Who is our best young player?

[Paul1355]

:agreed::agreed::agreed:

The last two seasons Wilson Chandler prove to be the best young player
on our Knick Team.
We all watch Wilson Chandler perform well consistently on both sides of the court.
u also could add being versatile to perform at 3 different positions for us.
Wilson Chandler been showing (us) Knick fans for the past two seasons
he have the tools/talents to be a star SF in the Eastern conference if
given 30 minutes playingtime at the 3 spot.
Granger/Deng/Josh/Gerald/Beasly/and Iggy performance at the 3 spot
were par with Wilson Chandler at the 2 spot.
And Chandler is not a SG in any of his skills/talents.


Being a Gallo-fan or a Randolph-fan is all good for the Knicks and our KO Forum
but all the fan-hype dont win games.
Both players prove they are not BUST
they are bench-players with alot of flaws to work on.
The two players (Gallo/Randolph) also prove (within 2 seasons) they are
not 30 minute players to depend on in a lineup for a NBA WIN.

I was not happy over the signing of Duhon/Roberson.
I wanted a SG that offseason to replace Crawford (Mayo).
Duhon coming off the bench for 20 mpg next season, being in lineups
with pure SG-Carter/Reddick and pure SF-Lewis/Pietrus.....
Duhon will actually add a deeper depth chart to the Orlando Magic. Why?
b/c Duhon is a 18 to 24 minute bench player a night.
Plus all of the Orlando Magics players perform at their original position
they were drafted as in the NBA.

Chandler has to stay healthy or he will never be above Gallo and Randolph

And you really think Randolph, who put up numbers of 11ppg, 6.5 rebounds, and 1.5 blocks per 21 min is a bench player???

Those numbers make him a starter on any team, Don Nelson's Nuggets is just run with handcuffs, like Nate Mcmillan's blazers are. Granted that i would rather have those coaches than Mike D, but atleast we can make these payers feel a little free and excited about being on this team.

Randolph and Gallo can be great players at any moment and Chandler can as well, BUT Chandler has the most to prove.

Chandler has to stay healthy, he has to consistently slash to the hoop and shoot mid range shots, and he has to stop shooting three's at a high rate, which he did at the end of the season before the injury.

His bball IQ has to improve, he has to work on fundamentals, like staying on the court and not stepping out of bounce every game!

His dumb IQ can hinder his development to being an all star which his talent and body can allow him to be.

 

[keyser soze]

This thread needs some video for Gallo fans and those of y'all that didn't check the validity of what I was saying about this boy's skeeeills..

He will be an All-Star, on our our team or on somebody else's.. I'll be sick if he's included in a trade.



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Everything I've said about his game is displayed (i.e. the Shamgawd especially) in these highlights, and all of this footage is only from his first 28 games, along with Summer-league and his brief Euro-league stint.

Wake up haters! He's the future.. :gony:

P.S. At 5:02 he freeks this Euro-league cat w the nasty dare I say jordanesque inside-out dribble. No handle?!? There it is.. Rewind it a couple times.. Let it marinate, ya fackin haters!

WTF . . . do you remember making this thread:

http://www.knicksonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8646

In which you wrote this:

After taking a look at our salary cap numbers and that of NO, I'm fairly confident a deal for Paul will happen eventually. It will ofcourse have to involve Okafor.

Being in a rebuilding mode, they will want to get his salary off their books badly. We will have to do the Curry swap w Okafor, then piece together the players to make the salaries match up. They need to get what they can for Paul since he wants out and we have the right mix of players to help them create cap space and rebuild.

Do I think Paul is worth Gallo, Randolph and Curry? Yes.. Will we need to give them that combo of players to make the deal happen? Maybe. As bad as it sounds to most of you, when all of the chips are down, if this is what NO wants for Paul, Donnie may pull the trigger.

If we gave them:

Curry
AR
Gallo
Azzy
Douglas
..and cash

Our starting lineup would look something like this:

Paul
Walker
Chandler
STAT
Okafor

Bench: Felton, Fields, Rautins, Mozgof, Ewing Jr. and Jordan

Remember there is no guarantee either Gallo and AR will be as good as we all hope. Paul is already great, and young. We'd still be pretty darn good and very athletic without Gallo and AR. I realize that Walker as a starter is a bit scary, but when Paul was on NO he had Morris Peterson in the back court with him. Peterson spotted up for threes, never drove, and played mediocre defense. Can Walker out play Peterson in the backcourt w Paul? I think he can.

Start getting ready, cause a deal involving both of the belovedz might actually happen

 

[ronoranina]

And your point is...

The prospect of getting Paul obviously makes things difficult for me when it comes to Gallo..

While I love Gallo as a player if we had to give him up for Paul, not Melo, it would be very hard but ultimately I'd okay with it. That's what it is..

Paul is one of my favorite players of all-time. He leaves me in awe when I watch him play. PG's like him come along once in a generation. I love him as a player. Gallo is very close to my heart. I stand by everything I've posted concerning him as our best young prospect. But I still think if you can get Paul, you do that deal.

That's basically where I stand.. Satisfied or is that too complicated for ya??

 

[keyser soze]

And your point is...

The prospect of getting Paul obviously makes things difficult for me when it comes to Gallo..

While I love Gallo as a player if we had to give him up for Paul, not Melo, it would be very hard but ultimately I'd okay with it. That's what it is..

Paul is one of my favorite players of all-time. He leaves me in awe when I watch him play. PG's like him come along once in a generation. I love him as a player. Gallo is very close to my heart. I stand by everything I've posted concerning him as our best young prospect. But I still think if you can get Paul, you do that deal.

That's basically where I stand.. Satisfied or is that too complicated for ya??

1) It's not complicated at all, rather, it's simply devoid of any logic or reasoning if you assume that both Carmelo and CP3 are top ten NBA players. In your world, One player (Chris Paul) warrants gutting the roster of a young, promising team (in particular, trading away the two best young players the team has to offer) while the other player (Carmelo) doesn't even warrant giving up just one of them (admittedly the best one in your eyes - Gallinari). I get it. It just doesn't make any sense.

2) As to the bolded, perhaps. But consider this (I know I've posted this on this message board before): When is the last time an all-pro point guard lead his team to an NBA title as the best player on his team? I can't think of anyone since Isiah Thomas did it way back in 1990. Now, ask yourself when the last time a dominant wing scorer lead his team to an NBA title (Kobe and MJ alone have won 11 of the last 20 NBA championships) . . . My point is that the modern NBA is a dominant wing player's game. Hall of fame caliber point guards are way down on the list of necessities on modern NBA championship teams. Consider the Lakers. They have won 5 of the last 11 NBA championships with Derek Fisher predominantly running the point. I'm just saying . . . the need for an all-pro point guard on a championship team is verifiably overrated.

 

[ronoranina]

1) It's not complicated at all, rather, it's simply devoid of any logic or reasoning if you assume that both Carmelo and CP3 are top ten NBA players. In your world, One player (Chris Paul) warrants gutting the roster of a young, promising team (in particular, trading away the two best young players the team has to offer) while the other player (Carmelo) doesn't even warrant giving up just one of them (admittedly the best one in your eyes - Gallinari). I get it. It just doesn't make any sense.

2) As to the bolded, perhaps. But consider this (I know I've posted this on this message board before): When is the last time an all-pro point guard lead his team to an NBA title as the best player on his team? I can't think of anyone since Isiah Thomas did it way back in 1990. Now, ask yourself when the last time a dominant wing scorer lead his team to an NBA title (Kobe and MJ alone have won 11 of the last 20 NBA championships) . . . My point is that the modern NBA is a dominant wing player's game. Hall of fame caliber point guards are way down on the list of necessities on modern NBA championship teams. Consider the Lakers. They have won 5 of the last 11 NBA championships with Derek Fisher predominantly running the point. I'm just saying . . . the need for an all-pro point guard on a championship team is verifiably overrated.

It does if you value Paul much more than Melo, which I do. I think Paul is better than Melo and brings more overall to a team. Melo is a bit overrated.

I think you are forgetting the Lakers and their dominate PG and all of the championships they won in the 80's. You should consider them.

 

[ronoranina]

Food for thought:

The Lakers compiled a 60?22 record in the regular season and reached the 1980 NBA Finals,[22] in which they faced the Philadelphia 76ers, who were led by forward Julius Erving. The Lakers took a 3?2 lead in the series, but Abdul-Jabbar, who averaged 33 points a game in the series,[23] sprained his ankle in Game 5 and could not play in Game 6.[20] Paul Westhead decided to start Johnson at center in Game 6; Johnson recorded 42 points, 15 rebounds, seven assists, and three steals in a 123?107 win, while playing guard, forward, and center at different times during the game.[20] Johnson became the only rookie to win the NBA Finals MVP award,[20] and his clutch performance is still regarded as one of the finest in NBA history.[5][24][25] He also became one of four players to win NCAA and NBA championships in consecutive years.[26]

That's another time a PG LEAD HIS TEAM to a championship..

 

[keyser soze]

It does if you value Paul much more than Melo, which I do. I think Paul is better than Melo and brings more overall to a team. Melo is a bit overrated.

I think you are forgetting the Lakers and their dominate PG and all of the championships they won in the 80's. You should consider them.

1) Even if I agreed that Melo "is a bit overrated" (I don't), it still would be quite hard to imagine how someone would even begin to justify the large discrepency in your positions but I digress . . .

2) Again, on the bolded, I used the words "modern NBA" for a reason. The last 20 years have been dominated by Wing players, and to a lesser extent, big men. Kobe has 5 rings, Jordan has 6, Wade has 1, and Olajuwon, Duncan, and Shaq (obviously overlapping with Kobe and Wade) have the rest (With the notable exception being the 1 championship won by Larry Brown's Pistons). Again, a hall of fame point guard hasn't lead his team to an NBA title since 1990. I'd be willing to wager quite a bit of money that, going forward, a dominant wing scorer will lead his team to a championship again before a dominant point guard will (Kobe, Lebron, or Wade, anyone?). We'll see.

 

[keyser soze]

Food for thought:

The Lakers compiled a 60–22 record in the regular season and reached the 1980 NBA Finals,[22] in which they faced the Philadelphia 76ers, who were led by forward Julius Erving. The Lakers took a 3–2 lead in the series, but Abdul-Jabbar, who averaged 33 points a game in the series,[23] sprained his ankle in Game 5 and could not play in Game 6.[20] Paul Westhead decided to start Johnson at center in Game 6; Johnson recorded 42 points, 15 rebounds, seven assists, and three steals in a 123–107 win, while playing guard, forward, and center at different times during the game.[20] Johnson became the only rookie to win the NBA Finals MVP award,[20] and his clutch performance is still regarded as one of the finest in NBA history.[5][24][25] He also became one of four players to win NCAA and NBA championships in consecutive years.[26]

That's another time a PG LEAD HIS TEAM to a championship..

1) Uhm, apparently you didn't realize the logical fallacy in your argument when you acknowledged that Johnson started at CENTER in game 6 (lol)

2) Again, "modern NBA" is what I wrote. With the rules being what they are (namely that perimeter defenders can't really hand-check wing scorers without getting called for fouls anymore), the NBA is CURRENTLY, first and foremost, a dominant wing players league.

 

[ronoranina]

1) Even if I agreed that Melo "is a bit overrated" (I don't), it still would be quite hard to imagine how someone would even being to justify the large discrepency in your positions but I digress . . .

2) Again, on the bolded, I used the words "modern NBA" for a reason. The last 20 years have been dominated by Wing players, and to a lesser extent, big men. Kobe has 5 rings, Jordan has 6, Wade has 1, and Olajuwon, Duncan, and Shaq (obviously overlapping with Kobe and Wade) have the rest (With the notable exception being the 1 championship won by Larry Brown's Pistons). Again, a hall of fame point guard hasn't lead his team to an NBA title since 1990. I'd be willing to wager quite a bit of money that, going forward, a dominant wing scorer will lead his team to a championship again before a dominant point guard will (Kobe, Lebron, or Wade, anyone?). We'll see.

Fair enough. I'm actually inclined to agree w you concerning wing players and the likelihood of winning it all w one. I probably wouldn't take that bet.

There's just something about Paul though. I just have this strange feeling that he's going to be a part of a championship team sooner or later.. I'd like it to happen w the Knicks, as pie in the sky as that may sound to some .

 

[ronoranina]

1) Uhm, apparently you didn't realize the logical fallacy in your argument when you acknowledged that Johnson started at CENTER in game 6 (lol)

2) Again, "modern NBA" is what I wrote. With the rules being what they are (namely that perimeter defenders can't really hand-check wing scorers without getting called for fouls anymore), the NBA is CURRENTLY, first and foremost, a dominant wing players league.

He is a PG though. I don't care where you play him.

 

[keyser soze]

Fair enough. I'm actually inclined to agree w you concerning wing players and the likelihood of winning it all w one. I probably wouldn't take that bet.

There's just something about Paul though. I just have this strange feeling that he's going to be a part of a championship team sooner or later.. I'd like it to happen w the Knicks, as pie in the sky as that may sound to some .

If he teams up with Melo and Amare in New York, he definately will eace:

 

[keyser soze]

He is a PG though. I don't care where you play him.

Well . . . in that example, I think the fact that he played the clinching game as a center (a game in which he scored 42 points and grabbed 15 rebounds) is quite relevant. I mean, the point I was getting at is that being 6'9 made magic a remarkably unique talent who was able to dominate like no other point guard really could. (I mean, I hope we agree that 6'0/6'1 Chris Paul is never grabbing 15 rebounds in an NBA finals game)

I think the larger point for me, though, is that a team lead by a Hall of fame PG hasn't won a title in two decades. I just think that clearly says a lot about today's NBA game. Regardless, both CP3 and Melo are great players and I'll be on cloud nine if we were ever to land either one.

 

[SSj4Wingzero]

:boohoo::boohoo::boohoo:


May I answer your question?
The Phoenix Suns Mike Dantoni was considered a "players-coach" of getting offensive players on
the same-page.
We had a boat load of offensive-players when Dantoni arrived.

The past two seasons showed we (New Yorkers) did not receive the same Mike Dantoni that was
coaching in Phoenix.
We received an ungrateful headcoach with a personal conflict toward Knick players.
In two seasons Dantoni has not written up one design play on offense/defense
after a time out.
I did not think the Knicks defense could get any worst then the Isiah era, but it did under Dantoni.
The Knicks did not run "one" uptempo game in two seasons under a
headcoach who became NBA famous for his role in "PG-Steve Nash"
running uptempo style of b.ball.

Headcoach Dantoni did not improve any Knick player talent within two seasons.

And please do not mention David Lee/Chandler their b.ball skills were
there under Bum coach Isiah.
Both players were physically "NBA Ready" when we drafted them.
Donnie Walsh added 20 new players within those 2 seasons.
A "Headcoach" first priority is to improve his players talents.
:beer: :gony: :beer:

No, a head coach's first priority is to win games. He has no control over the roster.

That and obviously we didn't have much of an uptempo offense, we had CHRIS DUHON as our PG and main facilitator/distributor...what did you expect?

 

[ronoranina]

1) Uhm, apparently you didn't realize the logical fallacy in your argument when you acknowledged that Johnson started at CENTER in game 6 (lol)

2) Again, "modern NBA" is what I wrote. With the rules being what they are (namely that perimeter defenders can't really hand-check wing scorers without getting called for fouls anymore), the NBA is CURRENTLY, first and foremost, a dominant wing players league.

I can't argue w recent history but I have to ask.. Paul plays on the perimeter right??>> They can't hand check him either. Isn't that why he gets in the lane more effortlessly than anyone in the league? Those rules don't hinder great PG'S either. Put the right players around a great PG and that team could win it all. I truly believe that.

To you point on the "modern NBA", is 1987 (when the Lakers last won a championship) that much less modern than 1990? What's 3 years? And, the hand-checking rule actually came into effect in 1994 after Jordan has already won two titles. He didn't really need this rule.

Oh and wasn't Clyde a great PG? He won championships when you could handcheck too. That argument concerning the Jordan rule doesn't hold water because it makes it easier on PGs too.

 

[ronoranina]

Well . . . in that example, I think the fact that he played the clinching game as a center (a game in which he scored 42 points and grabbed 15 rebounds) is quite relevant. I mean, the point I was getting at is that being 6'9 made magic a remarkably unique talent who was able to dominate like no other point guard really could. (I mean, I hope we agree that 6'0/6'1 Chris Paul is never grabbing 15 rebounds in an NBA finals game)

I think the larger point for me, though, is that a team lead by a Hall of fame PG hasn't won a title in two decades. I just think that clearly says a lot about today's NBA game. Regardless, both CP3 and Melo are great players and I'll be on cloud nine if we were ever to land either one.

Okay then well maybe if he wasn't at the center he of had a stat line more like Frazier's in 70' against the Lakers. Which was: 36 points, 19 assists and five steals --

He didn't have to play center and that was only for one game. It didn't matter where they played him. Where ever they played him they were going to win IMO. He could have played SG.. Lol, you prolly would have liked that.

 

[BleedOrange&Blue]

Lolz

When I figured out SLG = Summer League Game and that was the basis for your argument I LOLed hard. I love how you seemingly offer up pointless posts that are backed up by how you feel or 1 Freaking Summer League Game! Summer League is worthless in my opinion as those games are meaningless much like your opinions. When Paul and I say Gallo has a higher I.Q. than Chandler we cite their entire careers not freaking summer league games! I also cite that most people who follow the Knicks and the NBA for a living have made Gallo the consensus better player.

Chandler's I.Q. would be better if he played PF or SF? You MAKE NO SENSE, How does him playing SG make him dumb? I.Q. is not affected by position played it is simply inherent.

Gallo is a better passer, playmaker, ballhandler, these are the traits of someone with a higher I.Q. and I'll give you the reason why he has a better I.Q. while European player may get flack for being more finesse and less physical then American players, Europeans often have a more diverse skill set. Gallo started playing in the Pros when he was 16 or something, thats why his I.Q. and Savvy far surpass many player his age. In fact thats why I believe what athletic shortcomings he has such as defense, rebounding blocking will be made up for by that superior I.Q. Don't Underestimate it. Heres a pair of guys who have made a living using their superior I.Q.

J. Kidd
Steve Nash

 

[ronoranina]

When I figured out SLG = Summer League Game and that was the basis for your argument I LOLed hard. I love how you seemingly offer up pointless posts that are backed up by how you feel or 1 Freaking Summer League Game! Summer League is worthless in my opinion as those games are meaningless much like your opinions. When Paul and I say Gallo has a higher I.Q. than Chandler we cite their entire careers not freaking summer league games! I also cite that most people who follow the Knicks and the NBA for a living have made Gallo the consensus better player.

Chandler's I.Q. would be better if he played PF or SF? You MAKE NO SENSE, How does him playing SG make him dumb? I.Q. is not affected by position played it is simply inherent.

Gallo is a better passer, playmaker, ballhandler, these are the traits of someone with a higher I.Q. and I'll give you the reason why he has a better I.Q. while European player may get flack for being more finesse and less physical then American players, Europeans often have a more diverse skill set. Gallo started playing in the Pros when he was 16 or something, thats why his I.Q. and Savvy far surpass many player his age. In fact thats why I believe what athletic shortcomings he has such as defense, rebounding blocking will be made up for by that superior I.Q. Don't Underestimate it. Heres a pair of guys who have made a living using their superior I.Q.

J. Kidd
Steve Nash

Who are you calling out here? Kiyaman?? If so make it clear. Your post is somewhat ambiguous in this way. Be specific.

 

[ronoranina]

He is a PG though. I don't care where you play him.

Keyser,

The section I quoted also said he played other positions (PG, SF as well as C) throughout the game. I really didn't matter where they played him. The point is that he's a true PG, and he lead his team to a title. This is indisputable.

 

[keyser soze]

I can't argue w recent history but I have to ask.. Paul plays on the perimeter right??>> They can't hand check him either. Isn't that why he gets in the lane more effortlessly than anyone in the league? Those rules don't hinder great PG'S either. Put the right players around a great PG and that team could win it all. I truly believe that.

To you point on the "modern NBA", is 1987 (when the Lakers last won a championship) that much less modern than 1990? What's 3 years? And, the hand-checking rule actually came into effect in 1994 after Jordan has already won two titles. He didn't really need this rule.

Oh and wasn't Clyde a great PG? He won championships when you could handcheck too. That argument concerning the Jordan rule doesn't hold water because it makes it easier on PGs too.

The main point remains that a hall of fame caliber point guard has not lead his team to an NBA title since Isiah Thomas in 1990. Yes, right before then, Magic dominated the league. But Magic was a 6'9 freak of nature who could score inside at will and board with any guard in the league. Say what you want but 20 years is a long time. And in that 20 year span, EVERY championship team has had either a dominant wing player or a dominant big man OR both, with the LONE exception of the 2004 Detroit Pistons.

My point is simply that a dominant point guard hasn't been a prerequisite for a championship caliber team in quite a long time. Also, I disagree with you about the Jordan rules. They clearly help wing scorers like Kobe, Jordan, Wade, and Carmelo more than point guards, but regardless, that is a minor point in this discussion and certainly a debateable one at that.

 

[keyser soze]

Keyser,

The section I quoted also said he played other positions (PG, SF as well as C) throughout the game. I really didn't matter where they played him. The point is that he's a true PG, and he lead his team to a title. This is indisputable.

We really agree, here. But as I have already pointed out about the post you are referring to, Magic Johnson was 6'9 with the best ball-handling and PG skills in the league. Again, this gave him a unique advantage to dominate the game in a way that no point guard did beforehand or has done since.