I don't like Billiups!

[TR1LL10N]

Umm.. 6apg is fine IF it helps us win. I can't put an indicator on a certain stat for any individual and then gauge the team by it. The most important stat is the "w" & "l". Win ugly or going away, just win baby!

First of all we are not winning so that point is moot. Second, 6 APG is mediocre at best and there a tons of younger, quicker PG's who could give us that. Further those young PG's have the potential to be a long term solution as with Billups we are wasting our time trying to maximize him regardless of coach.

1st, we've mostly observed Amare under D'ant except Gentry and that was a semi-byproduct of D'ant.

This is true but the fact remains Amare has a specific style and needs a different type of PG to compliment him. Changing coaches is not going to turn Amare into a different player and even if you assert it would it's pure speculation.

talented players such as Amare really should shine with or without coaching, just based on natural ability and work ethic. I feel the coach earns his pay not with the Amares and Billups's of the world, but the Landry Fields types who have skills but no direction.

You just contradicted your previous point and further I am not talking about coaching I am talking about our PG...

And on Billups, I really don't see him hindering anything. Sure he's not the fastest, but his IQ, handle, ability to draw fouls, passing, and shot are def. servicable.

Sure in his prime or what he promises but he has not shown it YET. Further, I am convinced that he does not want to be in NYC and has no interest into buying into our system. You may not agree with our system but it is the system we have and the only way we could possibly win anything is for him to at least buy in until a coaching change is made.

Oh, and I been said Douglas needs polishing particularly with his taking the rock inside, waaaaay back, and its still apparent.

The one thing I think Billups brings is his potential tutelage of TD and any other PG we may acquire.

I can't worry about a girls hair when her breath stinks. One thing suprcedes the other.

Cute but I would argue that the PG is far more important than a coach or system.

 

[iSaYughh]

^^

So,

The Amare's are so good they should thrive without coaching....and their play isn't a major tethering to the coach...

Yet MDA is routinely crucified bc of Amare's D, as if he the primary cause and hold back. Of course, raw highschool product Amare and his premium All-Star career...all under MDA's tutelage...is just incidental.

And yet...It is the Landry Fields' of the world who show what a coach is made..

Yet, 2nd Rd Fields, universally panned as a bust pick, and universally scouted as a NBA reject bc he wouldn't rebound and hit the jumper/3 well enough...

Is one of the most brilliantly developed, surprise players of the NBA rookie class....

smh all around at this. This is what happens in a logical fallacy (re:MDA) that runs wild and creates an unreal world that mini-debates get incubated in.

 

[TR1LL10N]

^^

So,

The Amare's are so good they should thrive without coaching....and their play isn't a major tethering to the coach...

Yet MDA is routinely crucified bc of Amare's D, as if he the primary cause and hold back. Of course, raw highschool product Amare and his premium All-Star career...all under MDA's tutelage...is just incidental.

And yet...It is the Landry Fields' of the world who show what a coach is made..

Yet, 2nd Fields, universally panned as a bust pick, and universally scouted as a NBA reject bc he wouldn't rebound and hit the jumper/3 well enough...

Is one of the most brilliantly developed, surprise players of the NBA rookie class....

smh all around at this. This is what happens in a logical fallacy (re:MDA) that runs wild and creates an unreal world that mini-debates get incubated in.

Well you are pointing out the flagrant logical loophole in all these attacks on our coach. Everything bad is our coaches fault and everything good is our players. Not to mention that this failed logic is being brought up for the 100^10 time now in a thread discussing our PG...

 

[TR1LL10N]

You know what upon researching Billups more I will go out on a limb and out right say it...the dude is OVERRATED!

Yes I said it! OVERRATED!

The guy has a career average of 5.6 assists per game to go along with his 2.1 TO's! That's less than 3:1 Assist to turnover ratio! Garbage! Add to it that he has a career 41 FG% and only averaged .2 steals per game and one must conclude that people are confusing a ring and classiness with actual skill. Yes, he won a title on a very deep Pistons team and played well in the playoffs, hitting some big shots but his overall career minus a few playoff runs has been MEDIOCRE at best.

Now the dude is 35 and doesn't want to be in NYC! I rest my case...

 

[NewYork 21 Knicks]

biggest reason we are struggling? he has been back for a couple games we started struggling when he got hurt...

 

[YungMelo15]

To be honest, I was irritated with billups last night as well as the 9 turnover game. Last night he missed the same shots he normally makes, so you kinda live with those shots.

Thats his shot, so you live and die with it. He was just missing in the scond half.

It may take a little time as the QB to get all the players down,where they like the ball, how they move in the PnR etc...

Dont jump ship on billups just yet. Yes he isnt 24 years old anymore, but you cannot hide the fact that he has a high bball IQ, is top 10-20 in history in freethrows and 3 point % and 3's made.

Just 2 yars ago in denver, he personaly won playoff games in Den wih his gameplay, and you cant forget his finals MVP.

Even if it is just for the end of this year, billups can still play at a high level, and 95% of teams would take billups as a starter at 35

 

[TR1LL10N]

biggest reason we are struggling? he has been back for a couple games we started struggling when he got hurt...

It's the lack of a true orchestrator whether it be because of his style or his injury. We need a night in night out PG who is going to give us more than scoring from the PG position.

 

[KingCharles34]

Honestly Marbury was more talented then Billups and Felton. I remember Marbury absolutely sh*ttin on Billups back in 07 when he had his best year (IMO). The problem is, yes i will admit, Billups and Felton are better leaders/locker room guys.

But anyways I sorta agree with Trillion but not to that extent. I have always thought Billups was a little bit overrated. From what i remember he was huge in the 04 Finals. The following year he wasnt hittin big shots in the playoffs, and i remember him missing key shots in the playoff series against Cleveland when Lebron made it to the finals for the first time.

Hes a great leader and locker room guy, a smart player and one of the best post up point guards i have ever seen but his skill level is overrated and hes not a great playmaker. Marbury averaged more assists with bums like Crawford and Curry then Billups has with Melo + JR Smith + KMart + Nene and Melo + Amare.

I thought before the trade that Felton was superior to Billups, then Billups came to NY and had some games where he scored 20+ and it seemed almost effortless, but now that I've gotten to see more of Billups i once again think that Felton is the better all around player at this point and at the point

 

[TR1LL10N]

Honestly Marbury was more talented then Billups and Felton. I remember Marbury absolutely sh*ttin on Billups back in 07 when he had his best year (IMO). The problem is, yes i will admit, Billups and Felton are better leaders/locker room guys.

But anyways I sorta agree with Trillion but not to that extent. I have always thought Billups was a little bit overrated. From what i remember he was huge in the 04 Finals. The following year he wasnt hittin big shots in the playoffs, and i remember him missing key shots in the playoff series against Cleveland when Lebron made it to the finals for the first time.

Hes a great leader and locker room guy, a smart player and one of the best post up point guards i have ever seen but his skill level is overrated and hes not a great playmaker. Marbury averaged more assists with bums like Crawford and Curry then Billups has with Melo + JR Smith + KMart + Nene and Melo + Amare.

I thought before the trade that Felton was superior to Billups, then Billups came to NY and had some games where he scored 20+ and it seemed almost effortless, but now that I've gotten to see more of Billups i once again think that Felton is the better all around player at this point and at the point

Well said. Minus the Marbury stuff!

 

[nyk_nyk]

No, its his whole career I am judging him over based on his style of play and that of Amare. Further I am questioning his ability at age 35 and the much talked about fact that he really wants to retire in Denver and work for their front office.



You are pathological and must suffer from turrets where your tick is to scream out D'antonis name over and over. THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT D'antoni.



Whats comedic is your textbook deflection and attack of the messenger instead the message. Are we discussing me or Billiups? You sadly are using what educated people who know how to debate call a logical fallacy. An obvious Tu quoque. I am sure you have no idea what that means and why you are guilty of it so allow me to educate you:



I will say that while completely irrelevant and off topic your attack on me for defending Gallo is just silly and an obvious diversion. Anything I said was factual and I did not shed a tear when he was traded. He factually was injured for most of his rookie season. He factually was a 21 year old European player who needed time to acclimate.
So Billups doesn't need more time to acclimate to this new system after only 8 games played and limited practice??? Your defense of my comment is weak at best.

Again, I am not so quick to judge as I am looking at his style of play over the years, assessing that style verse our roster, assessing his attitude and known desire to retire in Denver combined with his age and have concluded that I don't like what he brings to the table. I did even go so far as to say more than once that he may win us some games and IF he adapts I will be glad to embrace him. Reading is not your strong suit huh?



So you are saying that Billiups is still playing at the level he did a few years ago with Detroit? I mean you were the one who brought that up as if he can bring that to Knicks. I simply pointed out that while he once was a great player he is currently not at that level and used Shaq as an example. Damn dude, why do I have to hold your hand through all these points. I feel like I'm making train noises telling you to open the tunnel while spoon feeding you points like a baby...



Talk about nonsense...Billups is a pro and who I am to decide!? LOL. I have not decided anything, I gave my OPINION silly guy! I could easily say that D'antoni is a professional head coach and who are you to say he can't coach effectively!? Luckily for me I am more intelligent than that and wouldn't attempt such idiotic tactics.



I'm all for that and I am even for bringing in a new coach but that does not change my opinion that Billups:

1. His style does not mesh well with Amare.
2. He looks to have a lost a step.
3. He does not look to have his heart here in NYC.

BTW, our coach had nothing to do with his 9 turnovers and a 35 year old vet does not need to be coached not to take poor shots. Even if D'ant told him to do so, his veteran experience and leadership should of outweighed a system everyone says he does not agree with.

I also find it funny that for the sake of arguing you now morph your position that it is not Billups a 35 year old rental that must adapt but rather our franchise player must adapt! :thumbsup:



I am not marginalizing him to some "weak PG that hasn't made a name for himself" I am critiquing what I see from a 35 year old vet with historical tendencies and the assists per game of Chris Duhon. Oh and it's not ONE player, it our FRANCHISE player who needs to be effective for us to win. If Amare could rebound, pass and defend it might not be so crucial but we rely on Amare for one thing...to score! If that one thing is infective then YES the PG is not right for our TEAM. More hand holding...SMH



Ahh yes the tell tale signs of a poster losing the debate. (hint, that poster is you) I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT D'ANTONI, this is not a defense of D'antoni! This is a critique about our PG. You and the pathologiacl rabid anti-dant chorus are the only ones bringing him up in this thread. So divert and deflect with an attack on me as the "fanboi president" while ignoring that I have said many times that ANOTHER COACH WILL BE MORE EFFECTIVE. It's a clear sign that you lost the debate and your inability to not mention our coach is telling of your narrow minded singular thinking. SMH



I didn't have to TRY anything. I merely pointed out your silly points and rhetorical questions and it just became evident...

All that typing and you clearly don't get it (waste of time). Whatever man, i just talk basketball. I don't need you to define words for me and present yourself like some college professor breaking down the intricacies of a debate. I look at the game from a raw point of view. You want to try your best to keep the topic only on CB but its not that simple. If you really want to do that then we can talk about how good a pg he's been over the last 8 years.

I don't need to over type to inform you how you really fail. You'd rather have Felton over Billups (both rental players). Damn son!

 

[KingCharles34]

Well said. Minus the Marbury stuff!

I dont expect people to agree with me there lol I think im by myself with Marbury (No homo?)

 

[nyk_nyk]

To be honest, I was irritated with billups last night as well as the 9 turnover game. Last night he missed the same shots he normally makes, so you kinda live with those shots.

Thats his shot, so you live and die with it. He was just missing in the scond half.

It may take a little time as the QB to get all the players down,where they like the ball, how they move in the PnR etc...

Dont jump ship on billups just yet. Yes he isnt 24 years old anymore, but you cannot hide the fact that he has a high bball IQ, is top 10-20 in history in freethrows and 3 point % and 3's made.

Just 2 yars ago in denver, he personaly won playoff games in Den wih his gameplay, and you cant forget his finals MVP.

Even if it is just for the end of this year, billups can still play at a high level, and 95% of teams would take billups as a starter at 35

Well said!

 

[TR1LL10N]

All that typing and you clearly don't get it (waste of time). Whatever man, i just talk basketball. I don't need you to define words for me and present yourself like some college professor breaking down the intricacies of a debate. I look at the game from a raw point of view. You want to try your best to keep the topic only on CB but its not that simple. If you really want to do that then we can talk about how good a pg he's been over the last 8 years.

I don't need to over type to inform you how you really fail. You'd rather have Felton over Billups (both rental players). Damn son!

So debate the game and topic and stop trying to divert and deflect and I wont have to point out your actions with Wiki. Truth sometimes hurts...

You are gassed dude, Billups is mediocre and Felton was having a monster career year while thriving in NYC. Further he is younger, cheaper and quicker with more upside. Billups is definitely a rental while Felton MAY be a rental if we were to somehow pick up CP3 or Deron. With Felton you had the potential to mold him into an all star PG for years to come where as Billups is 35, making 12 mil a year and is gone no matter what by next years deadline. The fact that you don't grasp that is why I question your basketball IQ.

BTW, another tell tale sign of a poster losing the debate is quoting my entire post instead of addressing each point. SMH.

 

[TR1LL10N]

So Billups doesn't need more time to acclimate to this new system after only 8 games played and limited practice??? Your defense of my comment is weak at best.

^^Just saw this.

1. Comparing a 35 year old vet to a raw rookie is laughable with regards to acclimation.
2. I argue that even with a fully acclimated Billups his style still wouldn't mesh with Amare.
3. I argue that even with a fully acclimated Billups his low APG, low steals and 35 year old legs will not be effective.

Again, I am not saying he wont have a run in him and does not have to potential to play well in a playoff series but that is a gamble from a historically poor orchestrator running on 35 year old legs who happens to rather be in Denver. Hopefully he can SURPRISE me but I dont EXPECT him to.

 

[Red]

First of all we are not winning so that point is moot. Second, 6 APG is mediocre at best and there a tons of younger, quicker PG's who could give us that. Further those young PG's have the potential to be a long term solution as with Billups we are wasting our time trying to maximize him regardless of coach.



This is true but the fact remains Amare has a specific style and needs a different type of PG to compliment him. Changing coaches is not going to turn Amare into a different player and even if you assert it would it's pure speculation.



You just contradicted your previous point and further I am not talking about coaching I am talking about our PG...



Sure in his prime or what he promises but he has not shown it YET. Further, I am convinced that he does not want to be in NYC and has no interest into buying into our system. You may not agree with our system but it is the system we have and the only way we could possibly win anything is for him to at least buy in until a coaching change is made.



The one thing I think Billups brings is his potential tutelage of TD and any other PG we may acquire.



Cute but I would argue that the PG is far more important than a coach or system.

No I didn't contradict anything.
Saying Billups isn't right for Amare's skill set is a grasp at any reason to explain his poor performance last night- one game. It infers Amare is dependent on a certain type and that's simply not the case.

To clarify I'm speaking offensively. Players like Amare and Melo will get theirs the majority of the time, regardless of the coach, they're that good.

Defense is different because it takes more of a team effort.

But to question Billups, I can only assume your grasp at straws has lead you to believe Douglas is better (in this system) and you are voting to use his $14mil for something else.

I expect if that were to happen, you'd complain about not having a quality pg.

I'll go out on a limb and say, Billups has MORE cloute than MDA himself, when it comes to the players. I feel he'd get more out of our team on both ends than D'Antoni. And if Mike would listen we would see this.

I can't say enough about Billups. Smart proven veteran. Calm, very high IQ, see's the floor, knows to get others involved, draws fouls, high % shooter, ok defender.

I mean what else do you want?

Really with Billups' PEDIGREE...

By you all of a sudden questioning his ability AFTER he was influenced by Coach... its even more of a referendum on what's wrong and what the real issue here is.
He was the sh*t, until he started listening to MDA (WHICH also makes him a consumate pro, indicative of his mind set).

And to assume his motives over cause and effect that's on display is weak imo.
There'S not a coach who wouldn't want him.
Maybe you would like douglas starting, and chauncey off the bench.

^^

So,

The Amare's are so good they should thrive without coaching....and their play isn't a major tethering to the coach...

Yet MDA is routinely crucified bc of Amare's D, as if he the primary cause and hold back. Of course, raw highschool product Amare and his premium All-Star career...all under MDA's tutelage...is just incidental.

And yet...It is the Landry Fields' of the world who show what a coach is made..

Yet, 2nd Rd Fields, universally panned as a bust pick, and universally scouted as a NBA reject bc he wouldn't rebound and hit the jumper/3 well enough...

Is one of the most brilliantly developed, surprise players of the NBA rookie class....

smh all around at this. This is what happens in a logical fallacy (re:MDA) that runs wild and creates an unreal world that mini-debates get incubated in.

I was speaking from an offensive stand point.

You can't come to grips with the fact that Mike D'Antoni isn't all he's cracked up to be.

Its unfortunate that a total failure spanning years and many players careers can't convince you to admit this.

It really doesn't matter. Although a slew of analysts say this, the stats say this, writers say this, everyone but you realizes this. Hey sometimes its not easy to admit things, so I get it.

Plus I'm content with knowing that what we saw is what we'll get and it won't fly. MDA has peeked. He did his best. Although he isn't the worse coach, he's far from advertised and when we move on

I wonder what you will feel like when a quality, defensive oriented product takes the floor. You'll claim you support the Knicks regardless, I'll claim it's ok to have a few unknowledgable fans, who actually supported unconventional losing. Its ok.

 

[TR1LL10N]

No I didn't contradict anything.
Saying Billups isn't right for Amare's skill set is a grasp at any reason to explain his poor performance last night- one game. It infers Amare is dependent on a certain type and that's simply not the case.

You did not say that and you did indeed contradict yourself:

1st, we've mostly observed Amare under D'ant except Gentry and that was a semi-byproduct of D'ant.

talented players such as Amare really should shine with or without coaching, just based on natural ability and work ethic.

Those are contradictory as you are stating that Amare is a product of D'ant in one post and then stating that he is who he is regardless of coach. Whatever, I digress..

But to question Billups, I can only assume your grasp at straws has lead you to believe Douglas is better (in this system) and you are voting to use his $14mil for something else.

You should stop assuming since I look at TD as a combo scoring guard who is best suited scoring and defending, not orchestrating. It would be nice if he developed into a floor general but sadly I doubt he ever will. You make some wild assertion about me yet have nerve to say I am grasping at straws!? If my points are so weak why do you need to make up factitious points to debate?

Oh and I would advocate using Billups money on something else ONLY if it were something tangible that filled needs. I would not haphazardly advocate dumping Billups without knowing exactly what I would replace him with. That my friend is something you are guilty of with regards to our coach...

I expect if that were to happen, you'd complain about not having a quality pg.

Nice a hypothetical based of another hypothetical that you just made up. Debate magic! :teeth:

I'll go out on a limb and say, Billups has MORE cloute than MDA himself, when it comes to the players. I feel he'd get more out of our team on both ends than D'Antoni. And if Mike would listen we would see this.

MDA...squawk! MDA...squawk! "red wanna cracker?" What does Billups clout verse MDA have anything to do with this discussion? Answer: NOTHING!

I can't say enough about Billups. Smart proven veteran. Calm, very high IQ, see's the floor, knows to get others involved, draws fouls, high % shooter, ok defender.

Sure he is a smart veteran but for all his calmness, IQ and court vision he has a mediocre career of 5.6 APG with 2.1 TO's and 41% FG. Compund those MEDIOCRE stats with the fact he is 35 and does not even want to be in NYC and you are right...you can't say enough about him to outweigh that!

I mean what else do you want.

With this squad we should have a PG who average at least 8+ assists per game, plays defense, minimizes turnovers and wants to be here. More than .2 steals per game would be nice too...

Really with Billups' PEDIGREE

Blinded by his bling instead of looking at his actual stats. Again, yes he had a great playoff run 7 years ago! Almost everything else has been medicore and have his stats to back me up.

By you all of a sudden questioning his ability AFTER he was influenced by Coach... its even more of a referendum on what's wrong and what the real issue here is.
He was the sh*t, until he started listening to MDA (WHICH also makes him a consumate pro, indicative of his mind set).

Influenced by coach huh? (MDA turrets!) If only! MDA has a history of elevating PG's so if he were to be influenced history we should it would be for the better. Problem is Billups is 35, set in his ways and has mediocre stats all on 35 year old legs. Whats also funny is that you were stating D'ant had no impact when they were winning...remember..."the inmates were running the asylum"? Now D'ant is making Billups play bad! :teeth:

Dude you are schizophrenic poster...one day the verdict is in, the next we are making it to the EC finals and now we are doomed once again not because of our players but because of our coach. :thumbsup:

He was the sh*t, until he started listening to MDA (WHICH also makes him a consumate pro, indicative of his mind set).

I was never really thrilled with Billups and was sad to see Felt go but embraced the trade and hoped for the best. Now that i have seen Billups play nightly and looked closer at his lackluster stats I can safely conclude if he were "the shit" it was for a few playoff series and thats it. At 35 he is not the shit and just plays like it...

And to assume his motives over cause and effect that's. On display is weak imo.

Assume his motives like you do in almost every post? I assumed nothing, it's documented that he wanted to finish his career in Denver. (his hometown) It is documented that he was going to accept the buyout and turn around and work for the Nuggets front office. BTW, I said it was either A or B so no assumptions even if he has embraced NYC.

 

[nyk_nyk]

So debate the game and topic and stop trying to divert and deflect and I wont have to point out your actions with Wiki. Truth sometimes hurts...

You are gassed dude, Billups is mediocre and Felton was having a monster career year while thriving in NYC. Further he is younger, cheaper and quicker with more upside. Billups is definitely a rental while Felton MAY be a rental if we were to somehow pick up CP3 or Deron. With Felton you had the potential to mold him into an all star PG for years to come where as Billups is 35, making 12 mil a year and is gone no matter what by next years deadline. The fact that you don't grasp that is why I question your basketball IQ.

BTW, another tell tale sign of a poster losing the debate is quoting my entire post instead of addressing each point. SMH.

You question my basketball IQ because I believe Billups is an upgrade right now over Felton??? LOLOLOL!!! Your argument was that Billups didn't fit with Amare (mind you after only 8 games and an injury) and Felton would be a better running mate. Felton has been really good for about 2 months while Billups is proven. Where's your IQ on that?

We're not talking about "years to come". You made a statement that Billups is not good for Amare RIGHT NOW. Silly since he needs time to get use to players tendencies on offense...same thing Felton had to do right?? Bottom line, who's the better PG? Who would teams rather have? (no contracts involved, just straight skill set) Answer that!

Yo and i don't care about winning or losing a debate. Like I said I just talk straight basketball. You can take the win and still be clueless.

 

[nyk_nyk]

Compund those MEDIOCRE stats with the fact he is 35 and does not even want to be in NYC and you are right...you can't say enough about him to outweigh that!

But...

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/3528/billups-i-hope-to-be-a-knick-in-2012

 

[Red]

You did not say that and you did indeed contradict yourself:





Those are contradictory as you are stating that Amare is a product of D'ant in one post and then stating that he is who he is regardless of coach. Whatever, I digress..



You should stop assuming since I look at TD as a combo scoring guard who is best suited scoring and defending, not orchestrating. It would be nice if he developed into a floor general but sadly I doubt he ever will. You make some wild assertion about me yet have nerve to say I am grasping at straws!? If my points are so weak why do you need to make up factitious points to debate?

Oh and I would advocate using Billups money on something else ONLY if it were something tangible that filled needs. I would not haphazardly advocate dumping Billups without knowing exactly what I would replace him with. That my friend is something you are guilty of with regards to our coach...



Nice a hypothetical based of another hypothetical that you just made up. Debate magic! :teeth:



MDA...squawk! MDA...squawk! "red wanna cracker?" What does Billups clout verse MDA have anything to do with this discussion? Answer: NOTHING!



Sure he is a smart veteran but for all his calmness, IQ and court vision he has a mediocre career of 5.6 APG with 2.1 TO's and 41% FG. Compund those MEDIOCRE stats with the fact he is 35 and does not even want to be in NYC and you are right...you can't say enough about him to outweigh that!



With this squad we should have a PG who average at least 8+ assists per game, plays defense, minimizes turnovers and wants to be here. More than .2 steals per game would be nice too...



Blinded by his bling instead of looking at his actual stats. Again, yes he had a great playoff run 7 years ago! Almost everything else has been medicore and have his stats to back me up.



Influenced by coach huh? (MDA turrets!) If only! MDA has a history of elevating PG's so if he were to be influenced history we should it would be for the better. Problem is Billups is 35, set in his ways and has mediocre stats all on 35 year old legs. Whats also funny is that you were stating D'ant had no impact when they were winning...remember..."the inmates were running the asylum"? Now D'ant is making Billups play bad! :teeth:

Dude you are schizophrenic poster...one day the verdict is in, the next we are making it to the EC finals and now we are doomed once again not because of our players but because of our coach. :thumbsup:



I was never really thrilled with Billups and was sad to see Felt go but embraced the trade and hoped for the best. Now that i have seen Billups play nightly and looked closer at his lackluster stats I can safely conclude if he were "the shit" it was for a few playoff series and thats it. At 35 he is not the shit and just plays like it...



Assume his motives like you do in almost every post? I assumed nothing, it's documented that he wanted to finish his career in Denver. (his hometown) It is documented that he was going to accept the buyout and turn around and work for the Nuggets front office. BTW, I said it was either A or B so no assumptions even if he has embraced NYC.

I didn't have time to read your long winded response, but from the 1st couple of linesi think I see the issue:

1. I was saying when you say Billups doesn't fit Amare, that you've only really seen him in MDA's system- and that you might feel different when seeing him used in another.
You think Phil Jackson would use Amare the same?
You think Pop couldn't get Amare and Billups to work?

2. I think you (again) assume my motives, and I guess feel offended I didn't agree. But I wasn't arguing at all, just stating how the conclusions you drew and the logc you used is refutted by many factors including...

He was thriving before he got here for years
He was thriving before he tried implementing the system
He avg MORE than Felton in the beginning
SH*T, HE DROPPED 30 on MIA
His pedigree gives credence to the theory that its more a systemic issue than talent or lack of

3. And I'm wondering why not suggest him as a back up rather than "he's old, his skills don't fit with Amare"

No need to get defensive although we know that your m.o., really I wasn't getting at you at all when I resonded, so I'm wondering why you are so sensative.

Why haven't you considered how could he put up the numbers he did IF he wasn't a good fit?

MDA has a history of many things, I don't see you mentioning the entire picture. Once he's gone, you'll see.

 

[TR1LL10N]

But...

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/3528/billups-i-hope-to-be-a-knick-in-2012

Yea and I'm sure the 12 mil he would lose if NY exercised his buyout has nothing to do with it...
BTW:

?I haven?t ruled anything out

Everyone knows he wanted to end his career in Denver and work for the Nuggs front office. What is he supposed to say about the team he is playing for: "nah I hate NYC, eff them" :teeth: