pat
Starter
I really appreciate that more balanced approach of yours. I can respect your sympathy for Marbury although I don't share it. There is really no point in arguing about something we all have no first hand knowledge about
Marbury Gives Interview, on His "Situation."
- Thread starter OGKnickfan
- Start date
I really appreciate that more balanced approach of yours. I can respect your sympathy for Marbury although I don't share it. There is really no point in arguing about something we all have no first hand knowledge about
cosign except what I highlighted.. D'Antoni is a top 5 coach in the NBA... I trust him.. but his hate for one player blocks him from making the playoffs this year...
MSG I was basically saying the same, don't draw too many conclusions yet. YOUR boy ABCD had to go running his mouth about how because Steph said it and Steph's lawyer said it it must be true. I asked him how he knew that it must be true and he refused to answer and you and him declared him the "winner"...
Fact is your boy is wrong, he's a moron with no sense of what a "logical argument" is, THAT was my point, but you are too blinded by your Team Starbury love to see it. You basically proved my point against your boy...
MSGKnickz33
The Gold Mac
You dont have to be trustworthy to be great at sumthin
"i aint talkin to nobody in particular"
OGKnickfan
Enlightened
FROM AN OG's PERSPECTIVE
:afro:
The most likely thing here is that there was miscommunication, between both parties: D'Antoni and Steph. D'Antoni could easily misconstrue Marbury's concern, about his place with the team, as a refusal to play. It's easy for Steph, who claimed he was told by D'Antoni that he did not have a clean slate, after hearing, publicly, that he had an opportunity to earn a spot on the team, to feel he could not trust D'Antoni.
There are clearly deeply-seated bad feelings, perhaps as a carry-over from their Phoenix days, between both individuals. D'Antoni, according to the Berman article, was forced to offer Marbury playing time, after the latest trades, by Donnie Walsh, who, if you remember (from media reports, earlier this season), claimed he was unaware of Marbury not being offered a role and would leave roster decisions up to D'Antoni. This tells us that D'Antoni has never wanted to play Marbury, has been playing with Steph's head and is not approaching Steph in good faith.
Furthermore, in this article, Marbury uses one of the terms that D'Antoni has used in the past: "clean slate," when he says that, prior to the Cavs game, he was told, by D'Antoni himself, that he "did not have a clean state, coming into the regular season," and that the other players did. Marbury also stated that he, along with the rest of us (who thought otherwise), had no idea that he would no longer be a part of the Knicks' rotation, that he heard about this after Q-Snitch served as D'Antoni's messsenger boy and announced the details to the rest of the team.
As for Q, he's clearly acting inappropriately, as he has in the past, with his off-the-record leaks to the press. What can I say? He knows how to charm his way into the graces of those in charge. Perceptive people, and real students of the game, however, can see right through him. He's a scrub, with no game and a golden tongue.
As someone older than most of the posters on this site, with a few more years of real world experience, than most, working with, and around, powerful people, I can tell you that this organization is at fault. Walsh is a good guy here, but he's allowing D'Antoni to act unethically, in regards to Steph. I think Walsh needs to pull these men into his office and extract the truth from D'Antoni and Marbury, as to their feelings, after which he should try to resolve the issues at hand, with the end result either being Marbury being bought out or playing out his contract with the Knicks.
:afro:
The most likely thing here is that there was miscommunication, between both parties: D'Antoni and Steph. D'Antoni could easily misconstrue Marbury's concern, about his place with the team, as a refusal to play. It's easy for Steph, who claimed he was told by D'Antoni that he did not have a clean slate, after hearing, publicly, that he had an opportunity to earn a spot on the team, to feel he could not trust D'Antoni.
There are clearly deeply-seated bad feelings, perhaps as a carry-over from their Phoenix days, between both individuals. D'Antoni, according to the Berman article, was forced to offer Marbury playing time, after the latest trades, by Donnie Walsh, who, if you remember (from media reports, earlier this season), claimed he was unaware of Marbury not being offered a role and would leave roster decisions up to D'Antoni. This tells us that D'Antoni has never wanted to play Marbury, has been playing with Steph's head and is not approaching Steph in good faith.
Furthermore, in this article, Marbury uses one of the terms that D'Antoni has used in the past: "clean slate," when he says that, prior to the Cavs game, he was told, by D'Antoni himself, that he "did not have a clean state, coming into the regular season," and that the other players did. Marbury also stated that he, along with the rest of us (who thought otherwise), had no idea that he would no longer be a part of the Knicks' rotation, that he heard about this after Q-Snitch served as D'Antoni's messsenger boy and announced the details to the rest of the team.
As for Q, he's clearly acting inappropriately, as he has in the past, with his off-the-record leaks to the press. What can I say? He knows how to charm his way into the graces of those in charge. Perceptive people, and real students of the game, however, can see right through him. He's a scrub, with no game and a golden tongue.
As someone older than most of the posters on this site, with a few more years of real world experience, than most, working with, and around, powerful people, I can tell you that this organization is at fault. Walsh is a good guy here, but he's allowing D'Antoni to act unethically, in regards to Steph. I think Walsh needs to pull these men into his office and extract the truth from D'Antoni and Marbury, as to their feelings, after which he should try to resolve the issues at hand, with the end result either being Marbury being bought out or playing out his contract with the Knicks.
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Fact is, OG, everything right now is hear-say. Marbury's record of speaking is not the most favorable one in the world. I agree, there probably was a miscommunication but whether there was a miscommunication or not this team is a team in turmoil, a team in need of rebuilding. Walsh has trusted D'Antoni to being the ring leader to attempt to bring this franchise back to prominance. As opposed to the situation on a lot of professional sports teams (including a ton in NY), the COACH, not the owner not the president, the COACH has the ability to alter his roster, to get the players out there that he wants. Unprofessional or not the Knicks did not break any rules, nor are they accused of breaking any rules. People break promises, people go back on their word and you know what, if it's for the BENEFIT of this team in the long run I'm for it.
The Marbury experiment was over, should have been over before D'Antoni got here. You can assume Mike D. is a liar, you can assume he's the worst person on earth if you want to. But what does Marbury do for this team in the long run? What has he done for them in the past? Mike D'Antoni felt Steph quit on him in Phoenix, many people inside the Knicks organization have said the hatred teammates have for Steph is quite palpable.
If you want to take Steph's word as is go right ahead, I'm not going to stop you. But to say it's definitely the truth is viewing the world through too naive of a lense. Stephon Marbury and his lawyer have a good reason to lie if they are lying, what motivation would D'Antoni have to lie? His motivation I think would be that he wants to get his guys on the floor, is that his fault? Should we blame the coach for trying to do something to plan for the future? To get his guys on the floor? You want D'Antoni to be forced to play a guy he doesn't want to play in his freshman season with the Knicks? So, talk about how he's been unfair to Marbury all you want, complain all you want about Steph being treated unfairly but to force a coach who relies so much on his PG and having his PG be loyal and an integral part of his offense to play a PG he doesn't trust, who he doesn't get along with and who his team doesn't get along with is exactly what Isiah did to Larry Brown, and we all know how that worked out.
Marbury's word isn't Gospel, Marbury's word isn't automatically true. There's two sides to this story and to be honest I'm more willing to trust a respected and successful coach than an unsuccessful Coach's enemy.
The Marbury experiment was over, should have been over before D'Antoni got here. You can assume Mike D. is a liar, you can assume he's the worst person on earth if you want to. But what does Marbury do for this team in the long run? What has he done for them in the past? Mike D'Antoni felt Steph quit on him in Phoenix, many people inside the Knicks organization have said the hatred teammates have for Steph is quite palpable.
If you want to take Steph's word as is go right ahead, I'm not going to stop you. But to say it's definitely the truth is viewing the world through too naive of a lense. Stephon Marbury and his lawyer have a good reason to lie if they are lying, what motivation would D'Antoni have to lie? His motivation I think would be that he wants to get his guys on the floor, is that his fault? Should we blame the coach for trying to do something to plan for the future? To get his guys on the floor? You want D'Antoni to be forced to play a guy he doesn't want to play in his freshman season with the Knicks? So, talk about how he's been unfair to Marbury all you want, complain all you want about Steph being treated unfairly but to force a coach who relies so much on his PG and having his PG be loyal and an integral part of his offense to play a PG he doesn't trust, who he doesn't get along with and who his team doesn't get along with is exactly what Isiah did to Larry Brown, and we all know how that worked out.
Marbury's word isn't Gospel, Marbury's word isn't automatically true. There's two sides to this story and to be honest I'm more willing to trust a respected and successful coach than an unsuccessful Coach's enemy.
kBlack > Abcd
I don't post much, but that got ugly. I haven't seen someone get owned like that in a while, so I had to reply. And I got a good laugh when he kept saying "I'm the third best poster on here." According to who? After reading this thread, it damn sure isn't according to me and others with a functional brain.
I don't post much, but that got ugly. I haven't seen someone get owned like that in a while, so I had to reply. And I got a good laugh when he kept saying "I'm the third best poster on here." According to who? After reading this thread, it damn sure isn't according to me and others with a functional brain.
knicklover
Benchwarmer
I agree with you 100%.
Neither really gives a rats ass about Marbury, but they do care about the team and winning. Good teamates put the TEAM ahead of their personal self interests. They play injured, they play out of position so someone else can get time, they come off the bench even if they think they deserve to be a starter, they give everything they've got every night, they try to help each other get better, some even take less salary so another player can sign and make the team better etc...
Marbury is all about MARBURY - END OF STORY. That's why he's being run out of town.
knicklover
Benchwarmer
I agree with you.
D'Antoni = Virtually every great player in the NBA wants to play for him. Some of his former players even want to come to NY eventually etc...
Marbury = Virtually every great coach and not so great coach he ever played for fought with him and had problems with him. He eventually gets run out of every city is plays in.
Yet somehow now that Marbury and D'Antoni are having problems it's the coache's falut. ROTFLMAO
donchris
Next season, keep waiting
Doesn't your use of the term haterbury make you bias or partial to Marbury? Doesn't your allegiance to a group that calls themselves 'Team Starbury' make you even more bias?
abcd said:
There's that word again. Could this be bias?
Let's try to put this in perspective. So D'Antoni comes to Steph and says
'Hey Steph, I've got room for you in my line up. Do you want in?'
and Steph's first response is, 'I thought I'm not in your future plans?
So Steph never said no but he never said yes, sure I'll play, it's my job.
Second try:
After trading Randolph and Crawford D'Antoni tries again.
'OK Steph, let's try this again. Better offer! I've got room for you in my line up, this time as a permanent starter in the two-guard position. How bout it?'
Then Steph replies,
'I'm not sure I feel comfortable with the situation.' In other words, fuc you coach.
This type of word play is like a jedi mind trick. It's like when you ask a girl out and she says 'I have to wash my hair.' Although she never actually said No, you still got turned down and aren't getting laid. The fact he never actually formed the word 'No' is a weak argument. D'Antoni didn't order him to play. That's not his style. He gave Steph a choice and Steph chose to bullshit and ultimately did not choose to play. D'Antoni never said 'Steph said No I'm not going to play' he said Steph refused to play and that's what he did. It was a clear refusal. I ask you if you want to make a move and you give a bullshit excuse, that's called a refusal.
alrobinson6022
Benchwarmer
the fact that they waited this long to suspend marbury clealry shows that upper management knows they didn't handle this the right way. granted stephon marbury is no angel but clearly the knicks brass messed this up from the start of the season
OGKnickfan
Enlightened
I'm starting to agree with ABCD, when he says you manipulate, and misrepresent, people's posts. It's clear you just desperately want to argue with others, even when, as in my case, they're approaching the issue with an open, unbiased mind.
I'm not a Marbury or D'Antoni fan. My favorite players are from the 90s era, and I simply watch the Knicks for entertainment. As someone who has dealt with organizations, bureaucrats, the powerful, etc., in my career as an Assitant basketball coach and a teacher, I can tell you that it's the responsibility of authority figures to be sensitive to those who are at the mercy of power.
I've worked with head coaches who have verbally abused players, for whatever issues are causing problems for their teams, when using mistakes and misunderstandings as an opportunity to communicate, and learn from situations, is best practice, i.e., D'Antoni could have asked Marbury to tell him what would have to happen in order to make him comfortable with playing, instead of assuming Marbury was determined not to play and reporting as much to the media. In the course of my career, I've seen people scapegoated and tagged as bad teachers, when they've been given no support, in their work with some of the wildest, out-of-control kids you've ever seen in your life. Unless you know what's been going on, with regard to Marbury, a player who the Knicks have never provided with a quality big man, and D'Antoni, made who he is by Nash and Stoudamire, you should proceed with a little bit of more humility and caution, when making assertions.
Kblack, even though you'd like to believe that things are black-and-white, clear cut and simple, they're not. Being self-righteous, and full of conviction, in favore of whatever point of view you happen to have, doesn't make you right. In fact, it just means you think you're right, which often means you're far from it.
Think on that. :hippy:
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Not sure how I manipulated your post at all, in fact I agreed with almost everything you had to say. Neither myself nor abcd nor you know what's going on in the lockerroom. The whole point of my argument is that you can't take Marbury at face value and you can't just discredit everything D'Antoni has to say. That's what I've been saying. In fact, I never said things were black and white, nor clear cut and simple. In fact, that's the very fact abcd tried to state that I DEBUNKED.
I trust that you've been in various coaching situations but again there's more than one way to skin a cat, maybe D'Antoni does what he always does, that's how he gets the players he wants, that's how he gets success. Maybe he has it out for Marbury, but just because Marbury says D'Antoni has it out for Marbury doesn't make it true that D'Antoni has it out for Marbury. I agree you came in with an open mind and if you actually read what I wrote you'll see I AGREED with you...
I just am of the ilk more likely to believe a guy like D'Antoni who has has success and is pretty popular amongst his former colleagues than believe a guy like Stephon Marbury, who is not...
I trust that you've been in various coaching situations but again there's more than one way to skin a cat, maybe D'Antoni does what he always does, that's how he gets the players he wants, that's how he gets success. Maybe he has it out for Marbury, but just because Marbury says D'Antoni has it out for Marbury doesn't make it true that D'Antoni has it out for Marbury. I agree you came in with an open mind and if you actually read what I wrote you'll see I AGREED with you...
I just am of the ilk more likely to believe a guy like D'Antoni who has has success and is pretty popular amongst his former colleagues than believe a guy like Stephon Marbury, who is not...
When Marbury leaves the Knicks, I will still be a part of Team Starbury. I'll just support the Knicks and the new team he goes to.
TEAM STARBURY 4 LIFE!
jimkcchief88
All Star
Again Donchris is the voice of reason. Great analogy with the girl washing her hair thing. What man hasn't gotten a similar brush off like that?? The bottomline is the whole lying thing is he-said, he-said. And that's business. What was D'antoni supposed to say during the off-season??? "Steph, I still hate your guts from Phoenix and there is no way you are playing a minute for me as long as I am the Knicks coach." To which Steph responds " I had no intention of playing for you b****ss in the first place." NO. Anybody who is involved in the business world knows this is not how it goes down. Both sides say the right thing while acting in thier own best interests, and when s**t blows up, on comes the fingerpointing. If Steph wanted to play, all he had to do is suit up and play. He was given the opportunity. Actions speak louder than words. ON CHIEF!
No, Mike D'Antoni should have told Marbury privately that he wasn't going to play him, and Donnie Walsh should have bought him out, traded him , or waived him. If the media asked about the situation, he could have just said that he wants to keep everything that goes on with the members of the team private.
IMO, Donnie Walsh should just buyout Marbury for 17 million dollars and let him go to a contender for the remaining 4.9 million dollars. I think it's the right and fair thing to do.
TunerAddict
Starter
I LOL at things like this. No way Marbury would get more than the minimum(or atleast very near the minimum).
thats about 1,500 million