Game Thread: New York Knicks @ Minnesota Timberwolves (2014/11/18)

[tiger0330]

It's best for this team to get a lot better this season. Look at the Sixers. They're right back where they were last year, as far as winning goes anyway. Is there injuries on that team? I don't know.

Actually it seems odd what the Sixers are doing. They've been rebuilding and getting younger, but was trading a young player in Jrue Holiday a good idea? It's like they're going for the youngest team of all-time.

Joel Embiid is out the entire season. Looks like they'll get a shot at Okafor this year also but how many big men prospects can you draft?

I don't see it because they are bad but losing to the Sixers would be bad but didn't they beat us last year, though I think they still had Thad Young and a couple of other guys they traded away. Losing to this years 76ers squad would be disgraceful.

 

[Broadway]

It's best for this team to get a lot better this season. Look at the Sixers. They're right back where they were last year, as far as winning goes anyway. Is there injuries on that team? I don't know.

Actually it seems odd what the Sixers are doing. They've been rebuilding and getting younger, but was trading a young player in Jrue Holiday a good idea? It's like they're going for the youngest team of all-time.

So you use the team with worst example to compare, but not all the other great examples where it's showing signs or paying off


What about the Bucks getting Jabari Parker....2gms out of 1st place

What about the Wizards with Wall and Beal

What about the Magic with Vucevic and Oladipo

What about the Pelicans with Anthony Davis

What about the Raptors with Vacalunis, Derozan, Ross

What about the Kings with Cousins and Co

What about the Warriors with Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green


There is too many franchise changing players coming into this draft. And who said anything about being the Sixers lottery after lottery(they will be good sooner than you think) we're talking about having a crack 1 or 2 at these players, not several yrs in a row.

 

[htr10]

Yes you do when said player is playing a season in parallel, and putting up other worldly numbers. Have you heard of this kid by the name of Jahil Okafor? Catch some Duke games this year, a winning program btw and get back with me on this.

This Knicks team is PURE TRASH

Okafor would be a dream come true to get in next year's draft. But, c'mon, I have to watch us be terrible 69 more times this year? Can we at least try once Calderon is healthy first?

 

[RunningJumper]

So you use the team with worst example to compare, but not all the other great examples where it's showing signs or paying off


What about the Bucks getting Jabari Parker....2gms out of 1st place

What about the Wizards with Wall and Beal

What about the Magic with Vucevic and Oladipo

What about the Pelicans with Anthony Davis

What about the Raptors with Vacalunis, Derozan, Ross

What about the Kings with Cousins and Co

What about the Warriors with Curry, Thompson, Barnes, Green


There is too much franchise changing players coming into this draft. And who said anythign about being the Sixers lottery after Lottery(they will be good sooner than you think) we're talking about having a crack 1 or 2 at these players, not several yrs in a row.

That's not the point. Do you want our core to be bad this season? What good is that?

If you hypothetically just want to develop the young players this season and want them to have a regular rotation to develop chemistry than I understand, but tanking? No way. Also there are young Knicks players. I'm with htr10 on this one. I don't want to go through 69 more games of this. If Phil handles things right this off-season the team could have a bright future. Unlike the 2012-2013 team, this team is younger, so why not have the team go full force?

 

[Kiyaman]

The Knicks do not keep any of their first-round draft picks.
The Knicks first round draft picks has always been a commodity for a trade.
October 30th came n went, and so will Shump b4 deadline.

Fisher must make the playoff this season to get 2015 FA interested in signing with the Knicks.
And b happy with a 20 or below pick in the draft.
The Eastern Conference is weaker than last-season.
Plus the Knicks has a $90M salary cap this season .. Postseason is a must

 

[Broadway]

Okafor would be a dream come true to get in next year's draft. But, c'mon, I have to watch us be terrible 69 more times this year? Can we at least try once Calderon is healthy first?

Another oversold dream of an overrated player impact. Look at Calderon's career and show me evidence he's impacted a team's W-L column for the better. Now if this was Kyle Lowry coming back from injury I'd get your point.

We always hope against a season of futility all because the mathematics say we're still alive. No wonder we've sucked for so many yrs

 

[Broadway]

That's not the point. Do you want our core to be bad this season? What good is that?

If you hypothetically just want to develop the young players this season and want them to have a regular rotation to develop chemistry than I understand, but tanking? No way. Also there are young Knicks players. I'm with htr10 on this one. I don't want to go through 69 more games of this. If Phil handles things right this off-season the team could have a bright future. Unlike the 2012-2013 team, this team is younger, so why not have the team go full force?

The word TANK has been thrown around so frivolously but let's keep it real. If we play THJR/Shump/Wear/Larkin lion shares of minutes over other players calling it development we're still tanking. There's nothing wrong with this..... getting rid of vets who aren't part of the future for pennies on the dollar to speed up the process. The key is to not be a 54 win team 1 yr, then 33 the next yr, then 40 after, then 29 the next, then 37, then 48, etc etc.

The key is to get to the point you become a Spurs or Mavs type of franchise yr after yr after yr as it establishes a legacy and tradition of winning. We're constantly trying to catch lightning in a bottle, or flash in the pan, or 15sec of fame, or 1 hit wonder our way to success. It hasn't worked for over a decade and will not work over the next 4yrs.


Try a different route for once. I can see if we actually tried to emulate the Sixers and it didn't work but we've yet to remotely try and come close to what they've done. Once again I'm not advocating downright tanking but it's clear this group of trash we have is going nowhere and it doesn't have any level of sustained future success.


Just think how much POWER Phil would have if the Knicks landed a Top 3 pick or #1 overall. He'd be in a position of strength this summer. He would have so many teams coming to him with an untold number of options on the table. He would come to know lots of intel of what teams are willing to do and who's talking to who. He doesn't have to keep the pick it could be major leverage to move down in the draft acquire multiple picks and possibly another pick in next yr's draft one in which we don't currently own. He can clear remaining salary 2015-16 if he so desired.


But as things stand now trying to win 35gms this yr, you're begging for mediocrity for yrs to come.


Come this summer he doesn't have many options trying to go the free agent route, not for player who will truly change the course of this franchise. The top name being thrown around that we want, is Marc Gasol. Do you really want to throw Max money at Marc Gasol, really? He would eat all of our cap up, he's skilled but he's slow and older. Oh and btw the Grizzlies are a top team out West so why would he leave. Options after him have question marks all over the place in terms of fit and potential salary demand.


We groaned and hoped last yr chasing the seeds outside the Top8. We couldn't catch the 8th or 7th seed which much of this same trash roster with the above teams struggling. The East got better this summer unfortunately, go ahead look at the current standings. We will not be able to climb out of the deep hole we dug. The schedule is about to get extremely tough and guys are already starting to break down. We need to embrace reality and do the right thing for the long term

 

[paris401]

Look at Calderon's career and show me evidence he's impacted a team's W-L column for the better.

just what the doctor ordered... another 'No-D' player... and lets not 4get the I'Talian is coming back too... and we thought the season couldn't get any worse...

 

[Broadway]

Yes this team is truly interested in Marc Gasol in case there was doubt. The early cap figures being thrown around for next yr are $66-67mil. Gasol has been the league for 7yrs, starting his 8th next season. NBA CBA states players with yrs of service between 7-9yrs are entitled to 30% of whatever the cap figure comes to. Let's go high with $67mil

30% of $67mil=$20.1 1st yr starting salary. Marc can receive a 4yr deal with 4% raises on each yr. 4% of $20.1mil=roughly $805,000

So here's what we have

Year 1= $20.1mil
Year 2= $20.905mil
Year 3= $21.710mil
Year 4= $22.515mil

So we essentially replace Amar'e salary with Gasol. We're committed as numbers currently stand to $40mil in salary as Pablo has a partial guaranteed on his 2015-2016 salary.

$40mil + $20mil = $60mil


Players on the books for $60mil include Melo-J.R.-Pablo-THJR-Calderon-Early


Then you have to add another $1.5mil for our draft pick this summer. So we'll have roughly $62mil in committed salary with about $5mil to play with


Until we find out who we choose to pick which will be a rookie mind you we have...

- No Power Forward(Melo shouldn't be playing there),

- No defensive 2 Guard,

- An aging point guard core,

- Only 3 backups,

- Not much youth,

- 5 Men short of a 12 man roster,

 

[htr10]

Yes this team is truly interested in Marc Gasol in case there was doubt. The early cap figures being thrown around for next yr are $66-67mil. Gasol has been the league for 7yrs, starting his 8th next season. NBA CBA states players with yrs of service between 7-9yrs are entitled to 30% of whatever the cap figure comes to. Let's go high with $67mil

30% of $67mil=$20.1 1st yr starting salary. Marc can receive a 4yr deal with 4% raises on each yr. 4% of $20.1mil=roughly $805,000

So here's what we have

Year 1= $20.1mil
Year 2= $20.905mil
Year 3= $21.710mil
Year 4= $22.515mil

So we essentially replace Amar'e salary with Gasol. We're committed as numbers currently stand to $40mil in salary as Pablo has a partial guaranteed on his 2015-2016 salary.

$40mil + $20mil = $60mil


Players on the books for $60mil include Melo-J.R.-Pablo-THJR-Calderon-Early


Then you have to add another $1.5mil for our draft pick this summer. So we'll have roughly $62mil in committed salary with about $5mil to play with


Until we find out who we choose to pick which will be a rookie mind you we have...

- No Power Forward(Melo shouldn't be playing there),

- No defensive 2 Guard,

- An aging point guard core,

- Only 3 backups,

- Not much youth,

- 5 Men short of a 12 man roster,

If you don't like Calderon, then no matter what we do you won't really like the result because we're in for him for almost 8 million both next year and the year after. Personally, I think a trio of Melo, Marc Gasol, and Calderon is the best we are going to do for next season, along with THJ, Early, Wear, Acy, Prigioni, a 1st round pick, and possibly Shump, but obviously not the best we can do for the long-term future. I firmly believe PJ will find some way to get JR Smith off our roster before the end of the year, if at all possible.

 

[Broadway]

If you don't like Calderon, then no matter what we do you won't really like the result because we're in for him for almost 8 million both next year and the year after. Personally, I think a trio of Melo, Marc Gasol, and Calderon is the best we are going to do for next season, along with THJ, Early, Wear, Acy, Prigioni, a 1st round pick, and possibly Shump, but obviously not the best we can do for the long-term future. I firmly believe PJ will find some way to get JR Smith off our roster before the end of the year, if at all possible.

If you believe Phil will be capable of moving J.R. which I think my last post was a dosage of reality then...


I'd rather have a lotto pick to go with all of whom you said and possibly Gasol, instead of a 35-37win team who may or may not make the playoffs and an elephant dung pick. There's almost zero chance we keep Shump unless he takes his QO or J.R. opts out. If J.R. opts out then we're going to overpay to keep Shumpert, which will only compound mistakes for Phil.

 

[paris401]

I firmly believe PJ will find some way to get JR Smith off our roster before the end of the year, if at all possible.

if he is able to do that, he is the executive of the year...

 

[paris401]

If J.R. opts out QUOTE]

as they say..never say never... BUT... I don't see anyone that is paying JR 6.4m or anywhere nearto that $$$.. he brings nothing to the table... he doesn't help a contender, n if u r a 2nd/3rd tier team, u can get a JR type all day long for a lot less, with a lot less attitude...

 

[tiger0330]

The schedule gets tougher the next 15 or so games with the Mavs, Cavs, Heat, Wiz etc. Calderon and Bargnani are back in what should be a warmup game for them and the Knicks against the worst team in the league.

I think 3g4g, htr10 are about to find out whether the Knicks are a lottery team or 8 seed playoff team by Dec.

 

[disGRUNTled]

.


I'd rather have a lotto pick to go with all of whom you said and possibly Gasol, instead of a 35-37win team who may or may not make the playoffs and an elephant dung pick.

I am fully on the tank train this is the year to do it , Every time we lose I get excited about the possibilities of us landing a top 3 pick , I just hope we don't make a meaningless run at the end of the season to blow our chances ..I'll just go ahead and leave this here ....

 

[tiger0330]

I am fully on the tank train this is the year to do it , Every time we lose I get excited about the possibilities of us landing a top 3 pick , I just hope we don't make a meaningless run at the end of the season to blow our chances ..I'll just go ahead and leave this here ....

Okafur is a stud. I was thinking the 76ers would draft for need since drafting big men in the last 2 drafts but this guy is too good and skilled to pass up. The Sixers will pick him if they get the top pick.