Fire D'Antoni!

[DANUTZ39]

Yo, I've been in battle mode all week, so of course I'ma respond...



I see you questioning my post but you ain't clear on it. Please, elaborate...

I'm not questioning your post, all I'm saying that both of you are right to some degree.

LJ puts most of the blame on the players (and some really deserve it) and you blame the coach (who's not without blame as well)

All I'm saying is more of a combination of players and coaching that have us where we are.

 

[Red]

I'm not questioning your post, all I'm saying that both of you are right to some degree.

LJ puts most of the blame on the players (and some really deserve it) and you blame the coach (who's not without blame as well)

All I'm saying is more of a combination of players and coaching that have us where we are.

yo nutz... What Sly did was an example of "clarification" not "manipulation". He attempted to explain something not clearly evident in it's context. When someone hangs opinions on every technical word its just being argumentative. Btw... last I checked Pheonix was 5-1 without the Sh*tty-System-that Omits-Logic (SSOL)lol!

 

[Red]

Increased scoring is a plus. But, poor player development, poor player evaluation, undisciplined and non-motivational issues are my main problem w/Dantoni. The philosophy is icing on the cake. Since PHX is doing well w/o him I can only conclude he MAY be over-rated. Players (as argued) NOT EVEN RUNNING THE CAOCHES SYSTEM for over 2 years now correctly... and the coach doesn't discipline them....Falling behind every game and the coach doesn't adapt... As they say on NFLcountdown- "C'mon Man"!!!

 

[LJ4ptplay]

First of all, the word "manipulate" does not mean "to change something for ones own benefit." It means to skillfully handle, control, or move something. So you basically did a shitty job at manipulating :lol:



And I'm still telling you, I NEVER said we had a talentless team, contrary to what you believe. I was saying our players would have different roles on superior teams.

Again, please point out where I manipulated your post. The premise of your argument has been that we have a talented team and it's D'Antoni's fault. Then you state in a different thread that our two best players would be bench players, or 3rd or 4th options, on better teams (i.e. talented teams). Just seems like a contradictory statement to me. Like DANUTZ39 said. You're the one manipulating your own posts.

Maybe you don't really know what "manipulation" means. Or maybe you don't really know what "talent" means. For someone who calls himself the Verbal Assassin, you really seem to struggle with vocabulary. By the way, who the hell calls themselves the Verbal Assassin?:teeth:

Also, if we sucked the way you proclaim, wouldn't we lose every single game we play? Think about it. In the second paragraph of your quote you said "this whole team does not have talent relative to the other professional basketball teams in the NBA", so you're basically saying we're not on any NBA team's level, which is ridiculously absurd.

Now you're just being argumentative. You stated we have a talented team because they play in the NBA. That's a ridiculous statement. I said that was a realtive statement because they are more talented than the average person but not in terms of the NBA. Shall I rephrase it for you? We don't have talent relative to the majority of the NBA. Hence, why we are losing.

Bringing both Van gundy and Ewing into the discussion is foolish. Shows that you could not find a counter argument to my examples of teams that failed with similar SSOL styles. I know, you were dumbfounded so you made up bullshit.



Hey, its not really my opinion that d'antoni's SSOL style of play can never win a championship, its the cold hard facts. I presented the facts but you stubbornly disregard them because they kill your argument.

Where were these facts you presented? All you've said is that we have a talented team (an incorrect opinion) and it's all D'Antoni's fault. And the only thing you've based it on is that the run-and-gun system has never won a championship, therefore it can never win. That's faulty logic and based solely on opinion. I presented the VanGundy and Ewing examples to display your logical fallacies.

And D'Antoni has won with his system. He's made it to the Western Conference Finals, Game 7, which was robbed. They could have beaten the Spurs at home if Amare wasn't suspended. And we all know the Suns would have easily beaten the Cavs in the Finals.

I agree that a defensive strategy may give a team a better chance, but to say D'Antoni's system will never win because it never has is just being stupid.

The major problem I see with posters like yourself is that they shit on the team and pardon the coach. Many times I've heard you say to blow up the team like its all the teams fault. Which is a major reason I stepped into the argument. Especially as I now see that d'antoni is more to blame than the whole team is.

So where were you when D'Antoni was hired? Why weren't you calling for D'Antoni to be fired last year? I do think D'Antoni should be held accountable and that he's not entirely free of blame. But to call for him to be fired 4 games into a rebuilding year is over-reacting and based solely on emotion.

And that's been the basis of my argument. Everybody is overreacting. I'll ask it again. If we were 4-2 right now, would you still be calling for D'Antoni to be fired?

D'Antoni has won in the past. That's a fact. We don't have a talented team. That's a fact. Ask any person that knows anything about basketball that isn't the typical Knick fan blinded by their love for the team. Everybody knew this was another throw-away year.

No coach could win more than 35 games with this group of players. I've been saying that all offseason. You on the other hand thought we could make the playoffs and are just bitter that reality has hit you in the face. SMH.

 

[JayJ44]

yo nutz... What Sly did was an example of "clarification" not "manipulation". He attempted to explain something not clearly evident in it's context. When someone hangs opinions on every technical word its just being argumentative. Btw... last I checked Pheonix was 5-1 without the Sh*tty-System-that Omits-Logic (SSOL)lol!

They actually are running the SSOL system....the reason they are 5-1 is because they have a very talented team.

 

[jpz17]

If you want to fire someone fire Walsh. It is not D's fault that he has a bad team

 

[LeFlume]

We could have had Red Auerbach on steriods and we wouln't have won more games. The reason we absolutely stink is not on the sideline. It's on the floor. Not even god all mighty himself could make this crap team win games.

 

[Red]

Just when u thought it couldn't get worse...

"Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni got a lot of love and a lot of leeway during their first season simply because they weren't Isiah Thomas. They came in with big talk about change, plans for the future and forward progress, but seven games into Year Two we're beginning to wonder if they actually can accomplish anything more than simply not being Thomas.

This team is moving backward right now and both men deserve some share of the blame. D'Antoni talks a lot about stressing defense, and then he plays guys big minutes when they clearly have no interest in actually playing any of it when they're on the court. No one outside of Danilo Gallinari can make a jump shot, yet there's never any response to players launching brick after brick and players who are supposed to be part of the future, i.e. Jordan Hill, are buried for guys who don't care because they know they are just placeholders.

Worst of all, Wilson Chandler has regressed terribly through the early part of this season. He's one of the few guys that the Knicks have to use as a foundation for the future, and his play this season makes you wonder why, if he's such a great coach, D'Antoni can't get something more out of his athletic ability.

It's hard to kill D'Antoni too much, however, because he's simply playing the cards he's been dealt by Walsh. All praise will go to him if he actually pulls off the LeBron James signing, but it's hard to see that he's aware of the job that needs to get done before next offseason. The Knicks got crushed by the Bucks on Saturday night, and it was hard to ignore the fact that some of the players doing the crushing had names like Charlie Bell, Ersan Ilyasova and Jodie Meeks."
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/The-Knicks-Are-Moving-Backwards-69586997.html
:whack::whack:

 

[Red]

Cont'd

?Bell wasn't drafted, while Ilyasova and Meeks were second-round picks. All over the NBA, similarly unheralded players are playing big roles on teams better than the Knicks. Since taking over the Knicks, Walsh has shown no creativity in player acquisitions, he's shown no affinity for uncovering other people's trash and no interest in giving time to unproven players at the expense of retreads like Larry Hughes. It would be interesting to hear him explain why that's the case. His whole pitch has been about a brighter future, but there appears to be absolutely no interest in developing players who can be a part of it.

There was another thing clear in the Bucks game. Not drafting Brandon Jennings was a brutal mistake by Walsh. He's already as good as Chris Duhon and presumably will get better once he's got more than two weeks under his belt in the NBA. For a team that desperately needs good point guard play and is getting nothing out of Hill, that kind of blunder is inexcusable. On draft night it seemed as if the Knicks were only prepared to draft Stephen Curry, and his absence from the board forced Walsh to scramble.

We're all aware of the need to get under the salary cap and the dizzying promises of free agent goodies coming to town in June, but that's just a positive spin on throwing up your hands and saying Isiah left us with nothing to work with. Neither D'Antoni nor Walsh have done much of anything to make the Knicks a better team in the short term, which is unacceptable no matter the confines of the situation they inherited.

Throwing the blame on Thomas has already gotten old, but it will be downright stale if they keep trying it while running out a team as bad as anything Isiah ever put together. That's where they're headed, because progress is nowhere in sight at Madison Square Garden."

 

[Red]

God, I hate this fake ass moustache wearin' Italian-West Virginian!!!! If we needed better point guard play.... why didn't we get Jennings, why didn't he play Marbury, why doesn't he realize Douglas is better than Duhon. Why is he JUST NOW realizing we should try playing zone to help our dificiencies? Why isn't he playing Hill? Why didn't we get Lopez? Why isn't Chandler better and being used more? Don't blame Walsh- this is what Dantoni wants!!! Why is he playing JJ? What is this cocksu*cker doing????SMH!!!!

 

[nyk_nyk]

Red - Props for this great post. D'ants deserves a lot of the blame for the Knicks poor start, a coach's job is to adjust the style of play and the game plan to his players. Adelman in Houston has done a great job in reworking that team's offense from a half court one with Yao to a motion offense
emphasizing ball movement and playing D. Can't say the same for D'ants, he's
so far stayed with the SSOL despite having a team that is 27th in the league in fg% and 25th in 3pt %. Why stay with an offensive philosophy when your players don't seem suited for it.

That is an excellent point. That's what I mean when I say Dantoni gets an "F" right now. Although we don't have a team built to win right now, you can clearly see that this particular offense is not the right fit for these group of players. First of all, our only true SG is not a good shooter and our SF who we play at SG is also not a good shooter. Second, our only true PG is mediocre at best and we play very little defense. Dantoni should promote more driving to the basket and have a goal of a certian amount of FTs he wants his team to attempt. Chandler is clearly better when he drives so why not encourage more of that? While Gallo is a good shooter, he would be even more dangerous if he drove to the basket more. Hanging out on the perimeter makes defending you very easy for the opposing coach.

Ultimately, as a coach you have to look at the players you have and play to their strengths even if its very little of it.

 

[KING~POETIQ]

Again, please point out where I manipulated your post. The premise of your argument has been that we have a talented team and it's D'Antoni's fault. Then you state in a different thread that our two best players would be bench players, or 3rd or 4th options, on better teams (i.e. talented teams). Just seems like a contradictory statement to me. Like DANUTZ39 said. You're the one manipulating your own posts.

Maybe you don't really know what "manipulation" means. Or maybe you don't really know what "talent" means. For someone who calls himself the Verbal Assassin, you really seem to struggle with vocabulary. By the way, who the hell calls themselves the Verbal Assassin?:teeth:




Now you're just being argumentative. You stated we have a talented team because they play in the NBA. That's a ridiculous statement. I said that was a realtive statement because they are more talented than the average person but not in terms of the NBA. Shall I rephrase it for you? We don't have talent relative to the majority of the NBA. Hence, why we are losing.



Where were these facts you presented? All you've said is that we have a talented team (an incorrect opinion) and it's all D'Antoni's fault. And the only thing you've based it on is that the run-and-gun system has never won a championship, therefore it can never win. That's faulty logic and based solely on opinion. I presented the VanGundy and Ewing examples to display your logical fallacies.

And D'Antoni has won with his system. He's made it to the Western Conference Finals, Game 7, which was robbed. They could have beaten the Spurs at home if Amare wasn't suspended. And we all know the Suns would have easily beaten the Cavs in the Finals.

I agree that a defensive strategy may give a team a better chance, but to say D'Antoni's system will never win because it never has is just being stupid.



So where were you when D'Antoni was hired? Why weren't you calling for D'Antoni to be fired last year? I do think D'Antoni should be held accountable and that he's not entirely free of blame. But to call for him to be fired 4 games into a rebuilding year is over-reacting and based solely on emotion.

And that's been the basis of my argument. Everybody is overreacting. I'll ask it again. If we were 4-2 right now, would you still be calling for D'Antoni to be fired?

D'Antoni has won in the past. That's a fact. We don't have a talented team. That's a fact. Ask any person that knows anything about basketball that isn't the typical Knick fan blinded by their love for the team. Everybody knew this was another throw-away year.

No coach could win more than 35 games with this group of players. I've been saying that all offseason. You on the other hand thought we could make the playoffs and are just bitter that reality has hit you in the face. SMH.

Discussing this topic with you has gotten real boring. You reiterate the same bullshit more than once and then decide to take a personal jab at me with something that has nothing to do with the topic.



I already told your dumbass that you manipulated my post by taking it from another thread that talked about a different subject. Not only that, but you misused it. Claiming that the post was about me saying that "our players had no talent", yet I clearly stated in that post that they would be playing a smaller role in better teams(i.e.- playing off the bench).



If a particular system has never won in 12+ years (G.S.+dallas+phoenix years combined) then how the fukk do you expect it to win now? Most of those teams had excessive amounts of superstars and they still could not win a championship. What are you expecting us to assemble the dream team? :lol:



By far, the stupidest shit you wrote was that paragraph that said how the suns were robbed and "if" amare would of been there...:lol:



Yea, maybe "if" d'antoni inherited the Dream Team, then his system would win a championship :lol:



*****, maybe "IF" you had a brain you would be able to comprehend everything that is being presented to you.



Or maybe "if" you wouldn't lurk all day on KO, you wouldn't be such a loser :lol:



And what *****, I call myself the Verbal Assassin. My words will have your ignorant atheist ass praying to GOD.

 

[donchris]

I never wanted D'Antoni. Tom Thibodeau was the man behind the man for a decade with a good defensive mindset. That's what the Knicks need. But in fairness all of this stuff about development and desire can't be blamed on D'Antoni. These have been Knicks issues for at least the past five years.

D'Ano is the big name coach to bring in a big name player. The offense is fun to watch and players seem to like it. That's good marketing, bringing him in. The issue is the talent isn't there. Say all you want about Galinari, he's good but this is his first real year. We can't and should not expect much from him. Not yet....

Everyone else, including Gallo are all role/bench players. None of these guys would start on a good NBA team.

First thing we need is a real center, shot blocker, low post threat and stop all of this jack up three's bullshit.

 

[jpz17]

God, I hate this fake ass moustache wearin' Italian-West Virginian!!!! If we needed better point guard play.... why didn't we get Jennings, why didn't he play Marbury, why doesn't he realize Douglas is better than Duhon. Why is he JUST NOW realizing we should try playing zone to help our dificiencies? Why isn't he playing Hill? Why didn't we get Lopez? Why isn't Chandler better and being used more? Don't blame Walsh- this is what Dantoni wants!!! Why is he playing JJ? What is this cocksu*cker doing????SMH!!!!

As a Knicks fan I am insulted by this post.

 

[Red]

They must've got the memo

"There was even a faint "Fire D'Antoni" chant off in the distance, which is never a good sign. Just ask Don Chaney, Lenny Wilkens and Isiah Thomas. The Knicks made the wrong kind of history Wednesday night by losing to the Atlanta Hawks, 114-101. The Knicks' 1-8 record matches their worst start since 2002-03..." -NY DailyNewsOk "IF"...D'antoni is so good, why are we off to a worse start than previously? Shouldn't a Great Coach such as Mustache make us better than we were? I guess this idiot seen the light in T-Doug, how long will this last? Now get Hill some minutes you incompetent moron. **Jpz how did I offend you- with whole he should of played Marbury line? Just saying... everyone keeps saying the system Needs a PG and I was just naming a few options. Like why didn't we get Jennings when Curry came off the boards- just to sit Hill- SMH!!!!

 

[A Ski]

Yeah what he said

Lets get van gundy back u pin hurr. Or mark jackson fo realz...

Van gundy is good but you may have a better shot with Mark if Dantoni can share the limelight right.:agreed:

 

[Kiyaman]

Get on the phone with Byron Scott to find out when he will be available.....Dantoni is stinking up the joint with a 1-8 start, and 9 different starting line-ups...

 

[jpz17]

Get on the phone with Byron Scott to find out when he will be available.....Dantoni is stinking up the joint with a 1-8 start, and 9 different starting line-ups...

SHUT UP ALREADY

 

[jpz17]

"There was even a faint "Fire D'Antoni" chant off in the distance, which is never a good sign. Just ask Don Chaney, Lenny Wilkens and Isiah Thomas. The Knicks made the wrong kind of history Wednesday night by losing to the Atlanta Hawks, 114-101. The Knicks' 1-8 record matches their worst start since 2002-03..." -NY DailyNewsOk "IF"...D'antoni is so good, why are we off to a worse start than previously? Shouldn't a Great Coach such as Mustache make us better than we were? I guess this idiot seen the light in T-Doug, how long will this last? Now get Hill some minutes you incompetent moron. **Jpz how did I offend you- with whole he should of played Marbury line? Just saying... everyone keeps saying the system Needs a PG and I was just naming a few options. Like why didn't we get Jennings when Curry came off the boards- just to sit Hill- SMH!!!!

you offended me with this:
God, I hate this fake ass moustache wearin' Italian-West Virginian!!!!

 

[TunerAddict]

Liek omg guise!

Lets just keep firing our coaches and GM every two years! Then we'll never have any continuity or foster any type of environment that will attract freeagents ever!

Sorry, but you want continuity. All we've done this decade is hire and fire. Time for some continuity...No player would want to come play for a team when the coach they came to play for might get canned at any time...