more of a novelty player now. can get hot hit some jumpers fly over peoples back(which is a foul) and get a rebound, but his game has so many flaws I refuse to call that special.... the same with mudiay, he is not special now either. But I do like mudiay much better because I know what he is, he is a PG, and plays exaclty the way you want one to play.He does have to fix a lot of holes in his game tho. Both are a work in progress with mudiay needing a lot less work to become a great PG.. than porzingis to become whatever he is supposed to be.. I don't know.

I have no clue what porzingis is... and I am not trying to be mean or nasty about it....

And the knicks are not in tank mode, if so, they would be playing Grant every minute of every game... they are a veteran team, that was put together to make the playoffs.. they lack a lot of talent, but they do play hard and play fundamental ball, they are just limited.. and what would the knicks tank for? Denver owns their pick!!

It is a terrible loss for a good team.. knicks are a good team, and denver has beat some good teams this year, including the Warriors which blew the knicks into another universe..

you lost because Mudiay did make plays, and the nuggets starting 5 dominated from the start... put this on carmelo all you want, but this is why some of us like myself hated the trade.. gallo on the knicks( the real gallo) right now would be a better fit and carmelo...

I bet knicks fans would give a kidney to have gallo, mudiay, jokic and barton over this motley crew..... but when you sell your soul to sign a guy who has never been an elite talent and fans defend that move to their graves.. this is what you get.. I hope carmelo doesn't waive his no trade clause and just drains every penny out of phil and dolans dumb azzes as he ages and his game starts to decline...

a 35 year old carmelo collecting 25 mil from a knicks team is going to be priceless to watch..and yes I am bitter, never has one player and owner made me dislike a team so much, and this is from someone who tooted for this team for over 35 years..

Melo was a beast in that Western Conf battle vs LAkers... That guy was worth bringing here. Giving away Gallo, Chandler, Felton, Mozgov wasn't optimum but it wasn't the death kneel... It was foolish for Melo to Demand this, when he could've come here without a trade... That should've been a red flag... But if we amnestied Amare and used that money to sign Paul... Drafted Green and Faired... We could've survived the cost of the trade despite idiot Dolan taking control of the deal...

Our idiot owner is the one to blame. Simple as that.

As for KP. He is special. Tall. Has offensive game and plays Impactful defense. Every body in NBA (exec, coach, player, scout) notices this... It amazes me how some message board types still question it. Nobody wonders about the brow in NO... How bad is that team this year?

So... Let's just admit that we were all wrong on KP... The kid is a worthy top-4 pick...

But.. Like you... Rooting for this team since late 70s.. Having Dolan as our owner is painful. Makes me loathe them. I live in GSW country... Hard to see that, and then see what we are.

Melo aged quickly here... What a shocker... But compared to what NYK was from 2000-2010... At least we were relevant... This is why he was retained... We didn't have many picks anyway... We are losers bc our owner is a loser.

 

[T.O Knick]

ummm does this coach, organization and these players understand the Knicks don't have their draft pick this year?

Even some media implying Knicks looking ahead to the draft..WHY?????

Do they all forget how Grunwald sold the farm for the future HOF Andrea "no balls" Bargnani

 

[mafra]

ummm does this coach, organization and these players understand the Knicks don't have their draft pick this year?

Even some media implying Knicks looking ahead to the draft..WHY?????

Do they all forget how Grunwald sold the farm for the future HOF Andrea "no balls" Bargnani

Only fitting we win draft lottery this year and TOR gets Simmons. So NYK would that be...

This is exactly why this two week plummet should have Melo amiable to a trade and PHil to break it all down.

If Melo won't waive his no-trade... Then let him wither away on a rebuilding team... Wiiams, Affalo, Calderon, Lopez, Gallo should all be be shopped tonight. We must build for 2019... Not to hope we catch lift inning in a pen cap and make a run with Melo in 2017

 

[RunningJumper]

This was the worst loss of the season for me maybe. Not overall, but I was hoping they'd get back on track like they were for most of January after a few losses and injuries. They weren't amazing in January, but the progress was evident. It didn't even seem like false hope. They were playing ball the right way, not just guys getting hot several games like players do who usually don't in this league. Melo is still playing great team ball, but his shot is not always on. I really thought they were on their way to make the Playoffs, now it's gonna be much tougher.

 

[mafra]

Injuries to LT and Melo were crippling... Then, Fisher somehow managed Williams out of his crucial role... 3 important offenses pieces simply evaporated the last 2 weeks... AA, JC, LG can't pick up the slack... KP hit a wall... Fisher refuses to develop Gant. It's really that simple.

 

[jimkcchief88]

Mudiay making Broadway's argument in favor of him from a couple nights ago look real good. Mudiay is 6 for 17 from the floor and 1 for 4 from the free throw line, but he has made plays in the 4th quarter while our guys have laid a big fat egg.

That's one thing me and Broadway agree on Mudiay>KP6

 

[tiger0330]

Injuries to LT and Melo were crippling... Then, Fisher somehow managed Williams out of his crucial role... 3 important offenses pieces simply evaporated the last 2 weeks... AA, JC, LG can't pick up the slack... KP hit a wall... Fisher refuses to develop Gant. It's really that simple.

Then by your thinking after the ASG the Knicks could turn this around. Melo is back, LT will be, DWill has played though less effectively lately and JC is also back and playing well.

I hope so there are enough games to still make the playoffs.

 

[htr10]

That's one thing me and Broadway agree on Mudiay>KP6

I vehemently disagree. Porzingis went for 21 points, 13 rebounds, and 2 blocks shooting 43% from the floor. The encouraging part is that based on most people's accounts he put up these numbers without playing all that 'well'. He is a guy who if used as the focal point of an offense could potentially put up MVP-type numbers, especially when paired with what he does defensively.

This franchise just needs to survive this season without screwing things up further. Melo is 31 with a surgically repaired knee that continues to cause him pain, but he is still an all-star caliber player, whether people like him or not. When no impact player wants to come here again this offseason, both Melo and our front office need to come together and realize it makes no sense for him to finish out his contract with us. Once we move him, added with the fact we actually have a 1st round pick two drafts from now, we can start making a team again.

 

[Tkf]

Melo was a beast in that Western Conf battle vs LAkers... That guy was worth bringing here. Giving away Gallo, Chandler, Felton, Mozgov wasn't optimum but it wasn't the death kneel... It was foolish for Melo to Demand this, when he could've come here without a trade... That should've been a red flag... But if we amnestied Amare and used that money to sign Paul... Drafted Green and Faired... We could've survived the cost of the trade despite idiot Dolan taking control of the deal...

Our idiot owner is the one to blame. Simple as that.

As for KP. He is special. Tall. Has offensive game and plays Impactful defense. Every body in NBA (exec, coach, player, scout) notices this... It amazes me how some message board types still question it. Nobody wonders about the brow in NO... How bad is that team this year?

So... Let's just admit that we were all wrong on KP... The kid is a worthy top-4 pick...

But.. Like you... Rooting for this team since late 70s.. Having Dolan as our owner is painful. Makes me loathe them. I live in GSW country... Hard to see that, and then see what we are.

Melo aged quickly here... What a shocker... But compared to what NYK was from 2000-2010... At least we were relevant... This is why he was retained... We didn't have many picks anyway... We are losers bc our owner is a loser.

I always said Dolan was the biggest idiot owner in all of sports.. but this one is on PHIL, he took over witgh supposedly complete autonomy, so this is on him...

As far as carmelo, dude was never a STAR, he was an allstar and a one dimensional player, who was inefficient at that dimension. Can't keep pointing to one series vs the lakers where he was inspired to play hard vs kobe. they still lost.. I look at the series vs Utah when he had home court advantage and lost to the deron williams led Jazz, and they also lost one series to the clippers another series they underachieved. carmelo never fooled me, and I hated the trade from day one..

do you know since he came to NY they were only better than denver just one season? and Denver set a franchise winning win total of 57 I think when he left.. This dude has always been a clown and a fake star.. He is IMO a franchise killer.. a greedy self centered jerk....and he and dolan deserve each other..

And that trade to get him was horrible, just think of the picks we gave up? and yes I would love to have gallo and chandler back on this team now with some picks and young players... why not? I would swap teams with denver in a heartbeat..And that includes porzingis, I think that kid Jokic has a chance to be just as good if not better..

As for KP. He is special. Tall. Has offensive game and plays Impactful defense. Every body in NBA (exec, coach, player, scout) notices this... It amazes me how some message board types still question it. Nobody wonders about the brow in NO... How bad is that team this year?

being tall and hitting a few jumpers doesn't make you special, he does get some blocks, but he fouls a lot and is often out of position defensively. A lot of tall guys in the league can do those things..

It is questioned because he has shown very little skill in the paint, he doesn't make a lot of shots close to the basket, and really has no moves, no jump hook etc..

Anthony Davis is a different story, please don't bring him up... now that is a guy who is special and if you watch him enough you would understand. his team does suck and i have placed some of that on him, but when you look at his numbers he is literally doing everything that he can, injuries to a lot of key guys including davis himself and lack of depth has hurt that team..

Porzingis is not in Davis universe!

 

[Broadway]

Then by your thinking after the ASG the Knicks could turn this around. Melo is back, LT will be, DWill has played though less effectively lately and JC is also back and playing well.

I hope so there are enough games to still make the playoffs.

No matter the mathematics we have no shot of making the playoffs. Too many good and desperate teams on our schedule and we need too many teams to go on losing streaks like us. Not happening. Our schedule is gonna to trend back to being tough again soon and our record against winning teams this season is like 10-20. Kiss the playoffs goodbye we just officially blew it the past several weeks.

 

[Tkf]

I vehemently disagree. Porzingis went for 21 points, 13 rebounds, and 2 blocks shooting 43% from the floor. The encouraging part is that based on most people's accounts he put up these numbers without playing all that 'well'. He is a guy who if used as the focal point of an offense could potentially put up MVP-type numbers, especially when paired with what he does defensively.

This franchise just needs to survive this season without screwing things up further. Melo is 31 with a surgically repaired knee that continues to cause him pain, but he is still an all-star caliber player, whether people like him or not. When no impact player wants to come here again this offseason, both Melo and our front office need to come together and realize it makes no sense for him to finish out his contract with us. Once we move him, added with the fact we actually have a 1st round pick two drafts from now, we can start making a team again.

he had a pretty good 3rd quarter, the rest of the game was trash...he started off trash and finished quietly.. not a fluid game at all..

 

[Tkf]

Injuries to LT and Melo were crippling... Then, Fisher somehow managed Williams out of his crucial role... 3 important offenses pieces simply evaporated the last 2 weeks... AA, JC, LG can't pick up the slack... KP hit a wall... Fisher refuses to develop Gant. It's really that simple.

the knicks not developing grant is downright criminal!!!

 

[mafra]

"The Knicks traded Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov, a 2012 second-round pick (Quincy Miller), a 2013 second rounder (D-Leaguer Romero Osby), their 2014 first rounder (DEN dealt this pick to PHi - Saric for Koufas)... And the right to swap picks in 2016 and $3 million cash to Denver.

So, those draft picks better DEN Miller, Osby, Koufas... 3 swing and misses...

Also... Anthony Davis averaged 13 and 8 his rookie year. 1.2 blocks per game. Didn't shoot a 3... Shot 52% from the field and 75% from FT line. KP is averaging, basically, 13 and 8 with 1.9 blocks a game and is shooting 35% from downtown (42% from field and 85% from FT line)...

I'm not saying KP in 3 years will be what AD is now... But, rookie stats, are in the s and universe, no? Practically identical...

In 2010... Walsh traded away a lottery pick (hill) and a future 1st to HOU to dump 1 year contract if Jared Jeffires... Trying to get cap room for Lebron and Bosh... That pick the next year was a high one... But HOU grabbed Royce White... Draymond Green went at top of second round later that draft.

Melo has never lost a playoff series against a team that finished reg season with a worse record... He wasn't Lebron but he still was better than anything we had in the decade prior to his arrival...

Not Melo's or Walsh's fault out owner stepped in and sold the farm...

But... Quincy Miller, Saric, Osby, Felton, Chandler, Gallinari, Mozgov doesn't make us better than Melo... Would I take Gallinari at 10 Mil now over Melo at 22 mil? Sure. But... That's only bc Melo failed and the trade didn't work... Hindsight...

And Melo failed bc we failed to build a team after we made the trade... Drafting Shumpert over Faired? Bad luck since K.Leonard almost feel in our laps that draft. We amnesty Billups (not Amare)... We trade for Lowry instead of Bargnani?

We took Jordan Hill over DeRozan in the draft, no? Steph Curry went 7th, Hill 8th, DeRozan 9th...

Now, you could argue that if we selected the right guys... And then dealt Mozgov for 2 picks and chose wisely again... Sure... but... Look at DEN... 3 picks from is netted than nada.

 

[pat]

We are losers bc our owner is a loser.

I've been saying this for years and the only way this will change is with Dolan selling the team or forgetting about being hands on and PJ becoming everything he was supposed to be as a president and him being allowed to gut the management from the inside replacing everybody with capable people.

 

[paris401]

This franchise just needs to survive this season without screwing things up further. Melo is 31 with a surgically repaired knee that continues to cause him pain, but he is still an all-star caliber player, whether people like him or not. When no impact player wants to come here again this offseason, both Melo and our front office need to come together and realize it makes no sense for him to finish out his contract with us. Once we move him, added with the fact we actually have a 1st round pick two drafts from now, we can start making a team again.

so u are saying see ya in 17/18??? if we get a 'stud', a real stud in the 17 draft, u don't win immed in the nba, takes a year/two for everything/one to jell... so we are looking at 18/19/20 b4 we are contending... I'm going back to stamp collecting

 

[tiger0330]

"The Knicks traded Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov, a 2012 second-round pick (Quincy Miller), a 2013 second rounder (D-Leaguer Romero Osby), their 2014 first rounder (DEN dealt this pick to PHi - Saric for Koufas)... And the right to swap picks in 2016 and $3 million cash to Denver.

So, those draft picks better DEN Miller, Osby, Koufas... 3 swing and misses...

Also... Anthony Davis averaged 13 and 8 his rookie year. 1.2 blocks per game. Didn't shoot a 3... Shot 52% from the field and 75% from FT line. KP is averaging, basically, 13 and 8 with 1.9 blocks a game and is shooting 35% from downtown (42% from field and 85% from FT line)...

I'm not saying KP in 3 years will be what AD is now... But, rookie stats, are in the s and universe, no? Practically identical...

In 2010... Walsh traded away a lottery pick (hill) and a future 1st to HOU to dump 1 year contract if Jared Jeffires... Trying to get cap room for Lebron and Bosh... That pick the next year was a high one... But HOU grabbed Royce White... Draymond Green went at top of second round later that draft.

Melo has never lost a playoff series against a team that finished reg season with a worse record... He wasn't Lebron but he still was better than anything we had in the decade prior to his arrival...

Not Melo's or Walsh's fault out owner stepped in and sold the farm...

But... Quincy Miller, Saric, Osby, Felton, Chandler, Gallinari, Mozgov doesn't make us better than Melo... Would I take Gallinari at 10 Mil now over Melo at 22 mil? Sure. But... That's only bc Melo failed and the trade didn't work... Hindsight...

And Melo failed bc we failed to build a team after we made the trade... Drafting Shumpert over Faired? Bad luck since K.Leonard almost feel in our laps that draft. We amnesty Billups (not Amare)... We trade for Lowry instead of Bargnani?

We took Jordan Hill over DeRozan in the draft, no? Steph Curry went 7th, Hill 8th, DeRozan 9th...

Now, you could argue that if we selected the right guys... And then dealt Mozgov for 2 picks and chose wisely again... Sure... but... Look at DEN... 3 picks from is netted than nada.

Great post and recap of the Melo trade. I think they were saying you had to wait 5 years to evaluate this trade and it looks like no team won with it with sub .500 records 5 years later though the Knicks have gone slightly further in the playoffs with a second round exit while Denver has not made it out of the 1st.

Great game thread as well guys with the discussion of Mudiay and Porzingis.

 

[paris401]

I think they were saying you had to wait 5 years to evaluate this trade and it looks like no team won with it with sub .500 records 5 years later though the Knicks have gone slightly further in the playoffs with a second round exit while Denver has not made it out of the 1st. .

true..true...BUT... Denver is in the west... I think the west is slightly better then the east...

 

[Tkf]

"The Knicks traded Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov, a 2012 second-round pick (Quincy Miller), a 2013 second rounder (D-Leaguer Romero Osby), their 2014 first rounder (DEN dealt this pick to PHi - Saric for Koufas)... And the right to swap picks in 2016 and $3 million cash to Denver.<br>
<br>
So, those draft picks better DEN Miller, Osby, Koufas... 3 swing and misses...<br>
<br>
Also... Anthony Davis averaged 13 and 8 his rookie year. 1.2 blocks per game. Didn't shoot a 3... Shot 52% from the field and 75% from FT line. KP is averaging, basically, 13 and 8 with 1.9 blocks a game and is shooting 35% from downtown (42% from field and 85% from FT line)... <br>
<br>
I'm not saying KP in 3 years will be what AD is now... But, rookie stats, are in the s and universe, no? Practically identical...<br>
<br>
In 2010... Walsh traded away a lottery pick (hill) and a future 1st to HOU to dump 1 year contract if Jared Jeffires... Trying to get cap room for Lebron and Bosh... That pick the next year was a high one... But HOU grabbed Royce White... Draymond Green went at top of second round later that draft.<br>
<br>
Melo has never lost a playoff series against a team that finished reg season with a worse record... He wasn't Lebron but he still was better than anything we had in the decade prior to his arrival...<br>
<br>
Not Melo's or Walsh's fault out owner stepped in and sold the farm...<br>
<br>
But... Quincy Miller, Saric, Osby, Felton, Chandler, Gallinari, Mozgov doesn't make us better than Melo... Would I take Gallinari at 10 Mil now over Melo at 22 mil? Sure. But... That's only bc Melo failed and the trade didn't work... Hindsight...<br>
<br>
And Melo failed bc we failed to build a team after we made the trade... Drafting Shumpert over Faired? Bad luck since K.Leonard almost feel in our laps that draft. We amnesty Billups (not Amare)... We trade for Lowry instead of Bargnani?<br>
<br>
We took Jordan Hill over DeRozan in the draft, no? Steph Curry went 7th, Hill 8th, DeRozan 9th... <br>
<br>
Now, you could argue that if we selected the right guys... And then dealt Mozgov for 2 picks and chose wisely again... Sure... but... Look at DEN... 3 picks from is netted than nada.

you are trying the old banana in the tail pipe trick here with this post.. first of all you don't look at who denver took with the picks, you look at who is available unless you are certain the knicks take those players..

so in 2012 with the second round pick #38, the knicks would have had the choice of taking Khris Middleton or OH... Will Barton.. both are better than any guards on the knicks.
Now in 2013 with that pick the knicks could have taken Joffry Lauvergne, the same guy that dismantled the knicks yesterday!!

and don't get me started with 2014!!! the knicks could have had Jokic, the other Denver center who gave them the business yesterday, they could have had Garry Harris, zach lavine, Rodney hood, clint capella, TJ warren, all of these guys are good young talent..

now take these guys, any combination of that, along with Gallo, chandler and mozgov.. oh by the way denver got 2 first round picks for mozgov!!! and you don't think the knicks are in better position than they are now.. oh and add this, the knicks would have had a ton of cap space to go after a real star,not this bum we have right now....

The knicks LOST THIS TRADE.. Denver has been better than the knicks all but one year since this trade.. the knicks are a mess now, how did they win this trade?

and please stop with the AD stuff, I don't need stats to see that Davis was a different animal than porzingis.. please cut it out, but since you want to play that game..

Lets take one of the former knick rookie Darlings. Landry fields.. rookie year stats<br>10ppg/  6.5 boards/ 1.9 assist/ 1.0 steals shot 50% from the field.. 50 friggin %!!!!

lets compare him to this SG that came out a year earlier..9.9 ppg/ 3.2 rebounds per/ 1.1 steals/ 1.8 steals/ 40% from the field.

.want to know who this mysterious SG is? JAMES HARDEN..
TELL ME how did this turn out?;you just can't take stats like that and look at them in a vacuum

Melo has never lost a playoff series against a team that finished reg season with a worse record... He wasn't Lebron but he still was better than anything we had in the decade prior to his arrival...<br>

carmelo and the nuggets lost twice with home court advantage vs teams seeded lower than them, one team had the same exact record, the utah Jazz.. so again, you tried to slip one by there... carmelo has been a major bust in NY and Denver is in good shape...  also how will you feel if NY finished with a worse record than denver and The nuggets will take the knicks lottery pick?
do you still support the trade? and right now I would take gallo over carmelo in a heart beat, he and chandler with his surgically repaired hip.

Do you really think you were going to get away with a post like this? come on now