metrocard
Legend
So did Boris Diaw, but he blew up in Phoneix.
Here we go AGAIN: Reality Check
- Thread starter jimkcchief88
- Start date
So did Boris Diaw, but he blew up in Phoneix.
mafra
Legend
Amen. Let's not forget David Lee. Mike D'antoni demands that his BIGS shoot the midrange jumper. Imperative. Hit the open shot or else.
Lee, who averages 13 ppg in his career, was coached up, he worked hard and then he BREAKS OUT last season and averages 20 ppg in this SSOL system.
It happens.
NYKnuniversity
Benchwarmer
We didn't run the SSOL last year...but Lee killed it on the pick and pop, and your point still is completely valid. Lee did blow up last year as a result of D'Antoni's demands for a jumpshot COMBINED with his willingness to work hard and get better.
If players WANT to get better they will under D'Antoni it seems.
mafra
Legend
For sure. All the credit goes to David Lee for the effort and subsequent results. Hear he's working on adding a 3-point shot to his game. But IT never pushed him to expand his game.
Even if by default, D'ant deserves some credit for this. Lee is a better player having played for D"ant.
I think the same will be said of Raymond Felton. He'll be perfect for this system b/c he is so athletic, but I think Larry Brown has helped... Sort of like what Brown did for Chauncey Billups.
lilman_bklyn
Rotation player
Fast typing confused the two Scott's.... my fault... Scott Skiles made it only to the 1st round yes, but look at his team, he didn't have a team fit to make a run deep in the playoffs, especially with Bogut out. BUT at least he got all out of his team and took the 3rd seed to a game 7. What did D'antoni do? Bogut was a number 1 pick yea, so was Kwame Brown, whats ur point? Not all number 1's eventually perform, just doesnt work like that. Bogut but didn't perform like a possible real good center until SKiles took over. and he started averaging double doubles for a season. So my point still remains. The Milwaukee Bucks team from top to bottom Talent wise were not better than the Knicks talent wise. The difference came at coach and that is the reason why they had a successful year last season and we had the year we had these past 2 seasons. Plain and simple. But D'antoni dickhuggers like yourself will continue coddling this fool for whatever reason...
p0nder
Starter
I think that schooling of half court sets and defensive mindedness really broadened felton's understanding on defense. I think he will improve dramatically in a system that allows him to run the floor.
But I think he'll be a better player for his time in Charlotte, learning conventional wisdom out of one of the games more intensely defensive minded coaches. At either rate, he is a HUGE upgrade at the point as a guy that not only can run the pick n roll with an allstar, but will also be able to make his own shots and play defense on opposing guards.
Just imagine, no more watching Duhon throw up ugly looking shots or allowing his man to blow right past him to the bucket! That alone is worth watching. Everything that duhon and lee did last year, Amar'e and Felton will do this year, only 10X better with defensive effort to boot.
But I think he'll be a better player for his time in Charlotte, learning conventional wisdom out of one of the games more intensely defensive minded coaches. At either rate, he is a HUGE upgrade at the point as a guy that not only can run the pick n roll with an allstar, but will also be able to make his own shots and play defense on opposing guards.
Just imagine, no more watching Duhon throw up ugly looking shots or allowing his man to blow right past him to the bucket! That alone is worth watching. Everything that duhon and lee did last year, Amar'e and Felton will do this year, only 10X better with defensive effort to boot.
lilman_bklyn
Rotation player
So you guys are now in love with Felton but are gonna forget that the bumbling old fvck that is donnie walsh passed up on numerous point guards last year when that was our number one need. I am not living in the past, really i'm not lol, but i just find it so hard to believe that these two guys, d'antoni and Walsh get so many passes from you guys. I'm really trying to understand it. For every good thing this team has done in the past 2 years they have done like 5 bad things... but you guys still just gloss over it and jump straight to the good. puzzles me
smokes
Huge Member
One thing I can agree with you on here for sure. But still hindsight is 20/20 when it comes to drafting. Who knew BJ would blow up to be such a sick PG? Not many people considering how far he dropped. It wasn't just us that screwed up that pick. And yeah it didn't work out great but we did get TD who was a steal.
But why not look at the positive right now, it's a new start no more tanking, a decent enough roster to maybe make the playoffs (I think we will), may as well get behind the team.
p0nder
Starter
I dunno lilman, maybe I'm just not as critical as you are? I'm not sure where our differences come from. I feel that after waiting around for LeBron James, Dwade etc etc to come here many NYer's are pissed off and unhappy with the whole miami thing.
I'm sure that clouds a lot of people's judgment in this. But Walsh never said this was about one player or certain players we were after. It was about rebuilding in a less then conventional fashion as the conventional methods have not worked here for some time.
Personally I think we are better off with felton at the pg rather then a rookie because we are working with a known quantity at the most important position in D'ant's offense. What other point guards were available that you would of ratherus pick up? Allen Iverson?
I'm sure that clouds a lot of people's judgment in this. But Walsh never said this was about one player or certain players we were after. It was about rebuilding in a less then conventional fashion as the conventional methods have not worked here for some time.
Personally I think we are better off with felton at the pg rather then a rookie because we are working with a known quantity at the most important position in D'ant's offense. What other point guards were available that you would of ratherus pick up? Allen Iverson?
Real NY Baller
Starter
Don?t be surprise if A.I. is picked up? Dolan and Isaiah are in talks and it seems like they are going to be making a big move soon. Sounds good to me?
And, Walsh was the main person who started all this LBJ hype. And, it was the main reason why most people didn?t grab at his throat for tanking the last 2 season. He mentioned Bron numerous times the last few years and had the public thinking he was coming here. He said nothing about rebuilding from scratch?
And, Walsh was the main person who started all this LBJ hype. And, it was the main reason why most people didn?t grab at his throat for tanking the last 2 season. He mentioned Bron numerous times the last few years and had the public thinking he was coming here. He said nothing about rebuilding from scratch?
Find one quote where LBJ by name was mentioned before July 1 as a guy we were definitely going to get.
I dare you.
It didn't happen because that's what we like to call "tampering".
What Walsh ACTUALLY said, at his initial press conference was that he would get us under the cap and try to retain cap flexibility.
Real NY Baller
Starter
I'm not looking for nothing, because it's not that serious to me. I've heard him say we will be under cap so we can have a chance at getting LeBron when he's a free agent in 2010, how is that tampering?
LJ4ptplay
Starter
KBlack is right. He never said that. Never. It's against NBA Rules. You never heard him say that because he never did. Only the media talked about Lebron. Donnie only talked about rebuilding through free agency as the fastest way to get the Knicks to a contending level.
lilman_bklyn
Rotation player
You are right he never said it once... but don't get naive now... he was eluding to it from that first press conference. There was no doubt in no ones minds what his plans were when he came up with his "2010 plan" ... Real NY Baller may be a little off base with this one, but the fact remains that Donnie Walsh put that bug in the ear of all Knicks Fans and made all Knicks Fans believe that he had some kind of inside track to Lebron. Of course he couldn't say it, of course he didn't say it... but that doesn't mean that was not his intentions.
OF COURSE IT IS IN HIS INTENTIONS!
If your goal is not to get the best talent, you aren't even coming close to being a real GM. But the fact is, all Walsh said/promised was that we would have cap flexibility. The NY Media, infamous for blowing everything up, created the LeBron buzz.
Walsh stated over and over that the 2010 plan was never about any one single player, it was about creating a team. Did he go after LeBron, Wade, Bosh, all the top guys? OF COURSE HE DID! HE WOULD NOT BE DOING HIS JOB IF HE DIDN'T! But he never said he was going to go out and get LeBron, he said he would get cap flexibility so we would be in the running for the top tier free agents (something Isiah never would have had us doing). He did his job, and landed a top PF.
lilman_bklyn
Rotation player
LOL and the Naiveness shines through. His goal main goal only goal was to get Lebron and Maybe Wade. He overpaid Amare to make sure that happened, and it didn't happen. He realized the error of his ways half way through the season and decided to go and try get room for 2 max players, he traded away their number one pick and for the most part to future number ones so they could get that second max player... well the only thing he ended up doing is getting a nice PF in the process, something that the Knicks did not need to begin with. Yes he's better than what the Knicks had, however if you are going to tell me, the Knicks diluted their team these past two years because they were striving to get cap flex for Amare i'll laugh at you.
Lebron James was the only thing on Donnie Walsh's brain, Lebron James is the Pipe Dream that Walsh sold Dolan to get this job
LJ4ptplay
Starter
So you're saying it would have been better to keep Crawford and Z-Bo and not have a chance at any free agents this year.
I disagree.
The Knicks diluted their team for cap flexibility. Period.
Without cap flexibility, we would never have even been in the discussion for any top-tier free agent in the first place. You ever hear the phrase "You have to be in it to win it"? Walsh made sure we were "in it"...It sucks he didn't land one of the top 2 guys in free agency, but at the very least we were able to make a legitimate pitch and offer. With Isiah, we would be stuck with nothing at all.
My thought is that Walsh caught wind of what was probably going to happen in Miami. He paid STAT what he did for a few reasons:
1) A last ditch attempt to attract LBJ
2) To not get shut out of free agency a la the New Jersey Nets
I think Walsh was fairly certain that LBJ, Wade and Bosh were all going to Miami...and you know what? Walsh had a damn good back up plan...
Within minutes of losing LBJ, he made a play for a (hopefully) superstar-in-the-making, a guy who got 14 and 5 in 25 MPG last year and a rough and tumble interior defender.
Walsh did what he had to do to get us under the cap and at least have a horse in the race...Like I said, if he didn't try to get the best talent possible, he would not be doing his job. The NY Media sold us LeBron, Walsh sold us cap flexibility and a chance at LBJ/Wade.
I've said over and over and over on this board that the most important thing for us was to get out of salary cap hell. Isiah had us in a situation where we would have been stuck with Z-Bo, Craw and Jerome James for the next few years, handcuffed and unable to do anything. Now, at the very least we have flexibility and the ability to make some manuever at some point. If you don't see the obvious benefit of being under the cap in this league, even if you don't get your #1 target in free agency, then you have epically failed as anybody with any knowledge of the NBA.