Wrong about Timmy snapping out of his slump but KP got his 30 9rbs and Frank got 22 minutes in a nice debut plus we got the W. Jarrett Jack started thats worth another shot against CLE. Knicks Rule NY.
Game Thread: New York Knicks vs Brooklyn Nets 7:30 10/27/2017 [Game #4]
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jimkcchief88
All Star
Sounds like we got a win that?s crazy nets whoop the Cavs the other night now we ambush them woot!
Great game. I was really discouraged after the first three games and no Frank. I thought Frank looked great. I also thought the team looked good with Jack. Jack has a rep as a great vet to mentor young players. He might be considered the best in the league in that role. I think he ends up on the 15 man roster.
Ntilikina (aka Frank Nitty) seemed much more relaxed on offense, moved the ball around well, hit shots, and showed how his length can be disruptive. Considering this is his first decent outing vs NBA opponents (No Summer League, and 8 minute in preseason) Franks 20 minute performance showed he's a TOP-10 pick for sure.
Frank is still the youngest player in the league...and although you see his body filling out and hardening already, he has a long way to go. Doubt if he will ever be a Westbrook "explosive," but he will become a Chauncey Billups duplicate.
We saw a few high picks for him...but we almost look like we are running the Triangle at times .. and not very well as far as our spacing goes.
Frank's effect he had on our defense was astounding. He guarded and contested well vs every position. Excellent help defense. He honestly looked better than any rookie I've seen play overall for their first outing. He showed signs of greatness using his length. I couldn't be more thrilled with what I saw. Of course he's learning and very young but there is so much potential. Thanks Phil.
KP of course looked well when he take advantage of all the mismatched defenders down-low.
Kanter big-body in the paint is a beast. When we get the right coach and Kanter becomes the double-double beast for 24 minutes.
Quinn's Physical big-body defense is a Keeper!
I still want to see a 2nd-unit frontcourt lineup of Quinn/WHG/Mcderm .. having a backcourt tandem of THJ n Frank on the court for 8 straight minutes.
Jack is just what we need right now in the starter lineup tandem with SG-Cee.
I want THJ coming off the bench calling shots as our verbal offensive leader to get his confidence back.
I still want coach Horn/Rambis FIRED before the winter Holidays.
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This game was very encouraging in my opinion.
1) Between Sessions and Jack you there's no doubt that Jack is the more solid-looking NBA journeyman so I agree Sessions stays on the bench.
2) Frank is not your typical modern point guard, as Hornacek was happy to point out. That is, he is going to look to set up teammates instead of looking for his own shot. And when was the last time the Knicks had a point guard who is going to be able to defend the position? Still, he got comfortable shooting towards the latter stages of the game and if he can keep that up then he could and should be starting before 30 games have been played. And yes I hate the scoring point guard of the modern NBA.
3) On a related note, I found Hornaceks rotations baffling. Did Frank and KP play together at all last night??
4) I was very happy to see Hornacek yank the defensive loafer Kanter. Kanter is great around the basket on offense and is a really effective offensive rebounder but what good is that if you give up more points than you create? This is the kind of player that becomes a liability in the playoffs. Plus he never passes the ball!!
5) Willie I thought looked terrific for the most part. He got the message from his coach and he, like Frank, could-- and probably should-- be starting be the time 30 games have been played. He may not be as effective scoring as Kanter, but for his better defensive effort, his willingness to pass, and his desire to mix it up down low for rebounds, he will have earned a starting role. I think this is what we all want: to see Willie and KP and Frank out there playing together.
6) Hardaway-- what can be said? He is definitely pressing and you have to wonder how mentally strong he is, especially as he doesn't look like he wants to get locked in defensively.
7) O'Quinn and McDermott are looking like valuable bench players. O'Quinn looks like he will thrive now that he's playing with a younger, more hungry team. I know it's a stretch to say, but he may have a similar role in some ways as Draymond Green has. Passing, rebounding yes and then defense and shooting not so much but still...
The Lee/Hardaway situation needs to get sorted out.
1) Between Sessions and Jack you there's no doubt that Jack is the more solid-looking NBA journeyman so I agree Sessions stays on the bench.
2) Frank is not your typical modern point guard, as Hornacek was happy to point out. That is, he is going to look to set up teammates instead of looking for his own shot. And when was the last time the Knicks had a point guard who is going to be able to defend the position? Still, he got comfortable shooting towards the latter stages of the game and if he can keep that up then he could and should be starting before 30 games have been played. And yes I hate the scoring point guard of the modern NBA.
3) On a related note, I found Hornaceks rotations baffling. Did Frank and KP play together at all last night??
4) I was very happy to see Hornacek yank the defensive loafer Kanter. Kanter is great around the basket on offense and is a really effective offensive rebounder but what good is that if you give up more points than you create? This is the kind of player that becomes a liability in the playoffs. Plus he never passes the ball!!
5) Willie I thought looked terrific for the most part. He got the message from his coach and he, like Frank, could-- and probably should-- be starting be the time 30 games have been played. He may not be as effective scoring as Kanter, but for his better defensive effort, his willingness to pass, and his desire to mix it up down low for rebounds, he will have earned a starting role. I think this is what we all want: to see Willie and KP and Frank out there playing together.
6) Hardaway-- what can be said? He is definitely pressing and you have to wonder how mentally strong he is, especially as he doesn't look like he wants to get locked in defensively.
7) O'Quinn and McDermott are looking like valuable bench players. O'Quinn looks like he will thrive now that he's playing with a younger, more hungry team. I know it's a stretch to say, but he may have a similar role in some ways as Draymond Green has. Passing, rebounding yes and then defense and shooting not so much but still...
The Lee/Hardaway situation needs to get sorted out.
and1
Rotation player
i'm glad horn gave nitty as many minutes as he did. i think the kid alleviated some of the concerns. everybody got a decent first look at him.
i think horn did a good job coaching this game. he took kanter out for a lot of the 1st half when it looked like he was obviously struggling a little bit, but then gave him good minutes after he adjusted.
he replaced sessions with jack in the starting lineup and that obviously improved things.
hegave willy more minutes, which seemed to pay off as well. and he gave dotson some nice minutes in the 2nd half to give him some burn and experience.
it sounds like that last practice they had before this game really did make a difference, and you kind of have to give the coaches some credit for that. maybe he's figuring it out, and that's good.
i think horn did a good job coaching this game. he took kanter out for a lot of the 1st half when it looked like he was obviously struggling a little bit, but then gave him good minutes after he adjusted.
he replaced sessions with jack in the starting lineup and that obviously improved things.
hegave willy more minutes, which seemed to pay off as well. and he gave dotson some nice minutes in the 2nd half to give him some burn and experience.
it sounds like that last practice they had before this game really did make a difference, and you kind of have to give the coaches some credit for that. maybe he's figuring it out, and that's good.
Team effort, they took the Nets completely out of their game. Didn't look like the same team that beat the Cavs earlier this week. Lebron was impressed with how well the Nets passed and shared the ball and I thought the same watching the Cavs/Nets game was how well they were running their offense. Knicks pressure, ball denial and interior defense kept them from running that crisp passing offense they ran against the Cavs and the other teams they've run out of the building this season. Quinn a little under rated with his 12rbs 5 offensive in only 18 minutes, we killed them on the glass 55-34. KP monster game, contributing on both ends. We can play all our big men, Kanter is too good to bench him, maybe Horn can play them all 20 mins and let them all go 150% for their 20 minutes, KP did his thing in 29 mins not 35. I think Horn has found a PG combo that works Jack starting and Frank 1st off the bench, maybe by Jan Frank will have earned the chance to start.
Really Doug and WHG should be starters, we can flip a coin on Lee and THJR. It was a very well played game last night.
mafra
Legend
?We came out the gate and they were the more aggressive team,? Nets forward DeMarre Carroll said. ?Credit to them. They basically just kicked our butts. They threw it up at the goal and just knocked us out of the way and went and got it.?
That?s about the size of it. Brooklyn got outrebounded 55-34 and got bludgeoned by a mind-bending 19-4 margin on the offensive glass.
?We just didn?t compete,? Nets guard Allen Crabbe said. ?Give them credit. They played harder than us. They came more prepared, killed us on the second-chance points, 31-6. You?re really not giving yourself a chance when they shoot 30 more shots than you do.?
It was actually 24 more shots.
?They had a higher energy level. They were the more physical team,? coach Kenny Atkinson said. ?We couldn?t keep them off the boards ? 19 offensive rebounds, 31 second-chance points. It?s tough to win on the road like that.
?Porzingis is a great player. I think it was everywhere. I think we were porous in the post against Kanter. We were porous in the post against Porzingis. They got middle on us in the post a bunch of times, and then when they did miss, we couldn?t get the [rebound].?
That?s about the size of it. Brooklyn got outrebounded 55-34 and got bludgeoned by a mind-bending 19-4 margin on the offensive glass.
?We just didn?t compete,? Nets guard Allen Crabbe said. ?Give them credit. They played harder than us. They came more prepared, killed us on the second-chance points, 31-6. You?re really not giving yourself a chance when they shoot 30 more shots than you do.?
It was actually 24 more shots.
?They had a higher energy level. They were the more physical team,? coach Kenny Atkinson said. ?We couldn?t keep them off the boards ? 19 offensive rebounds, 31 second-chance points. It?s tough to win on the road like that.
?Porzingis is a great player. I think it was everywhere. I think we were porous in the post against Kanter. We were porous in the post against Porzingis. They got middle on us in the post a bunch of times, and then when they did miss, we couldn?t get the [rebound].?
Watching the game again the Knicks started the game playing off the height of starters Kanter n KP to take the lead the first 6 minute of the game, then Nets closed in to tie then the Nets took a 24-14 lead over Knicks on Acy's 3 ball shooting with 2 minute left in first quarter .. Horn took out Kanter, KP, THJ, and Jack and replace them with Quinn, Mcderm, Beas, and Frank, Cee stayed in the lineup, and these guys came-up with a great scoring team-defense that ended the first quarter with a 28-23 Nets lead. Cee was taking out the lineup for THJ to start the 2nd quarter .. Quinn/Mcderm/Beas/THJ/and Frank .. this Knicks lineup tied the game at 29 a piece the first 2 minute in the 2nd qtr. when Frank dime to Quinn to take a 35-34 Knicks lead the Nets called timeout with 7 min remaining in 2nd quarter, Horn replaces Quinn with WHG the score becomes 37 a piece at the 6 minute mark in 2nd qtr. when Horn substitution put Jack, Cee, and KP back in the game taking out Frank, THJ, and Beas, going with a lineup of WHG/KP/Mcderm/Cee/and Jack, with the game going back in forth Knicks had a 44-40 lead when Horn took out Mcderm and replace him with Lance having 2 min remaining before halftime, KP n Jack free throws gave the Knicks a 47-42 lead at halftime.
The Knicks starters lead by KP charge in the 2nd half grabbed a 14 pt lead the first 4 minute of the 3rd qtr. having a 58-44 Knicks lead that never looked back from that point on using a 11 Man rotation.
This game convince me we need to get rid of Jeff Horn n Rambis ASAP !!!
The Knicks starters lead by KP charge in the 2nd half grabbed a 14 pt lead the first 4 minute of the 3rd qtr. having a 58-44 Knicks lead that never looked back from that point on using a 11 Man rotation.
This game convince me we need to get rid of Jeff Horn n Rambis ASAP !!!
All this says is that the Knicks were a better team last night with Kanter on the bench. He was rightfully benched and the Knicks without him seized the game. When his punishment was over he came back out with the starters and played defense like he should. Why do Rambis and Coach need to be fired? Coach made a key decision benching Kanter. The brain trust of Mills/Perry/Coach wanted to establish a defensive identity and Coach is following through with the plan.
Last night I saw a Knicks team actually playing smothering defense-- and I was loving it. When was the last time we have seen that?
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mafra
Legend
I agree... we need some continuity.... let Horn coach this team all year and see afterwards how much effort they gave and how much he got out of this talent.
Wins and losses are meaningless this year. We need to see a team fight for each other. Play defense. Give effort.
KP needs to show he's a budding star; Frank needs to show signs he can run an offense. THJr, Kanter and WHG need to prove they can score. McDermott and/or Beasley need to prove they can be a reliable rotation piece.
From what I saw last night... we add a top lottery pick this Summer and a big free agent summer after that.... we should be a legitimate playoff team by 2019-2020 season.
Wins and losses are meaningless this year. We need to see a team fight for each other. Play defense. Give effort.
KP needs to show he's a budding star; Frank needs to show signs he can run an offense. THJr, Kanter and WHG need to prove they can score. McDermott and/or Beasley need to prove they can be a reliable rotation piece.
From what I saw last night... we add a top lottery pick this Summer and a big free agent summer after that.... we should be a legitimate playoff team by 2019-2020 season.
and1
Rotation player
yeah, i don't see how these adjustments - benching kanter until the 2nd half, starting jack, etc. - are an indictment on coach horn. if anything i think it buys him some leniency, at least for a little while.
mark jackson is not coming to coach the knicks anytime soon.
The coach did not bench Kanter for playing bad .. there were to many sports writers/announcers (especially ESPN crew) making comments bout the 0-3 Knicks not giving playing time to last season outstanding rookie Willy, nor giving any playing-time to their lottery 8th pick rookie Frank Ntilikina aka Frank Nitty.
Having Noah out with suspension, Hornacek proved last season and at the start of this season he is clueless of coaching big-men in the rotation, plus Rambis has been no help as a bench coach in a game.
Knicks opponents has problem in the paint getting physical with Kanter/Quinn/and WHG .. why these 3 BIGS did not average 20 minute of playing time each once the regular season started? Was it because our long term plan is tanking so our coaching-staff did not bother to implement a plan or system for the players to perform as a team.
Hornacek's a FOOL for not knowing how New York Fans and media were going to act after a 0-3 blowout start.
What u seen last night when Frank Nitty got on the court was Knicks teammates following Frank dynamic defense performance.
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Yeah sure looks like we see things differently and have a different set of values as well. Main thing is you see in an overarching POV an alleged incompetence, media pressure, and coaching decisions made from that-- while I see a simple plan of defense-first and ball movement shared between the President, GM, and coach.
To that point, again, last game Kanter was removed AFTER he loafed back on defense, allowing Mozgov a 4-lane highway to the hoop. When Kanter digested his punishment and returned to the game with greater verve on defense, I saw good coaching and a willing teammate. If you did not see that then I think your fingers are not on the pulse of the team.
Coincidentally, Frank entered the game and started playing defense that either catalyzed the team to play defense or he elevated the team defense further than before. Win-win-win, that last win being the fact that defense won the game for us which is just as it should be. And WHG focussed much more of his energy on defense than we have seen so again-- the coach gets credit for that, as does the player for following instructions.
Lastly, the piss poor defense last year was due to Melo and Rose not playing any, and that is contagious, driving down morale. Kanter and this year's Knicks roster are all going to be held accountable.