Game thread: New York Knicks vs Toronto Raptors 7:30 1/24/2020 [Game #46]

[Broadway]

I thought Randle was good. He put up a double double along with 3 blocks and one steal. He turned the ball over 3 times not 4 but other guys had 3 TOs. The starting 5 all had positive +/- so they were competitive with the Raps starters, our 2nd unit weren't posting -11 or worse +/-. The lack of development among the young guys Knox, Nits, MRob, Trier, DSJ is striking, good luck if the Knicks are relying on those guys to be the foundation of our future.

I'm not watching another game until those two are traded. They are the ones who have been on the longest leash to improve and they haven't one lick. There isn't anything I like about their game, NOTHING!I hate the fact we drafted them, like what were we thinking?

I said Knox would disappear after the good showing 2 weeks ago. These two literally have the same stats as their previous seasons, 2 and 3yrs respectively.

Absolutely Disgraceful!

 

[tiger0330]

Never saw so much hate for a guy Randle that's our second best scorer and leading rebounder. He's also got a PER that ranks up there with KP, Milsap and Jaren Jackson currently 24th out of 67 PF. He's not making mega bucks either, signing a total contract that has 56M guaranteed. He's been put in the main man role and he's never been and maybe never will be and that's something I was concerned about but he's a decent piece to have.

 

[tiger0330]

Siakum and Vanfleet entered league at 22.... took them 3 seasons to become budding all-Star caliber players....

Why?

Referring to his own young players, including three main cogs who spent time in the G League, Raptors coach Nick Nurse said, “I’m a firm believer that they need to be playing. They’ve got to play. How do you get any better if you’re not playing?

“I’m a big, big believer that if they’re not getting minutes with the big club that they’ve got to go down and play as many minutes as they can down there.”

Yet, we have 19/20 year-olds withering on the vine. Give TOR our young guys and they’ll develop. Siakum and Vanfleet would prolly suck if they were here.

They were talking about some coach named Jeff Saan who ironically used to work for the Knicks who is in charge of th Raps player development, what struck me was the guy works on a daily basis with Siakam improving his game. Have we ever heard that about Craig Robinson? That he gets out of that business suit and teaches the game to our young players. Secret sauce my butt.

 

[mafra]

Randle is Ok. I prefer him over KP next 3 years.... Still, for a dude earning 20 mil a year.... is it a lot to ask to stop having people double you and take ball from you?

Randle a lot luke Kanter, in that his negatives are so glaring they diminish his strengths

The main reason I want him gone is bc he?s worthless down the stretch of games, he?s an awful fit next to MRob, and he?s blocking Knox.

We can sign Morris, Bullock and keep Randle and continue to lose 50 games a season.... or we can keep looking for lottery talent until we are on the upward trajectory.

Morris and Randle are ideal bench, rotation players on winning teams.

Nothing against them as men... Randle is Kurt Thomas to me. I?m fine if he stays... but I don?t think Morris and Randle will allow this roster to develop... they want to be the main options here...

 

[mafra]

Nurse delved deeper into his player development strategy. It requires patience and risk. It also helps that the Raptors, unlike the Knicks, are often winning.

?We try not to evaluate it daily. We say go to work daily but evaluate periodically,? Nurse said. ?We try to have a little bit of a vision of taking it slow. You don?t want to throw them into too much, too soon. But you also want to find out once in a while if you give them a chance to play against a first unit team on the road, start a game or do something different.?

There wasn?t much difference from the Knicks on Friday. They played hard and close, but ultimately lost to a better team. Siakam buried two big shots late with Ntilikina, Knox and Smith Jr. all watching from the bench.

 

[tiger0330]

Randle is Ok. I prefer him over KP next 3 years.... Still, for a dude earning 20 mil a year.... is it a lot to ask to stop having people double you and take ball from you?

Randle a lot luke Kanter, in that his negatives are so glaring they diminish his strengths

The main reason I want him gone is bc he’s worthless down the stretch of games, he’s an awful fit next to MRob, and he’s blocking Knox.

We can sign Morris, Bullock and keep Randle and continue to lose 50 games a season.... or we can keep looking for lottery talent until we are on the upward trajectory.

Morris and Randle are ideal bench, rotation players on winning teams.

Nothing against them as men... Randle is Kurt Thomas to me. I’m fine if he stays... but I don’t think Morris and Randle will allow this roster to develop... they want to be the main options here...

Interesting that you should say that JR is a poor fit with MRob, yet when we've used a 5 man lineup of MRob JR RJ Payton MM we had a 7-7 record with a slightly positive net rating of .4. I guess you mean the floor spacing isn't ideal with the 2 in the game but if JR could become an avg. 3 pt shooter it would help the spacing.

 

[mafra]

Interesting that you should say that JR is a poor fit with MRob, yet when we've used a 5 man lineup of MRob JR RJ Payton MM we had a 7-7 record with a slightly positive net rating of .4. I guess you mean the floor spacing isn't ideal with the 2 in the game but if JR could become an avg. 3 pt shooter it would help the spacing.

Yeah, I?m thinking of young Dwight Howard playing with Rashad Lewis in ORL. That?s ideal for Knox and MRob.

 

[Dark Raider]

Someone criticize Dotson for letting "Siakum free lane to basket" including Clyde. I get it. First of all it was Dotson man!! Secondly it was MM defending Siakum not Dotson. And MM was side by side with Siakum. Dotson release and went to defend his man at the arc. In his defend Raptors were hitting their 3's so he went to defend his man. Which they were kick out passes to arc. Poor defend on MM not Dotson.

If you know BB then know the first thing in defensive is to stay with your man not somebody else man. Don't leave your man and go under the basket to rebound... he at the arc or that create a domino effect with the other team mates. Sound like someone you might know?

 

[Dark Raider]

Did anyone notice the Lakers bench with McGee, Howard and Cousins. Their interior defend was very good as they change out Centers. Just think we could have had both Howard and Cousins(if you wanted to gamble on a hurt player). Cousins was always my 1st any only choice in F.A. By adding him that would have given us the cornerstone to build around.

 

[mafra]

MM got picked, ergo why they were side to side. Dot is supposed to present himself and stop the penetration... instead he faked like he was going to get in front of Siakum, then released to cover the perimeter.... this gave Siakum a free run to basket, which he gladly accepted and dunked ball.

MM also said in post game presser that he got no help on those screens late, especially the nail in coffin play afterwards when Siakum drained a three.

If you can call out poor defensive effort on RJ, then you can?t excuse a terrible defensive play that cost team the game.

It happens. Dotson was a minus 9 despite his 21 points. He normally defends with effort. He made a poor choice and it hurt his team.

You see, when players get minutes their flaws get exposed.

 

[Dark Raider]

I didn't see a pick on MM on that play. Let say you are correct. If you know BB then you would know that whomever was involved in the pick of MM should have roll with Siakum. Now if you recall Dotson in front of Siakum so it wasn't Dotson man that set the pick. And if you really want to get technical if it was Dotson man then MM should have switch letting Dotson take Siakum but as you know that didn't happen. Raptors had been hitting their 3's so Dotson did the only thing he was suppose to do and that was go cover his man if MM didn't switch.

How in the hell did that play cost us the game? You must didn't see the pass Payton threw to the Raptor in the final minutes. You didn't see the inbound pass from Bobby to 3 Raptors around Randle and Payton. Don't lie!!

As for calling out RJ poor defensive effort. First of all it has to be an effort. The whole season he has been losing his man, running trying to caught up with his man then just letting him go and going under the basket to rebound. How do you think he been playing all those minutes?? It because of what I just mention. The one time he played or tried to play defense was in the game he got hurt. For trying to play defense he immediately got into foul trouble. HOW IN THE HELL DID HE WIN A STARTING JOB FROM DOTSON?? HE DIDN'T!!!

You are correct when players get minutes their flaws get exposed. Been saying that to you the whole season. Glad it sinking in!!

 

[Dark Raider]

Went and look at the game and you were correct it was a high pick set Dotson man(Lowry) on the dump and the 3 by Siakum.

Not trying to be right about the above plays. Dotson at the 4:58 mark (I think) was pick by Marc G.(Bobby P. guarding him) at the top of the arc. Bobby didn't switch and Dotson fought over the pick but was to late and Lowry hit a 3. On the next Raptors possession the same thing happen but this time Bobby P. switch(Lowry lost the ball, I think) and Dotson stay with Marc G. On the next Raptors possession they tried the play again and again Bobby P. switch(block Lowry shot driving to the basket) with Dotson staying on Marc G.

If I'm Dotson then there should have been a switch both times with MM because that is what happen and should have happen on all 3 of the above plays. If you watch both plays Dotson is looking for the switch but it doesn't happen so he goes back to defend his man. On the 3 pt shoot Dotson saw MM leave his man(Lowry) at the top of the arc while Siakum was 4 or 5 feet above the arc. Maybe he thought MM could recover the D. on Siakum if not his man was complete wide open at the arc(making his last 3 from there).

Again not trying to be right but just saying what happen on defense plays before those 2 happen.

 

[Kiyaman]

Never saw so much hate for a guy Randle that's our second best scorer and leading rebounder. He's also got a PER that ranks up there with KP, Milsap and Jaren Jackson currently 24th out of 67 PF. He's not making mega bucks either, signing a total contract that has 56M guaranteed. He's been put in the main man role and he's never been and maybe never will be and that's something I was concerned about but he's a decent piece to have.

Randle being given the first option on offense, plus made captain of the Knicks are to much for a Die Hard Knicks Fan to swallow.
Especially, after watching Randle-Handle 4th quarter performance in 44 games that lead to only 12 wins.
There's NO Hate for Randle-Handle .. It's just Randle's Team-Leadership is the same as Tim Hardaway Jr., and Iso-Melo, and Starbury.

Randle would probably be a decent 28 min PF .. If the off-season Knicks FO would have resign DeAndre Jordan, and traded with Rockets to get the HOF Chris Paul to run the Knicks 2019-20 season. Chris Paul's clout would've had NY reporters get the no-defense ISOLATION head-coach Fizdale fired during the preseason games. The rookie RJ Barrett would started the season as a pass-first guard/forward, Randle would've been a hustling-player giving good Picks and Screens for teammates while playing off the ball.
Frank would've been improving at leading the point, plus calling several plays, instead of passing the ball and running to the right side of the court to be taken out the offense. Dotson performance would've improve each game having CP3 in the lineup to become a decent 2-Way 30 minute player. Plus Chris Paul would've had FortKnox select 4 places on the court where his Jumper falls 70% of the time, plus set up screens for FortKnox to slash to the basket.
Chris Paul .. like Jason Kidd would have played the final 8 minutes of the 4th quarter to give the Knicks a 50-50 chance for the win throughout the 2019-20 season.

 

[Kiyaman]

Went and look at the game and you were correct it was a high pick set Dotson man(Lowry) on the dump and the 3 by Siakum.

Not trying to be right about the above plays. Dotson at the 4:58 mark (I think) was pick by Marc G.(Bobby P. guarding him) at the top of the arc. Bobby didn't switch and Dotson fought over the pick but was to late and Lowry hit a 3. On the next Raptors possession the same thing happen but this time Bobby P. switch(Lowry lost the ball, I think) and Dotson stay with Marc G. On the next Raptors possession they tried the play again and again Bobby P. switch(block Lowry shot driving to the basket) with Dotson staying on Marc G.

If I'm Dotson then there should have been a switch both times with MM because that is what happen and should have happen on all 3 of the above plays. If you watch both plays Dotson is looking for the switch but it doesn't happen so he goes back to defend his man. On the 3 pt shoot Dotson saw MM leave his man(Lowry) at the top of the arc while Siakum was 4 or 5 feet above the arc. Maybe he thought MM could recover the D. on Siakum if not his man was complete wide open at the arc(making his last 3 from there).

Again not trying to be right but just saying what happen on defense plays before those 2 happen.

Last season on the Boston Celtics Morris & Hayward were the teams worst defensive switching players !!!
Spurs coach Pop figured that's the only weakness he would have to fix on Morris performance.
The inexperience coach Fizdale were to blind to notice that Portis, Randle, and Morris are poor defensive-switching players, which is why the Knicks has 34 LOSSES in 46 games !!!