Knicks V Pacers - Mar 13 + 15: Home And Away Double Thread Special

[iSaYughh]

I've never felt as bad as I did on draft night when GSW selected Curry (he made it so close) and then we draft Hill! Talk about a disastrous turn of events.

I thought Felton had a chance... #s close to where Nash was at same point in their careers. But NASH is one of a kind, right?

As for this draft... MAN, if we could get Kyrie Irving (he is Rod Strickland all over again). Wont happen though. I will live with Walker QUICK) or Federette (SHOOTER) though.

One of those and DeAndre Jordan or Marc Gasol?

So, that's what we have... Let Billups walk and get a BIG or keep Billups and hope Jerome Jordan worked hard this winter.

Exactly. We need to powermove this draft for a PG (can we do that one goddamn time?), and get at least one righteous big.

We must do this, even if it means letting Billups go, depending on how we look rest of season/playoffs. It'll be a judgment call on whether we can have a true shot at contending next yr by essentially standing PAT.

We have the least productive 5 in the entire NBA. On a team where our greatest weakness is most effected by that very position.

Irivng is indeed sick, but right now I'd salivate if we could secure Kemba (or Jimmers). The way Douglas is progressing, a Douglas+Jimmers tagteam can be good enough on this team, even in year 1.

Jordan is Jeffries...plus an extra 10points, a block and a half, 5+ boards, the ability to dominate, and altogether superior defense and enforcing abilities,

Imagine how wed look if that man and his production would be replacing Jeffries each and every game....

 

[Clyde & The Pearl]

I've never felt as bad as I did on draft night when GSW selected Curry (he made it so close) and then we draft Hill! Talk about a disastrous turn of events.

I thought Felton had a chance... #s close to where Nash was at same point in their careers. But NASH is one of a kind, right?

As for this draft... MAN, if we could get Kyrie Irving (he is Rod Strickland all over again). Wont happen though. I will live with Walker QUICK) or Federette (SHOOTER) though.

One of those and DeAndre Jordan or Marc Gasol?

So, that's what we have... Let Billups walk and get a BIG or keep Billups and hope Jerome Jordan worked hard this winter.

Was that the draft that Minny selected 3 PG in the first round?

 

[WrongIslander]

I've never felt as bad as I did on draft night when GSW selected Curry (he made it so close) and then we draft Hill! Talk about a disastrous turn of events.

I thought Felton had a chance... #s close to where Nash was at same point in their careers. But NASH is one of a kind, right?

As for this draft... MAN, if we could get Kyrie Irving (he is Rod Strickland all over again). Wont happen though. I will live with Walker QUICK) or Federette (SHOOTER) though.

One of those and DeAndre Jordan or Marc Gasol?

So, that's what we have... Let Billups walk and get a BIG or keep Billups and hope Jerome Jordan worked hard this winter.

Same, after watching Curry go the words "not Hill" reverberated in my brain with such resonance that I knew the outcome before it happened. NY up to that point very rarely let you down when it came to making the wrong decision.

I'm happy if we get the Jimmer, for pure intangibles he's the best in the draft I reckon so he's worth the risk but as I say Kendall seems to me to be a floor general in the making so he's "my boy" for the underrated draft prospects.

I don't see Gasol happening and maybe Jordan is more realistic but I'm not getting my hopes up for either. Jerome Jordan is hardly getting rave reviews and seems to be still very much a raw talent so he will indeed have to continue working!

 

[iSaYughh]

Was that the draft that Minny selected 3 PG in the first round?

Rubio and Flynn I remember. Then one after the lottery?

Morons.

The Wiz had the #5 pick I believe.

Thing is, as poorly as MIN played it...we allowed their incompetence to define our incompetence that draft, instead of taking matters into our own hands.

 

[mafra]

Same, after watching Curry go the words "not Hill" reverberated in my brain with such resonance that I knew the outcome before it happened. NY up to that point very rarely let you down when it came to making the wrong decision.

I'm happy if we get the Jimmer, for pure intangibles he's the best in the draft I reckon so he's worth the risk but as I say Kendall seems to me to be a floor general in the making so he's "my boy" for the underrated draft prospects.

I don't see Gasol happening and maybe Jordan is more realistic but I'm not getting my hopes up for either. Jerome Jordan is hardly getting rave reviews and seems to be still very much a raw talent so he will indeed have to continue working!

I was the same way... For the entire time we were on the clock I was uttering "ANYONE BUT HILL. ANYONE BUT HILL."

 

[WrongIslander]

MD should have chosen CHI. Man, Rose is perfect for his style.

Would Johnson have ended up there as well I wonder ....

 

[Crazy⑧s]

Missed the game.

Sounds pathetic.

Garden boos?

 

[petescud]

worst showing since the loss to the cavs

Missed the game.

Sounds pathetic.

Garden boos?

 

[StEpHoN_mArBuRy]

Missed the game.

Sounds pathetic.

Garden boos?

Crowd was pretty much stunned and silent for most of the game til the very end. That's when you could hear boo's pickup. Should've started much earlier tho.. And maybe a fire D'antoni chant for good measure.

 

[STAT1]

Exactly. We need to powermove this draft for a PG (can we do that one goddamn time?), and get at least one righteous big.

We must do this, even if it means letting Billups go, depending on how we look rest of season/playoffs. It'll be a judgment call on whether we can have a true shot at contending next yr by essentially standing PAT.

We have the least productive 5 in the entire NBA. On a team where our greatest weakness is most effected by that very position.

Irivng is indeed sick, but right now I'd salivate if we could secure Kemba (or Jimmers). The way Douglas is progressing, a Douglas+Jimmers tagteam can be good enough on this team, even in year 1.

Jordan is Jeffries...plus an extra 10points, a block and a half, 5+ boards, the ability to dominate, and altogether superior defense and enforcing abilities,

Imagine how wed look if that man and his production would be replacing Jeffries each and every game....

About Deandre Jordan, I hope no one thinks he's gonna come in & dominate right off the bat, the kid is still very much a work in progress & he also has many games where his effort level comes into question. I've watched him extensively while I lived out in LA & let me tell you he's also very suspect on his defensive rotations at times and his lack of focus has been a source of frustration for the Clippers fans ever since he was drafted. Also his lack of offensive polish & a developed midrange J are things he clearly needs working on. The Clippers know he's got a ton of upside so they are still high on him but just signing him isn't necessarily going to vault the Knicks to instant championship contention next year. I would still be willing to take a chance on signing him because I think players w/his athletic ability at that position are very hard to come by, he can be a double double guy with 2.5 blocks per game with the right development, but he's not quite there yet. He needs work on his footwork in the post, his defensive recognition & his focus in particular. The good news is he's already a good rebounder & shotblocker for his age, which are really the 2 biggest things we need right now out of the C position. I doubt we'll have the cap space to sign him though unless we buy out Chauncey's contract, in which case we'll be left with no real answer at the PG position, pretty much cutting off your nose to spite your face type of scenario there. Toney Douglas is not a PG I don't care what he showed in his recent run while Billups was out with injury. When games go down to the wire he still inspires zero confidence & is apt to play out of control way too often to be a viable replacement for Billups just yet.

 

[MusketeerX]

About Deandre Jordan, I hope no one thinks he's gonna come in & dominate right off the bat, the kid is still very much a work in progress & he also has many games where his effort level comes into question. I've watched him extensively while I lived out in LA & let me tell you he's also very suspect on his defensive rotations at times and his lack of focus has been a source of frustration for the Clippers fans ever since he was drafted. Also his lack of offensive polish & a developed midrange J are things he clearly needs working on. The Clippers know he's got a ton of upside so they are still high on him but just signing him isn't necessarily going to vault the Knicks to instant championship contention next year. I would still be willing to take a chance on signing him because I think players w/his athletic ability at that position are very hard to come by, he can be a double double guy with 2.5 blocks per game with the right development, but he's not quite there yet. He needs work on his footwork in the post, his defensive recognition & his focus in particular. The good news is he's already a good rebounder & shotblocker for his age, which are really the 2 biggest things we need right now out of the C position. I doubt we'll have the cap space to sign him though unless we buy out Chauncey's contract, in which case we'll be left with no real answer at the PG position, pretty much cutting off your nose to spite your face type of scenario there. Toney Douglas is not a PG I don't care what he showed in his recent run while Billups was out with injury. When games go down to the wire he still inspires zero confidence & is apt to play out of control way too often to be a viable replacement for Billups just yet.

Good point on Deandre. It's not like his presence has mad them a great defensive team. 18 out of 30.

 

[KnicksFanFromQueens1985]

Marc Gasol, DeAndre Jordan, Nene, Dalembert.

Gasol's a RFA so it'll be tough; but NY needs to land one of those 4 C's in the worst way.

Followed by the drafting of the BPA (C/PF) during the 1st.

I hate to say it, but even if it means we're forced to move Billups inorder to land our C'; then that's what must happen. Next year is the last year of Billups contract to begin with.

TD may not be our future starter @ PG, but at least he's a promising young backup. It's better than going into 2011-2012 with this starting 5.

Way before MDA arrived in NY; We've been without a true C' since the days of #33.

Remember Ewing, Oakley, Mason & Charles Smith?

Amare, JJ, Turiaf & Shelden will never get it done.

Jordan, Amare, Camby, & JJ would be SOLID.

I only used Camby as an example but if Turiaf picks up his player-option we must move his 4Mill elsewhere.

This team needs a true C' who can rebound, contest drives, block shots, fill lanes, fight through & defend against the P&R & bring respect back to the paint.

 

[TakMan]

Every loss ultimately transforms the game thread from..well... a game thread, to a D'Antoni thread. I really think that we should replace the word 'Knicks' with the word 'D'Antoni' on the title of game threads so that the discussion to follow is placed in context. The truth is that the players were abysmal last night and that is the primary reason for the loss. When did Billups and Douglas last shoot a collective 1 from 15 from beyond the arc? The movement was non-existent and at no point did it look like the team was going to recover. Having said that, one should question the coach's ability to adapt to gameplans gone wrong. Why maintain the same team on the court when it is evident many are having an off day or are just not good enough to play. Has Shwane really demonstrated better abilities at C than his brother from another mother? The little I remember from Shelden's appearances, he pleasantly surprised. It wouldn't hurt to play him with Turiaf for a while to defend Indiana's non-existent (up until last night) Centers. To not even mention defence in the post game interview is just a piss take. He does seem (willingly?) oblivious to some major and evident problems. Not signing a Center during along with releasing Brewer were -for me- the hardest decisions to grasp.

Wrong Islander; earlier in the thread you accused another member of being a Xenophobe. Let's not toss the word around needlessly. I don't think any of us had a problem with players like Galinari being part of the Knicks roster. The general European style of play however is not suited to the NBA. I'm from Greece and regularly stay up until 5:00a.m local time to watch the NBA. I intensely dislike European Basketball as I feel it is 100% tactical and 0% creative. D'Antoni appears to have adopted the European approach to offense but if he insists on this bland and predictable style of play can he at least adopt the same approach for defence? If there's something European teams are good at it's organised defence. The Knicks on the other hand look like headless chickens when they're attempting to defend opponents. I do not in any way favour a coach bashing approach, particularly in games such as last night where the players appeared provocatively indifferent; This however does not mean that I will grant the coach immunity from criticism, particularly when there are major problems that he refuses to address, which could be the difference between the Knicks becoming contenders, or remaining a first round playoff team.

 

[Sprewell-Houston]

Oh boy oh boy oh boy...what was that??

Another 48 minutes of shit basketball.

Makes it 96 straight minutes of shit ball by the Knicks.

I don't understand why we can't go on a long winning streak...we have 3 superstars now and still.

Chicago have only 1 superstar and they might win the conference.

Sooooo frustrating.

 

[Weissenberg]

I am not going to blame MDA for that game, the only thing he could do at that moment was to give the bench some more minutes (especially Walker), but it's still not certain that would win the game for us. This time it's much more the players, Toney 1/12, Chauncey 4/14... If the PG who is supposed to be a playmaker doesn't move the ball enough and doesn't hit the shots there is no way to win, even against the teams like Indiana... Especially if your offensive superstarts got into foul trouble and were not able to make enough minutes on the court. Another problem is there is still no chemistry between Billups and Amare, when Douglas was our starting PG due to Billups' injury there has been much more traffic between him and our #1, we have to give Chauncey and Stat a bit more time to gel, that's all.

 

[platnumn]

Crowd was pretty much stunned and silent for most of the game til the very end. That's when you could hear boo's pickup. Should've started much earlier tho.. And maybe a fire D'antoni chant for good measure.

Haha you didn't hear me? I was 2nd row off the floor, across from Knicks bench.

Pacers go to take last free throws of game pretty much, and I stood up and shouted, "MIIIIIIIKEEE!!!!! THIS ONE'S ON YOU, MIKE!!!!!!".

I was eye level with everyone on the court, and Chauncy stared right at me like "dude are you serious". I checked my tivo when I got home, and you can clearly hear me say it and you can see Chauncey staring right at me.

I really didn't blame MIke, but it seemed right to at the time. I mean how do you just stand by game after game with this pathetic effort with a smug look on your face. I had to yell at Mike twice also to put Melo in, both times which he obliged (not bc of me yelling, just coincidence obviously).

I loved the game as I had never sat a row from the floor, but what a poor effort, I mean come on!

 

[StEpHoN_mArBuRy]

^That's my main gripe with him to. He always has that dumbfounded look on his face while were getting our ass beat and while you see most coaches call timeout to make adjustments and stop the momentum he sits there and continues to watch on like a spectator.

 

[Crazy⑧s]

GREENBURGH, N.Y. ? Mike D?Antoni called it ?a horror film,? but he could have just as easily classified the latest Knicks defeat as a horrendous sequel, filled with predictable premises and tired clich?s.

In losing to the Indiana Pacers on Sunday night, the Knicks displayed all of their worst habits and gave substance to every quiet fear about the Carmelo Anthony-Amar?e Stoudemire offensive pairing.

They were bull-headed and reckless, forcing bad shots instead of passing, barging into clogged lanes and generally turning D?Antoni?s fluid offense into a stagnant mess of one-on-one plays.

Anthony came to New York with a reputation for dominating the ball. Stoudemire has been tagged with the same criticism during his career. Both have shown an ability to adapt, but they were at their self-indulgent worst Sunday.

Stoudemire, frustrated by the aggressive inside play of Tyler Hansbrough and Roy Hibbert, tried to return fire but picked up two offensive fouls by charging headfirst into the traffic. Anthony, flustered by the physical defense of Dahntay Jones, also had two offensive fouls, along with a flurry of errant shots (9 for 22 from the field).

The Knicks registered a season-low 11 assists and shot 36.6 percent ? glaring warning signs for a team still adapting to its new superstar pairing.

?We revert back to ?Just give me the ball, let me put my head down and go,? ? D?Antoni said Monday, adding: ?That?s what we have to guard against. Those are tendencies that we?ve shown that we?ve had. And hopefully we can get that out of their games completely. I think we will. I don?t see it as a problem.?

As the Knicks prepared for a Tuesday night rematch with the Pacers in Indiana, the focus was on well-worn principles of ball and player movement. The lack of each was evident as they reviewed tape of Sunday?s game ? the one D?Antoni referred to as ?a horror film.?

?We can?t win that way,? Stoudemire agreed. ?We didn?t move the ball.?

The Knicks are just 6-5 since Anthony arrived. Every encouraging victory against a quality team (Miami, Atlanta and Memphis) has been offset by a stunning loss to a poor team (Indiana, Cleveland twice).

Anthony has been productive, averaging 25.5 points, and predictably erratic. He has converted 50 percent of his shots in just three games. He is shooting 47.2 percent in the Knicks? victories and 41.4 percent in the losses. Also noteworthy is the difference in Anthony?s assist rate: 4.2 per game in wins and 2.4 per game in losses. On Sunday, he had zero assists.

If Anthony had any thoughts on the matter, he chose not to share them Monday. He left the practice court without speaking to reporters.

Stoudemire and Anthony have blended their talents perfectly at times ? notably in a rout of the Utah Jazz ? but sometimes still look like two individuals, making individual plays. On Sunday, Anthony, Stoudemire and Chauncey Billups combined for 51 of the Knicks? 82 shots, and 12 of their 15 turnovers.

?It?s a worst-case scenario,? D?Antoni said. ?You have to guard against that. Obviously, we?ve shown that we don?t have to be that way. So all of our focus in practice and talking is going to be on how do we be the other guys.?

These are not new concerns. In Denver, Coach George Karl spent seven-plus seasons trying to coax more team-oriented play and better defense out of Anthony. The Nuggets are 8-2 since trading Anthony, and soaking in schadenfreude.

Raymond Felton, one of four players traded to Denver in the Anthony deal, boasted to HoopsHype.com, ?We?re a better team, I feel like.?

Another former Knick, Al Harrington, who signed with the Nuggets last summer, echoed the sentiment, saying, ?If we had to play them in one game, I think we would win.?

The Nuggets were seventh in the Western Conference at the All-Star break but have moved up to fifth since making the trade that sent Felton, Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari and Timofey Mozgov to Denver. Felton and Chandler are key members of the rotation, as was Gallinari before he fractured a toe.

?Everybody is playing together,? the Nuggets? J. R. Smith said in the same HoopsHype article. Smith pointed out that eight players scored in double figures in a recent victory. ?I think we can count on one hand how many times that happened before the trade.?

While the Nuggets crow about their post-Anthony success, the Knicks are working frantically to integrate Anthony and Billups, with just 17 games left to make it all work before the playoffs begin.

The Knicks? most glaring weaknesses ? size, depth and defense ? are not likely to be fixed in the next four weeks. They have to be brilliant on offense to make their mark.

The schedule is in their favor, with just six winning teams among the 17 opponents. Of course, it is the sub-.500 teams who seem to be causing the Knicks the most trouble ? along with a more familiar foe.

?Right now, we?re playing against the Knicks,? D?Antoni said. ?It?s us.?

 

[Weissenberg]

Raymond is right, the Nuggets are 7-2 since the trade, we're 7-6, another stats also confirm his words as well, let's take a look at Wilson/Raymond and Carmelo/Chauncey in their last game. W/R have been 56% combined with 43 points, 10 rebounds, 14 assists, 3 blocks and just 4 personal fouls and 3 turnovers and they played against the 6th team in the West...
C/C have been 35% combined with 34 points, 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 block and 7 personal fouls and 9 turnovers and we played against 8th in the East.

 

[Toons]

GREENBURGH, N.Y. ? Mike D?Antoni called it ?a horror film,? but he could have just as easily classified the latest Knicks defeat as a horrendous sequel, filled with predictable premises and tired clich?s.

In losing to the Indiana Pacers on Sunday night, the Knicks displayed all of their worst habits and gave substance to every quiet fear about the Carmelo Anthony-Amar?e Stoudemire offensive pairing.

They were bull-headed and reckless, forcing bad shots instead of passing, barging into clogged lanes and generally turning D?Antoni?s fluid offense into a stagnant mess of one-on-one plays.

Anthony came to New York with a reputation for dominating the ball. Stoudemire has been tagged with the same criticism during his career. Both have shown an ability to adapt, but they were at their self-indulgent worst Sunday.

Stoudemire, frustrated by the aggressive inside play of Tyler Hansbrough and Roy Hibbert, tried to return fire but picked up two offensive fouls by charging headfirst into the traffic. Anthony, flustered by the physical defense of Dahntay Jones, also had two offensive fouls, along with a flurry of errant shots (9 for 22 from the field).

The Knicks registered a season-low 11 assists and shot 36.6 percent ? glaring warning signs for a team still adapting to its new superstar pairing.

?We revert back to ?Just give me the ball, let me put my head down and go,? ? D?Antoni said Monday, adding: ?That?s what we have to guard against. Those are tendencies that we?ve shown that we?ve had. And hopefully we can get that out of their games completely. I think we will. I don?t see it as a problem.?

As the Knicks prepared for a Tuesday night rematch with the Pacers in Indiana, the focus was on well-worn principles of ball and player movement. The lack of each was evident as they reviewed tape of Sunday?s game ? the one D?Antoni referred to as ?a horror film.?

?We can?t win that way,? Stoudemire agreed. ?We didn?t move the ball.?

The Knicks are just 6-5 since Anthony arrived. Every encouraging victory against a quality team (Miami, Atlanta and Memphis) has been offset by a stunning loss to a poor team (Indiana, Cleveland twice).

Anthony has been productive, averaging 25.5 points, and predictably erratic. He has converted 50 percent of his shots in just three games. He is shooting 47.2 percent in the Knicks? victories and 41.4 percent in the losses. Also noteworthy is the difference in Anthony?s assist rate: 4.2 per game in wins and 2.4 per game in losses. On Sunday, he had zero assists.

If Anthony had any thoughts on the matter, he chose not to share them Monday. He left the practice court without speaking to reporters.

Stoudemire and Anthony have blended their talents perfectly at times ? notably in a rout of the Utah Jazz ? but sometimes still look like two individuals, making individual plays. On Sunday, Anthony, Stoudemire and Chauncey Billups combined for 51 of the Knicks? 82 shots, and 12 of their 15 turnovers.

?It?s a worst-case scenario,? D?Antoni said. ?You have to guard against that. Obviously, we?ve shown that we don?t have to be that way. So all of our focus in practice and talking is going to be on how do we be the other guys.?

These are not new concerns. In Denver, Coach George Karl spent seven-plus seasons trying to coax more team-oriented play and better defense out of Anthony. The Nuggets are 8-2 since trading Anthony, and soaking in schadenfreude.

Raymond Felton, one of four players traded to Denver in the Anthony deal, boasted to HoopsHype.com, ?We?re a better team, I feel like.?

Another former Knick, Al Harrington, who signed with the Nuggets last summer, echoed the sentiment, saying, ?If we had to play them in one game, I think we would win.?

The Nuggets were seventh in the Western Conference at the All-Star break but have moved up to fifth since making the trade that sent Felton, Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari and Timofey Mozgov to Denver. Felton and Chandler are key members of the rotation, as was Gallinari before he fractured a toe.

?Everybody is playing together,? the Nuggets? J. R. Smith said in the same HoopsHype article. Smith pointed out that eight players scored in double figures in a recent victory. ?I think we can count on one hand how many times that happened before the trade.?

While the Nuggets crow about their post-Anthony success, the Knicks are working frantically to integrate Anthony and Billups, with just 17 games left to make it all work before the playoffs begin.

The Knicks? most glaring weaknesses ? size, depth and defense ? are not likely to be fixed in the next four weeks. They have to be brilliant on offense to make their mark.

The schedule is in their favor, with just six winning teams among the 17 opponents. Of course, it is the sub-.500 teams who seem to be causing the Knicks the most trouble ? along with a more familiar foe.

?Right now, we?re playing against the Knicks,? D?Antoni said. ?It?s us.?

11 assists.....yeah....its the coach

lol