Game thread: New York Knicks vs Boston Celtics 7:30 10/26/2019 [Game #3]

jimkcchief88

All Star
Heat won and I don't think Butler even played today.

Mitchell was the local kid (Elmsford). Shame on our scouting department and brain trust for not doing their due diligence. How a professional could evaluate all 3 prospects - DM, Frank and DSJ ? and somehow still feel Frank or DSJ was the option....

Knowing DM was the local kid, thrived at UL, and still get cute and go another direction? Damn! Those guys are fools.

Should all be fired for that alone missing on DM. I know other teams did as well but a local kid? Played at Louisville? Cmon man...
 
Uhhh yeah I think I am smarter than Clarence Gaines if he had anything to do with drafting Frank. And “Fail-Jackson” as a GM/President???? Please. If I remember Frank was Phil’s last stand before he got fired. So we are stuck with a “lottery pick” that plays under 10 minutes a game and does nothing in those minutes. You are newbie here but check my posts here for over a decade. I hate NBA GMs searching the four corners of the earth to avoid homegrown(Afro-American) talent. DM grew up in New York State and Kemba Walker who torched us last night is from the Bronx. But Fail-Jackson and Clarence Gaines go to Rawanda or France or wherever to over draft a benchwarmer in the lottery??? Even the crowd chanting for Frank like a college game cheering for the 12 man walk-on player and still no minutes? Please GTFO on Chief😡

One simple question: Can you show me in this forum where you were calling for D. Mitchell before the draft? I know you have it so if I can see it then you are smarter than Gaines. Just tell me where to find it. So you are smarter than the person that own the most NBA championships? You know about the game than the premier Coaches son in HBCU history? Clarence learn more at the breakfast table than most people in a life time. He has forgotten more about BB than most. Doesn't it make you wonder why Gaines chose Frank over Mitchell? Could it be because the guy with the most NBA rings was going to run a certain offense that won him championship. Simply put you wear a certain size shoe for your foot, well you get where I'm going. You might not like what I just said but I have no other explanation that makes any sense. Yes, I'm newbie to the forum. Been a Knick fan since 1965. I probably haven't seen as much talent as you. Give you a good example of avoiding HBCU talent. The year Jason Kidd was drafted as the supposedly best PG in america. There was a kid at TSU(Texas Southern Univ. just in case you didn't know) 6'5" and better than Kidd. Didn't get drafted. His name was Kevin Granger. "You hate NBA GM searching the four corners of the earth" well what about not giving a homegrown kid(HBCU) a chance instead of major college player. Not sure what you were getting at with that statement because it not like DM didn't get draft in the 1st round and it not like Frank isn't African. Again, not sure about the statement.

Now just show me were the find your post about drafting DM before the draft? Thanks
 

mafra

Legend
I think the prevailing sentiment was the pick should boil down to Markhenen, DSJ, Monk, Frank or Mitchell.

Donovan was a fast riser.... Pitino raved about him. When word surfaced he was in the mix, most of us felt trading down and targeting Mitchell was the wiser choice, than taking him at 8. Mostly, it was DSJ or possibly Monk if Marky was off the board.

Some wanted the offensive PG (DSJ), While some said go with defensive minded PG (Frank), while a few felt DM the ideal 2-way guy.

He was in the mix tho, and what a fail by our org for not doing their work. Phil said he wanted more than guys who can run and jump... not sure if DM didn?t have a great workout or if Phil slept the entire time.

Epic fail by Phil but even more so by us... we let him make the pick (then fires him afterwards). These are decisions that set teams back 5-10 years!
????-


The Knicks scouts loved Mitchell, but instead of plucking someone from their backyard and the son of a Mets executive, Phil Jackson went to France.

Frank Ntilikina became their pick at No. 8 ? for reasons similar to why Mitchell was intriguing. The Knicks viewed Ntilikina as a defensive stopper at 6-foot-5 with a 7-foot wingspan. Still, Mitchell wasn?t viewed as a lottery pick until June.

Nevertheless, Mitchell?s measurements are impressive, too. At 6-3, Mitchell possesses a 6-10 wingspan. Bryant calls him ?a plus-7? ? the difference between height and wingspan. Ntilikina, by that formula, is also a plus-7.

?Some of it was: Is he a point guard or shooting guard?,?? Bryant said. ?And if he?s a shooting guard, he?s on the smaller end. At the end of the day, he?s a guard and can play the 1 or 2. His size and length, it allows him to play bigger than he actually is. That allows him to be successful at this level. It?s his wingspan, work ethic and mindset. He?s been this underdog for most of his basketball career and plays with a chip on his shoulder.?

Mitchell has started most of the season while Ntilikina comes off the bench and averages 5.4 points. When Bryant spoke to Rick Pitino after the draft, the former Louisville coach raved about Mitchell?s ?competitive nature and pride to be the best player.?
 

Kiyaman

Legend
I think the prevailing sentiment was the pick should boil down to Markhenen, DSJ, Monk, Frank or Mitchell.

Donovan was a fast riser.... Pitino raved about him. When word surfaced he was in the mix, most of us felt trading down and targeting Mitchell was the wiser choice, than taking him at 8. Mostly, it was DSJ or possibly Monk if Marky was off the board.

Some wanted the offensive PG (DSJ), While some said go with defensive minded PG (Frank), while a few felt DM the ideal 2-way guy.

He was in the mix tho, and what a fail by our org for not doing their work. Phil said he wanted more than guys who can run and jump... not sure if DM didn’t have a great workout or if Phil slept the entire time.

Epic fail by Phil but even more so by us... we let him make the pick (then fires him afterwards). These are decisions that set teams back 5-10 years!
————-


The Knicks scouts loved Mitchell, but instead of plucking someone from their backyard and the son of a Mets executive, Phil Jackson went to France.

Frank Ntilikina became their pick at No. 8 — for reasons similar to why Mitchell was intriguing. The Knicks viewed Ntilikina as a defensive stopper at 6-foot-5 with a 7-foot wingspan. Still, Mitchell wasn’t viewed as a lottery pick until June.

Nevertheless, Mitchell’s measurements are impressive, too. At 6-3, Mitchell possesses a 6-10 wingspan. Bryant calls him “a plus-7” — the difference between height and wingspan. Ntilikina, by that formula, is also a plus-7.

“Some of it was: Is he a point guard or shooting guard?,’’ Bryant said. “And if he’s a shooting guard, he’s on the smaller end. At the end of the day, he’s a guard and can play the 1 or 2. His size and length, it allows him to play bigger than he actually is. That allows him to be successful at this level. It’s his wingspan, work ethic and mindset. He’s been this underdog for most of his basketball career and plays with a chip on his shoulder.”

Mitchell has started most of the season while Ntilikina comes off the bench and averages 5.4 points. When Bryant spoke to Rick Pitino after the draft, the former Louisville coach raved about Mitchell’s “competitive nature and pride to be the best player.”


If coach Snyder or coach Carlisle would have drafted Frank Ntilikina, then Frank would be a 30 minute starter in the NBA this season.
If Phil Jackson would've stayed an extra season, then pass-first Frank would've been in the starter lineup with D.Rose, Melo, KP, and Noah.

If the Knicks clueless front-office Mills/Perry would've resign the best player (DeAndre Jordan) they receive in the KP trade to a 2 yr contract in the offseason .. DSJ would be in the Knicks starter lineup alongside DJ boosting DSJ confidence on picknrolls and alley-oop points.

Rookie RJ Barrett has become a big issue in the Knicks rotation, the dynamic rookie RJ need to be pulled out of the starter lineup to become the Knicks 30 minute 6th Man ASAP.

Fizdale's NY record are 17-68 .. how many more Knicks games will it take for Fizdale to reach 20 wins under his belt as a Knick coach ???
 

Broadway

All Star
Frank owned Kemba this summer, so naturally Fiz opts to play DSJ over FN.

Folks... I hate to do this...

Time to fire Fiz before we squander a year of player development. This guy isn?t a HC.

This tired narrative of Knits locking up everyone as a means to play him is contrived as it gets. Harden, Mitchell, Kemba etc etc laughable. I've never used this kind of reasoning hey DSJ dropped a triple double against Spurs make sure you play him or Mudiay dropped a triple double against Pacers make sure we play him. I mean Kadeem Allen had better gms last yr than Knits and I don't hear any crying about his PT? What about Dotson...Trier still looks like a flash in the pan where are the human tears for his lack of playing time?

Listen if Knits was really good he would be DOMINATING in practice against our raggely team but he hasn't been. He's just an alternative to what is currently known ahead of him. None more so had we traded him to the Pistons and say Ish Smith was sitting on our bench currently
 
I think the prevailing sentiment was the pick should boil down to Markhenen, DSJ, Monk, Frank or Mitchell.

Donovan was a fast riser.... Pitino raved about him. When word surfaced he was in the mix, most of us felt trading down and targeting Mitchell was the wiser choice, than taking him at 8. Mostly, it was DSJ or possibly Monk if Marky was off the board.

Some wanted the offensive PG (DSJ), While some said go with defensive minded PG (Frank), while a few felt DM the ideal 2-way guy.

He was in the mix tho, and what a fail by our org for not doing their work. Phil said he wanted more than guys who can run and jump... not sure if DM didn’t have a great workout or if Phil slept the entire time.

Epic fail by Phil but even more so by us... we let him make the pick (then fires him afterwards). These are decisions that set teams back 5-10 years!
————-


The Knicks scouts loved Mitchell, but instead of plucking someone from their backyard and the son of a Mets executive, Phil Jackson went to France.

Frank Ntilikina became their pick at No. 8 — for reasons similar to why Mitchell was intriguing. The Knicks viewed Ntilikina as a defensive stopper at 6-foot-5 with a 7-foot wingspan. Still, Mitchell wasn’t viewed as a lottery pick until June.

Nevertheless, Mitchell’s measurements are impressive, too. At 6-3, Mitchell possesses a 6-10 wingspan. Bryant calls him “a plus-7” — the difference between height and wingspan. Ntilikina, by that formula, is also a plus-7.

“Some of it was: Is he a point guard or shooting guard?,’’ Bryant said. “And if he’s a shooting guard, he’s on the smaller end. At the end of the day, he’s a guard and can play the 1 or 2. His size and length, it allows him to play bigger than he actually is. That allows him to be successful at this level. It’s his wingspan, work ethic and mindset. He’s been this underdog for most of his basketball career and plays with a chip on his shoulder.”

Mitchell has started most of the season while Ntilikina comes off the bench and averages 5.4 points. When Bryant spoke to Rick Pitino after the draft, the former Louisville coach raved about Mitchell’s “competitive nature and pride to be the best player.”

Thanks for the insight into that conversation.
 

mafra

Legend
To me, it?s a head-scratcher that FN didn?t get into game second half last night. Walker was 7-12 from downtown.... was killing us. EP and DSJ were awful first 3 quarters...

If it were me, I would?ve planned on game 3 being Frank game. I would?ve made sure he was involved and part of game plan. Sure would. Why not see if he could repeat defensive results from earlier this summer?

Why not?

Now, it?s obvious he has no future here and Fiz/Perry want nothing to do with developing him.

I just have no idea why DSJ get into the game in second half, and Frank didn?t. Why not employ every resource you have to win a game? Obviously, our plan to stop Walker didn?t work. Who knows what happens if Frank was called upon.
 
To me, it’s a head-scratcher that FN didn’t get into game second half last night. Walker was 7-12 from downtown.... was killing us. EP and DSJ were awful first 3 quarters...

If it were me, I would’ve planned on game 3 being Frank game. I would’ve made sure he was involved and part of game plan. Sure would. Why not see if he could repeat defensive results from earlier this summer?

Why not?

Now, it’s obvious he has no future here and Fiz/Perry want nothing to do with developing him.

I just have no idea why DSJ get into the game in second half, and Frank didn’t. Why not employ every resource you have to win a game? Obviously, our plan to stop Walker didn’t work. Who knows what happens if Frank was called upon.

So True!!! Nothing to do with his development. Anybody connect with Phil and Gaines will get no help from Mills/Perry/Fiz.
 

mafra

Legend
So True!!! Nothing to do with his development. Anybody connect with Phil and Gaines will get no help from Mills/Perry/Fiz.

It?s biting off your nose to spite your face. It makes no sense. Even if it wasn?t part of the game plan, it had to be a go-to option in case of emergency.... but, nope.... as we sat helplessly and watched Walker stain wide open 3s, we also had to witness DSJ get booed off the floor. How lovely.

And, this blunder, comes after Fiz blew back2back games down stretch with his ill-conceived RJ at PG experiment. Tough to swallow.
 
DSJ out indefinitely due to a death in his family (his stepmother). The crowd booing him last night just seems messed up now. Fans didn?t know this was going to happen. Just a terrible sequence of events. I wish nothing but good will to him right now.
 
It’s biting off your nose to spite your face. It makes no sense. Even if it wasn’t part of the game plan, it had to be a go-to option in case of emergency.... but, nope.... as we sat helplessly and watched Walker stain wide open 3s, we also had to witness DSJ get booed off the floor. How lovely.

And, this blunder, comes after Fiz blew back2back games down stretch with his ill-conceived RJ at PG experiment. Tough to swallow.

It seen like management wouldn't care who draft a player. He is my player now and I want the best for him. That is not something I got out my conversation with Perry. He got a big ego just like DSJ. Maybe that is why he wanted him. I remember something Gil Brandt said about QB controversy "the best way not to have a controversy is by not having a controversy". All Perry has done since he's been here is cause controversy. Not bring back D. Rose, etc.

Quick Question: What solve these problems??
 

Broadway

All Star
DSJ out indefinitely due to a death in his family (his stepmother). The crowd booing him last night just seems messed up now. Fans didn?t know this was going to happen. Just a terrible sequence of events. I wish nothing but good will to him right now.


I do too, but he still needs to play better whenever he decides to return and gets his number called. Our fans are horrible, have been for yrs
 

mafra

Legend
Yeah, booing him off the court was low class. Not his fault Dolan and Mills and Perry and Fiz are overmatched.

He should?ve been DNP CD until he was ready to go.

Why have training camp at all?

RJ thrown around PG, DSJ forced down our throats....

Nothing this org does inspires confidence
 

mafra

Legend
After a strong preseason, Barrett has been even better in the regular season because he?s even hitting his 3-point shots ? not just muscling to the hoop with great body control and inside shot-making flair.

Barrett has achieved an impressive three-game milestone. The 6-foot-7 sniper and only one other player in NBA history have tallied at least 60 points and 15 rebounds and notched five 3-pointers in their first three games. That other player is Kevin Durant.

The third pick in the draft is now the Knicks leading scorer, averaging 21 points.

?He?s a stud,? coach David Fizdale said. ?That?s the only way I can put it. He?s a stud.?

He?s also averaging 5.0 rebounds, 2.7 assists and 2.7 steals. With efficiency feared as his biggest issue, Barrett is shooting 51 percent from the floor ? and 54 percent (7 of 13) from 3-point territory.

After Kyrie Irving beat Barrett on the step-back, game-winning 3-pointer Friday, the Nets guard wanted Barrett to know he?s willing to help as a fellow Duke alum.

?I just want to make sure that they understand that I?m here for them outside of the competitive field,?? Irving said. ?But you?re going to have instances in the NBA game where you see one of your Duke brothers or someone you went to college with and they?re going to ask you some questions. I?ve been in the league going on my ninth year now. And seeing RJ be so young and be so poised, really just play fearlessly, it?s great. Coach [Mike Krzyzewski] really prepared him for it. I?m going to see him for a few more years in the league, and just told him to stay calm and I?m always here.??
 

tiger0330

Legend
Pretty sure we see Frank as the first PG off the bench with the Bulls after yesterday otherwise the fans will be shouting Fire Fizdale along with We Want Frank after that stinker DSJ put up.

Watching that kid Coby White will be a treat for Knicks fans, he gets to anywhere he wants to get to on the floor, Frank may at least have a chance of covering him unlike DSJ.

DSJ out indefinitely due to a death in his family (his stepmother). The crowd booing him last night just seems messed up now. Fans didn’t know this was going to happen. Just a terrible sequence of events. I wish nothing but good will to him right now.
Reading Fizdale already decided Nits was coming off the bench ahead of DSJ even before the news of his step mom’s death. Advanced stats for him have the Knicks scoring 75pts and giving up 119 pts, per 100 possessions, OUCH.

It's an opportunity for Ntilikina, let's see if he can stop Coby White tonight and score some buckets.
 
After a strong preseason, Barrett has been even better in the regular season because he’s even hitting his 3-point shots — not just muscling to the hoop with great body control and inside shot-making flair.

Barrett has achieved an impressive three-game milestone. The 6-foot-7 sniper and only one other player in NBA history have tallied at least 60 points and 15 rebounds and notched five 3-pointers in their first three games. That other player is Kevin Durant.

The third pick in the draft is now the Knicks leading scorer, averaging 21 points.

“He’s a stud,” coach David Fizdale said. “That’s the only way I can put it. He’s a stud.”

He’s also averaging 5.0 rebounds, 2.7 assists and 2.7 steals. With efficiency feared as his biggest issue, Barrett is shooting 51 percent from the floor — and 54 percent (7 of 13) from 3-point territory.

After Kyrie Irving beat Barrett on the step-back, game-winning 3-pointer Friday, the Nets guard wanted Barrett to know he’s willing to help as a fellow Duke alum.

“I just want to make sure that they understand that I’m here for them outside of the competitive field,’’ Irving said. “But you’re going to have instances in the NBA game where you see one of your Duke brothers or someone you went to college with and they’re going to ask you some questions. I’ve been in the league going on my ninth year now. And seeing RJ be so young and be so poised, really just play fearlessly, it’s great. Coach [Mike Krzyzewski] really prepared him for it. I’m going to see him for a few more years in the league, and just told him to stay calm and I’m always here.’’

One question and one question only: When did RJ win a starting job position(PG, SG or SF)?? Didn't beat Dotson, Didn't beat Frank, Didn't beat Morris or Knox: So they put a square peg in a round hole at PG. If this hurt anybody feeling it not meant too. I see the same problem that existed with Trier from last year. Remember -- "Pass the damn ball". It funny that the two players with most freedom on the court are the starting PG & SG. If you don't see a problem, FINE!!!
 

mafra

Legend
We aren?t in practice, so it?s really hard to know what happened day in and day out. But he looks like a leader out on the floor,
Even telling vets stuff.

Dotson is a nice young player, but like Knox and Trier.... too inconsistent to depend on.

As stat provided above showed, only KD had a more impactful first 3 games debut in NBA history. Now, if you want to slide RJ to PG, then why not place Dotson next to him?
 
We aren’t in practice, so it’s really hard to know what happened day in and day out. But he looks like a leader out on the floor,
Even telling vets stuff.

Dotson is a nice young player, but like Knox and Trier.... too inconsistent to depend on.

As stat provided above showed, only KD had a more impactful first 3 games debut in NBA history. Now, if you want to slide RJ to PG, then why not place Dotson next to him?

No it not hard to know from what we the fans saw in preseason. I never saw him out play anybody in preseason. What I have seen is that Fiz/management is forcing RJ down our throat and say look we made a good decision.. so be HAPPY.

I beg to differ about Dotson being inconsistent. Dotson is again our most well rounded player vs RJ are anyone else on this team. So I'm not sure where you got him being inconsistent. Now if you can show me where Dotson is so inconsistent then I agree with you.
"If you want to slide RJ to PG, then why not place Dotson next to him". Thanks for proving my point about not winning a start position SG. Dotson didn't lose his starting SG job neither did Frank from what I saw in Preseason lose the starting PG job. I know damn well he didn't beat out Morris. Again, How is he starting?? Who did he beat out? If RJ is this great player that is being presented then there shouldn't be a problem say WHO HE BEAT OUT.
Quit trying to make a silk purse out of a sow ear. Please quit trying to compare RJ with impact players. RJ is not an impact player. Again, see Wes Unseld...that is the standard for a #3 for me. MOVE THE NEEDLE!! You and management can dress this up all you want 'he still a player that didn't earn a starting position'.
 

mafra

Legend
You must see something different in Dotson than I do. He had his chance last year and was mostly down when called upon.

RJ is twice the talent Dotson is, IMHO.
 
Maybe we did see different season. Last year Dotson came off the bench then started and average in double figures. In that crazy offensive scheme that Fiz was running that was very good. If Dotson was giving the minute or freedom to play a great role in the offense(if you want to call it that) his production would be a lot better. Dotson started year just like the start of last year with DNP. WHY?? So they can sell their wonder boy to Knick fans so they have something to cheer about. A FALSE NARRATIVE!!

Dotson is our best all around player the only other player that come close would be Frank(no offense). Again, I said close so that let you know we don't have anybody on this team that plays both ends of the floor better than them.

There are something that can't be taught because they come with that special talent a player has and possess. In Dotson rookie year he made some moves with the ball that you can't teach. I'm sure you know what I mean. I haven't seen any moves or athleticism that RJ has shown that comes close to what I seen in Dotson.

Finally, Dotson hasn't been given anything from Fiz. Nobody has told Fiz to start him. Nobody has told Fiz to play him when he getting beat like a drum. Nobody has told Fiz to play him on a super star PG and play off 6 ft from him(Irving). If it would have been either Dotson or Frank it would have been a different ending. Instead it a lose like year with Trier in London. Every minute Dotson has gotten is because he EARNED IT. Can you say the same about RJ???
 
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