Game Thread: New York Knicks @ Cleveland Cavaliers 8:00pm 11/04/2015

[mafra]

I understand bashing Melo is the easy route, and his contract certainly warrants the reax... I mean, with the way this roster is constructed, NYK stand little chance to win a game if Melo can't score 30 points...


Melo has one of the worst owners in sports running the franchise. A rookie GM (think of Melo's supposed, #2 offensive option, newly acquired toys Phil has brought in, to help alleviate defensive pressure, the last two years: Calderon & Affalo - neither were able to even get on the court the first few weeks in their first season here and neither have helped win a single game since they've arrived). Think of the top 20 players in the NBA and name 1 star, who wins games, with less talent than Melo.


Melo doesn't even have a coach. The Knicks starters had another quality start to the game. Showing improvement again on that front. They score 32 in the first quarter... Then score 54 the next 3 quarters (with ten of those points coming after the game was settled). Did Fisher call a timeout? Devise a play or two? Did he try different lineups? He was invisible. Might as well been in CA with the ex-wife of his former teammate. Once again, he pulls PORZ in the second half when he gets into foul trouble... and by the time the kid returns the game is over. Did he not see that PORZ was our best offensive weapon tonight? Geez... i would prefer 8 points and then he fouls out, instead of sitting him and getting nothing.


Melo takes the floor every game at a disadvantage b/c no matter the opponent... the other team has the superior guard play. Most nights, that disparity is overwhelming... Calderon looks like he shouldn't even be in the NBA right now. The game ended the possession he handed it off to Lebron for a fast break dunk. Sasha seemed like the only player with fire and urgency but he is AT BEST the 4th guard on a decent team. Grant, despite often dribbling nowhere, is a rookie showing promise... but... not much help right now for Melo... Affalo will probably miss 40 games... Galloway doesnt frighten opponents. His shooting has improved, but he isn't a factor most nights. Tonight, Dellabedova and Williams looked like Stockton and Price.


Melo has no help (shooting from the outside or threat in the paint). Lopez was awful tonight. Ask yourself: how often do we see a fast break bucket, or even a drive and an alley-oop?


The body language was terrible tonight. Oquinn, Melo, Sasha and Porz battled. Seraphim a tad too. The rest looked like they wanted to go catch a movie. I want to see Fisher give us a Galloway, Williams, Melo, Porz, OQuinn look sometime. I realize Williams is out of control and a turnover machine with low bball iQ... But right now is not the time to bench him most of second half... With Affalo out... We need his offense. Get him going by playing him major minutes. See if he responds...


Knicks have scored 80 in back2back. Melo is the obvious scapegoat. He is culpable. But, he is rusty... His outside shot has betrayed him. He gets mauled when he drives to the hoop... It would be nice if his GM, HC, teammates helped him some. Even Lebron would struggle if Sasha, Calderon, Lopez started with him.


I am not giving Melo a pass here. I mean, that full court hail mary to Lopez was assinine. I mean, even if that were MJ or Worthy running down the floor. But, to throw that pass to Lopez who was awful tonight? Geez. This roster, especially sans Affalo, can only win if Melo carries the team. So, when we lose, if Melo doesnt score 30, he should be blamed. But tonight he held LJ in check, he rebounded, he dished out assists... Tonight, I call out Fisher, Lopez, Williams, Thomas, the guards... Bc they embarrassed themselves.


Still, for some reason, NyK led most of the game. PORZ looked incredible he outplayed Love. The schedule is brutal and we saw this coming. Losing on road in CLE, at home to SA and ATL isnt end of the world. But, clearly, if the team doesnt get vintage melo back soon, if Affalo is out until Feb, if we dont make deadline moves... We probably will be falling just short of the 8th seed.


With no first round pick and all that money locked up in Calderon next year... Ugh. Just think: we hadto sign all those aging vets years back... The Harrington and Hughes types... So, instead of winning 20 games, we won 28... Had we went the tank route when D'Antoni arrived... Instead of the hey, lets be somewhat competitive... Thanks to that idiot Walsh... We end up with Gallo over Westbrook and... Wait for it... Jordan Hill instead of Steph Curry. Instead of watching Westbrook and Curry as our backcourt, b/c Donnie Walsh is a moron, we get Calderon and Sasha... Is this a nightmare? So, until we put out a legit, nba level backcourt... Give Melo a break.

 

[tiger0330]

Nice post Mafra.

Affalo can't get back fast enough for me, I hope he's the goods. I'd trade Lopez and Calderon right now, Dec. 15 offer them both as a package deal and see if anyone bites. I doubt it, Lopez is getting 50% more than he should be getting, Phil should have signed him to no more than a 2 year 20M deal.

 

[Weissenberg]

The 2nd half was a straight-up disaster. I know it's still early in the season, so I still need more time to decide whether or not this Knick team is worth anything, but games like this are really depressing.

 

[Broadway]

Nice post Mafra.

Affalo can't get back fast enough for me, I hope he's the goods. I'd trade Lopez and Calderon right now, Dec. 15 offer them both as a package deal and see if anyone bites. I doubt it, Lopez is getting 50% more than he should be getting, Phil should have signed him to no more than a 2 year 20M deal.

Mafra provides more than window dressing posting but come on it was full of stale terrible apologies that we've endured since his arrival here. Mafra said "he wasn't giving him a free pass" but spent about 4 paragraphs giving him a free pass before saying this.

One of the major sells in acquiring Melo(most flew in the face of objectors) that he led the Nuggets to 7 straight playoff season with bad rosters? Well the East is supposedly lighter than the West and Melo can't at least make us seriously competitive? Lebron didn't have Kyrie nor Smith...spotted us 15pts and we still flamed out like the 17win team from last year. Or is this a roundabout way of admitting the league is better and what he did in Denver was totally irrelevant? We always try and have it both ways with Melo. If Melo can't lead this sorry bunch of guys then why were some still holding out hope Melo would be resigned by Phil?

The only thing I'll give Melo credit for, he's currently giving more effort on D and moving the ball a little better. But you see how low the bar has been lowered for an UNDERRATED SUPERSTAR? $125mil and we're unturning every stone of excuses?

I like what Grant #kporzee, and O'QUinn are giving us, but as we're seeing Lopez, DW, Thomas, Saraphin, Vujacic are near awful signings.

If we're honest with ourselves all we have to do is ask a basic question. How many of those guys fell into our Top 20-30 most wanted acquisitions this summer? Matter of fact I'll be more generous Top 50 most wanted? Maybe 1 of them(Afflalo?).

Come on it's practically unfair to regurgitate this again....please read from a different script and manufacture some new excuses. Melo's goose is COOKED!

 

[skisloper]

Melo just does not get............I assumed after surgery he would know its now or never.......
The guy is so inconsistent about ..........
He had Porzi opened for a wide open 3 but decided to take his jump shot anyway with a hand in his face...this was after he and porzi had sweet pick ad roll........then he dribbles out the shot clock after a 20 second time out....WTF ??????
Then forgets to guard Lebron on an inbounds play!!!!!!
MELO picks his moments....its one thing to not show up for a game but with Melo u never know what u are getting minute to minute......TRADE HIM if you can!!!!!

Mafra provides more than window dressing posting but come on it was full of stale terrible apologies that we've endured since his arrival here. Mafra said "he wasn't giving him a free pass" but spent about 4 paragraphs giving him a free pass before saying this.

One of the major sells in acquiring Melo(most flew in the face of objectors) that he led the Nuggets to 7 straight playoff season with bad rosters? Well the East is supposedly lighter than the West and Melo can't at least make us seriously competitive? Lebron didn't have Kyrie nor Smith...spotted us 15pts and we still flamed out like the 17win team from last year. Or is this a roundabout way of admitting the league is better and what he did in Denver was totally irrelevant? We always try and have it both ways with Melo. If Melo can't lead this sorry bunch of guys then why were some still holding out hope Melo would be resigned by Phil?

The only thing I'll give Melo credit for, he's currently giving more effort on D and moving the ball a little better. But you see how low the bar has been lowered for an UNDERRATED SUPERSTAR? $125mil and we're unturning every stone of excuses?

I like what Grant #kporzee, and O'QUinn is giving us, but as we're seeing Lopez, DW, Thomas, Saraphin, Vujacic are near awful signings.

If we're honest with ourselves all we have to do is ask a basic question. How many of those guys fell into our Top 20

 

[tiger0330]

Mafra provides more than window dressing posting but come on it was full of stale terrible apologies that we've endured since his arrival here. Mafra said "he wasn't giving him a free pass" but spent about 4 paragraphs giving him a free pass before saying this.

One of the major sells in acquiring Melo(most flew in the face of objectors) that he led the Nuggets to 7 straight playoff season with bad rosters? Well the East is supposedly lighter than the West and Melo can't at least make us seriously competitive? Lebron didn't have Kyrie nor Smith...spotted us 15pts and we still flamed out like the 17win team from last year. Or is this a roundabout way of admitting the league is better and what he did in Denver was totally irrelevant? We always try and have it both ways with Melo. If Melo can't lead this sorry bunch of guys then why were some still holding out hope Melo would be resigned by Phil?

The only thing I'll give Melo credit for, he's currently giving more effort on D and moving the ball a little better. But you see how low the bar has been lowered for an UNDERRATED SUPERSTAR? $125mil and we're unturning every stone of excuses?

I like what Grant #kporzee, and O'QUinn is giving us, but as we're seeing Lopez, DW, Thomas, Saraphin, Vujacic are near awful signings.

If we're honest with ourselves all we have to do is ask a basic question. How many of those guys fell into our Top 20-30 most wanted acquisitions this summer? Matter of fact I'll be more generous Top 50 most wanted? Maybe 1 of them(Afflalo?).

Come on it's practically unfair to regurgitate this again....please read from a different script and manufacture some new excuses. Melo's goose is COOKED!

I don't know about Mafra being an apologist seems to me he chewed the Knicks a new one, everyone down the line from Dolan to the equipment mgr. caught it Mafra's post, even said Melo needs to step up or face the wrath of the fans

I'm still giving them to the end of the month to see if this team is the real deal or we have the 35 wins TOPS that I predicted before the season began. If the Knicks do wind up being way under .500 in Dec with something like a 6-12 record maybe a positive that will come out of it is that Fisher starts taking some heat and stops being Mr. Nice Guy and trying to please everyone by giving them playing time.

 

[Broadway]

I don't know about Mafra being an apologist seems to me he chewed the Knicks a new one, everyone down the line from Dolan to the equipment mgr. caught it Mafra's post, even said Melo needs to step up or face the wrath of the fans

I'm still giving them to the end of the month to see if this team is the real deal or we have the 35 wins TOPS that I predicted before the season began. If the Knicks do wind up being way under .500 in Dec with something like a 6-12 record maybe a positive that will come out of it is that Fisher starts taking some heat and stops being Mr. Nice Guy and trying to please everyone by giving them playing time.

I saw the critique of the team...I was referring to the narrative on Melo. As far as the wrath from fans soon to come...uhmmm more borrowing of time. Melo has used up all his mulligans and those of another man's. Enough is Enough. I think we should be wondering...When will Phil Jackson's guts show up to compete against his decisions?

Fisher is borrowing time against the relationship he has with Phil and playing it off like he's cool hand Luke. He can always say "the next game we'll improve" or "there are signs of improvements of what we're capable of" etc etc.

 

[Tkf]

Mafra provides more than window dressing posting but come on it was full of stale terrible apologies that we've endured since his arrival here. Mafra said "he wasn't giving him a free pass" but spent about 4 paragraphs giving him a free pass before saying this.

One of the major sells in acquiring Melo(most flew in the face of objectors) that he led the Nuggets to 7 straight playoff season with bad rosters? Well the East is supposedly lighter than the West and Melo can't at least make us seriously competitive? Lebron didn't have Kyrie nor Smith...spotted us 15pts and we still flamed out like the 17win team from last year. Or is this a roundabout way of admitting the league is better and what he did in Denver was totally irrelevant? We always try and have it both ways with Melo. If Melo can't lead this sorry bunch of guys then why were some still holding out hope Melo would be resigned by Phil?

The only thing I'll give Melo credit for, he's currently giving more effort on D and moving the ball a little better. But you see how low the bar has been lowered for an UNDERRATED SUPERSTAR? $125mil and we're unturning every stone of excuses?

I like what Grant #kporzee, and O'QUinn are giving us, but as we're seeing Lopez, DW, Thomas, Saraphin, Vujacic are near awful signings.

If we're honest with ourselves all we have to do is ask a basic question. How many of those guys fell into our Top 20-30 most wanted acquisitions this summer? Matter of fact I'll be more generous Top 50 most wanted? Maybe 1 of them(Afflalo?).

Come on it's practically unfair to regurgitate this again....please read from a different script and manufacture some new excuses. Melo's goose is COOKED!

yea, I agree, enough with the carmelo apologies... Now he doesn't have a coach, before he didn't have help.. It is always something missing with carmelo, and it never has anything to do with him. Not one bit.. LOL..

If we're honest with ourselves all we have to do is ask a basic question. How many of those guys fell into our Top 20-30 most wanted acquisitions this summer? Matter of fact I'll be more generous Top 50 most wanted? Maybe 1 of them(Afflalo?).

good point, although guys like Oquinn, are playing hard and solid ball, no one here had him and lopez on their radar. And to be honest, the same can be said of Porzingis. The talk was okafor and towns, nothing else, maybe deangelo russel... But it seems like most diehards including the press are looking for all angles to talk this guy up as the next great thing.. So far I see a below average to average team with below average to average talent.. are we better than last year, yes, are we more competitive? yes.. but so is the rest of the league, and considering how bad we were last year, being better is not enough, we have to be light years better, and we aren't.... a big part of that is the declining carmelo anthony.... and trust me, the coach is not his problem..

next he says porz looked incredible, outplaying love? really? what game was he watching, love didn't play great, but good enough, add in Tristian thompson on the boards and they dominated the paint... porzingis getting in foul trouble was HIS fault, can't say he played incredible if you have to get benched for consistently being in foul trouble. .he was getting beat to position all night, finding himself out of position...

As far as carmelo, I am not buying that he is rusty, looking at a lot of preseason threads, people were declaring he was back and in shape.... yes I do see excuses being made for carmelo.

I will say this it may be better if the knicks start OQuinn and bring porzingis off the bench, where he can get more offensive opportunities..so far I really haven't seen enough from him to get excited about anything yet...

 

[mafra]

I got no problems if fans want to vent after every loss, and constantly harp on the same theme. Without a doubt, Carmelo Anthony and Phil Jackson have failed to live up to the hype... and the standard they set for themselves. Anthony deserves much of the heat, b/c he put money and scoring ahead of winning. At least in PHiL's case, there was a scenario where i could follow the logic behind some of his moves (and he probably found out quickly how hard it was to build something here in this city, with this owner, and that type of "superstar".


But I'm not going to jump to conclusions the first week of Nov. Sure, I see the writing on the wall... but I chose to look at each game individually, and see what the problem was on any given night... I mean, how often can we type that Melo is letting the team down with his poor shooting, and selfish shot selection, his lack of handle, and questionable decisions at times?


Last night, CLE was without its top 3 guards... Yet... Their 4th and 5th guards, on their roster, were the X factors last night and single-handedly kept CLE in the game (Knicks should've been up by 25)... Mo and Dellabedova were head and shoulders better than our 4 guards last night.


Fisher made two terrible blunders: playing Williams only 11 minutes... And then sitting Porz so long after his 4th foul. Does Fisher even know how to draw up an inbounds play during a timeout?


Now, people are entitled to their opinion... And everything is in context... I, personally, saw a lot of good things from Porzingis last night. He dunked on Love, he played solid defense on him too, he moves well and has a good feel for the game. He's competitive, he has excellent form on his jump shot, and he is 7"3. This kid is not F Weiss. We were told he would be a bust, a reach, or wouldn't contribute for 3-5 years. In my eyes, he looks like a quality prospect. Shabaz Muhammed, Anthony Bennet, Derrick Williams are examples of high picks who have fizzled. It's obvious Porz is a ten year player in this league. He may get hurt, and injuries might curtail his career... He may not be a perennial all star or a HOF player... But... A bust he will not be.


Anyway, for now... I am looking at Calderon and Lopez. They need to start contributing something. Tomorrow night would be a good time to start... MIL is coming for blood.

 

[tiger0330]

Completely agree about Zinger, barring injury he will not be a bust like Thabeet, Bennett, Robinson. Look at my sig, look at the athletic ability and size, looks like a man playing among boys and those boys under the basket are LMA and TD. I don't know if he'll be as good as Towns but it's going to be fun finding out.

 

[skisloper]

Completely agree about Zinger, barring injury he will not be a bust like Thabeet, Bennett, Robinson. Look at my sig, look at the athletic ability and size, looks like a man playing among boys and those boys under the basket are LMA and TD. I don't know if he'll be as good as Towns but it's going to be fun finding out.

Not sure hot to start a thread after all these years.......
Would anyone be up for a trade of Melo and Calderon for Rose and Mirotic

 

[tiger0330]

Not sure hot to start a thread after all these years.......
Would anyone be up for a trade of Melo and Calderon for Rose and Mirotic

Don't like Rose, doesn't play with pain like Melo, too injury prone plus he's no all-star any more. Don't like him personally either, all he could talk about at the team media day was his next contract and how much guys were making now and that he wanted to take care of his family.

Only reason to do this to me is for an earlier rebuild since Ros?'s contract expires before Melo's and to dump Calderon. Mirotic is a nice player but not enough of a difference maker to me, I guess if the Bulls were desperate to get Melo and would include a first you would think about it. And would Melo go to Chicago?

btw, you are the second guy that said he couldn't figure out how to start a thread. You don't see a post new thread icon at the bottom of the Thread Titles screen?

 

[DrB]

Getting to be a MELO hater too

Not sure hot to start a thread after all these years.......
Would anyone be up for a trade of Melo and Calderon for Rose and Mirotic

Whatever you are smoking get me some. Rose is an all star 33 points last night and Calerone belongs out of the league. Who would want Melo's contract. So ofcourse it would be great for the Knicks . A complete problem solver.

 

[tiger0330]

Whatever you are smoking get me some. Rose is an all star 33 points last night and Calerone belongs out of the league. Who would want Melo's contract. So ofcourse it would be great for the Knicks . A complete problem solver.

Yeah, he had a good game but his previous three he didn't score more than 9 pts. in either and people were asking what happened to DRose. It's Amare all over again if the Knicks get him, guy is injure prone.

 

[Tkf]

Yeah, he had a good game but his previous three he didn't score more than 9 pts. in either and people were asking what happened to DRose. It's Amare all over again if the Knicks get him, guy is injure prone.

rose is still better than carmelo, that is not in question, regardless of his flaws or recent play... mirotic is as talented as any young player on our team and that includes porzingis.. the bulls would slam the phone..

 

[Tkf]

Completely agree about Zinger, barring injury he will not be a bust like Thabeet, Bennett, Robinson. Look at my sig, look at the athletic ability and size, looks like a man playing among boys and those boys under the basket are LMA and TD. I don't know if he'll be as good as Towns but it's going to be fun finding out.

that is a bit overboard, he is a good athlete for his size, but nothing freakish about it at all..

myers leonard from the blazers is 7'1 and he is a better athlete than porzingis and I don't think its that close.. but to give porzingis some credit he is a good athlete for his size, but he isn't as fluid as some of these other 7 footers...

 

[Tkf]

I got no problems if fans want to vent after every loss, and constantly harp on the same theme. Without a doubt, Carmelo Anthony and Phil Jackson have failed to live up to the hype... and the standard they set for themselves. Anthony deserves much of the heat, b/c he put money and scoring ahead of winning. At least in PHiL's case, there was a scenario where i could follow the logic behind some of his moves (and he probably found out quickly how hard it was to build something here in this city, with this owner, and that type of "superstar".


But I'm not going to jump to conclusions the first week of Nov. Sure, I see the writing on the wall... but I chose to look at each game individually, and see what the problem was on any given night... I mean, how often can we type that Melo is letting the team down with his poor shooting, and selfish shot selection, his lack of handle, and questionable decisions at times?


Last night, CLE was without its top 3 guards... Yet... Their 4th and 5th guards, on their roster, were the X factors last night and single-handedly kept CLE in the game (Knicks should've been up by 25)... Mo and Dellabedova were head and shoulders better than our 4 guards last night.


Fisher made two terrible blunders: playing Williams only 11 minutes... And then sitting Porz so long after his 4th foul. Does Fisher even know how to draw up an inbounds play during a timeout?


Now, people are entitled to their opinion... And everything is in context... I, personally, saw a lot of good things from Porzingis last night. He dunked on Love, he played solid defense on him too, he moves well and has a good feel for the game. He's competitive, he has excellent form on his jump shot, and he is 7"3. This kid is not F Weiss. We were told he would be a bust, a reach, or wouldn't contribute for 3-5 years. In my eyes, he looks like a quality prospect. Shabaz Muhammed, Anthony Bennet, Derrick Williams are examples of high picks who have fizzled. It's obvious Porz is a ten year player in this league. He may get hurt, and injuries might curtail his career... He may not be a perennial all star or a HOF player... But... A bust he will not be.


Anyway, for now... I am looking at Calderon and Lopez. They need to start contributing something. Tomorrow night would be a good time to start... MIL is coming for blood.

You have to understand why Williams gets benched at times.. the guy is not good defensively and often loses his man. He does little else than score.. remember this guy, has been the same guy when given chances has not been effective overall. He has found some new life in NY, had some good preseason games, but lets not get carried away and start bashing fisher for sitting this guy.. a lot of coaches in this league have put williams on the pine..

 

[mafra]

You have to understand why Williams gets benched at times.. the guy is not good defensively and often loses his man. He does little else than score.. remember this guy, has been the same guy when given chances has not been effective overall. He has found some new life in NY, had some good preseason games, but lets not get carried away and start bashing fisher for sitting this guy.. a lot of coaches in this league have put williams on the pine..

While Affalo is out, Fisher is foolish to bite of his nose to spite his face. There is a time and place, and coaching is allabout understanding the nuances... All we need from Williams, right now, is his athleticism and scoring. Let him get adjusted to the triangle, allow him the freedom to grow confortable here... Support him with positive reinforcement... We were well aware of his deficiences when we signed him... Coaching is about maximizing talent... Williams, based on preseason and the first game, should be playing 24+ minutes each of these games...

Try to show him tape after the game... Coach him up... Then, when Affalo returns, if he doesnt improve in those areas, then starting taking away playing time. Hard to catch lightning in a bottle if you cork the glass and place it back in the pantry. Release the Kraken, grimace when necessary, and see if he averages 17 ppg.

 

[mafra]

that is a bit overboard, he is a good athlete for his size, but nothing freakish about it at all..

myers leonard from the blazers is 7'1 and he is a better athlete than porzingis and I don't think its that close.. but to give porzingis some credit he is a good athlete for his size, but he isn't as fluid as some of these other 7 footers...

where is the video of Leonard intercepting a pass, breaking away to the hoop, doing a barry sanders spin move at midcourt, breaking the opponent's ankle, then driving down lane for a dunk. Show me any 7"3 guy doing that... Porz did it, and posterized both LMA and KL (all 3 highlights in his first 5 NBA games, as a 20 yr-old).

 

[tiger0330]

rose is still better than carmelo, that is not in question, regardless of his flaws or recent play... mirotic is as talented as any young player on our team and that includes porzingis.. the bulls would slam the phone..

It's a moot point re: a trade with Melo. First call you have to make is to Melo to ask him his permission and you can tell he's pretty happy with the Knicks, they even had an article in the NY Post that says the Knicks are canonizing him to the public. Why would the Knicks try to trade St. Melo.