Tim Hardaway Jr.

METRO... you can post all the stats you want... It doesn't dispel the reality that Hardaway was in the realm of viable options the Knicks had to chose from at 24. They considered Bullock, Franklin, Crabbe, Rice, Canaan. They decided Hardaway was the best player of the bunch. You declaring that Ledo was the better option just shows you why fans are fans and GMs are paid executives charged with making tough decisions. Ledo was in High School 2 years ago, didn't play last season, but you will take him based on what? If he was so worthy of the 24th pick, then why was he passed over for another 20 selections? He may turn out to be the better player, but if your job was on the line... are you seriously banking on Ledo to help us beat MIA next year? We are built to win now... we probably won't, but you have to get players to help Carmelo and see what happens. You're also comparing players who played for TEMPLE to Hardaway? COme on... I poured 55 last weekend against a few of my son's friends... should NYK draft me b/c I proved to be more efficient the last year's worth of games played? Hardaway played in the elite conference, and unlike Franklin... he was asked to defer to Burke and play within the MICHIGAN system. Again, of all the players in the pool of possibilities... I believe he was the most logical, with all things considered. His game will translate... he will handle the pressure... I cannot say that about Ledo or Crabbe...
 
You're letting people think for you and you're not forming your own opinion.

1. Drafting a player, doesn't make him the best player in the "bunch". We'll have to wait 3-4 years to decide on that. Right now the evidence shows Hardaway Jr isn't the best SG amongst his class, barely top 5 even.

2. Tough decisions? Paid executives get fired and only hold their jobs for 2-4 years. NBA execs get fired often because not everyone can win and not everyone can make the right decision. This is a sports business and if the team isn't succeeding execs have to go. Just because they get salary doesn't mean the decision they make are right. That has yet remain to be seen. You claiming it's the right decision is foolish and very clown-like.

3. Based on everything you don't know about Ledo I can say with confidence he has a better skill set than Hardaway Jr.

ricky-ledo-o.gif


Ledo has the ability to shake his defender and separate from mid-range. This could end up being his bread and butter in the NBA if he can prove that he's reliable as an isolation scorer.

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Ledo also has gone head to head against John Wall and held his own. The talent is there, what he can do in the NBA we don't know, we'll find out in 3-4 years.

4. We are not built to win now. We're built to make the playoffs. Knicks are barely a top 5 team in the East right now. They need to make moves to improve. Adding youth isn't a bad thing, a lot of young players make contributions in the playoffs.

5. You won't get drafted by the Knicks because your lack of speed, strength and weak body composition.

6. Playing in an elite conference doesn't hold you away from being a bust. Kawhi Leonard played for San Diego St and Damian Lilliard played for Weber State University. Stephen Curry played for Davison. My man Jose Juan Barea played for Northeastern.

The school doesn't make you, because theres a lot of bust and hit and miss players from Michigan and the Big Ten. I know JimCheif is going to get on me for saying that, but it's true. The bigger the school, the most expectations. Expectations are made to be broken.


His game will translate and he'll handle NBA pressure when he struggled in the NCAA? Hasn't been proven. You don't know that. You believe it with no evidence. Santa Claus still exist to you. It's total bias and an opinion with no research or critical thinking. I bet you still believe in the voting system.
 
METRO... say whatever you like... I saw enough of both Hardaway and Bullock in college. I watch a ton of college hoops. But what's the point of arguing with you? This is all a matter of opinion. Let's look at this nugget from you back in June 2011: "I wish we kept Anthony Randolph. I really did. ****. Could of been our Marcus Camby and is the perfect player next to Amare." So, when you type stuff about Ledo... I'll just remember you loved Randolph. Regardless of whether or not we can escape the 1st round... When we dealt for 'Melo and then signed TC... we pretty much went all-in to win it now We probably would have been better served to suck and get Wiggins next year... but be that as it may... We were not going to draft a player b/c he had a higher ceiling. Grunwald said he wanted a player to help win now. Go rattle off all the All-Star caliber players picked after the 23rd selection. You have like a 5% chance of hitting... so why would we bank on Ledo? Is he the next Lance Stephenson? Maybe. All teams make mistakes. You think Indy would prefer K-Leonard to George Hill? Yeah, they made that trade. ALso, you say I believe what I read/hear? PLz... I am talking about what I have seen myself, my eye test. I imagine you have never watched a full game Franklin played, but mention him only b/c you heard he was compared to Leonard. Let's go on record right now: you would have taken Bullock or Ledo. Fine. I say Hardaway. This is like the Kenneth Faired - I. Shumpert debate. I get that. But it's not like we passed on Ben Maclemore or something. And, pray tell... how many games did you personally watch Ledo play in? Exactly!
 
I still cannot fathom that you posted a high school highlight of Ledo, and that is supposed to make me forget the battles I saw Hardaway play against Indiana, Duke, Ohio St. LOL! Wow, he played well in a Summer game against wall? I dominated Danya Abrams in Summer league too... won the title... but Boston College didn't recruit me. Ledo reminds me of another God Shammgod... where is he right now?
 
Not sure if you watched enough of Bullock and Hardaway Jr. You were basically 70% of with describing how the yplay.

Anthony Randolph is a pretty productive player per 36 minute, my infatuation with Randolph is very justifiable.

per 36
Randolph averages
17 ppg
10.4 rpg
2.2 bpg
1.3 spg

He's a 6"11 SF/C and he's only 23. By now, I thought he would lower the fouling and turnovers but that hasn't been the case yet. Despite the fact, Randolph is only 2-3 years older than Tim but has 4-5 more years of NBA experience. Randolph has been a pro since he was 19. Hold that. I'm still pretty sure Randolph will find a role on a team that can use a shot blocker, rebounder and dynamic scorer. His talent and skill is unquestionable, it's just his brain. I'm still a fan of Randolph and I will always considering him one of the most interesting players in the NBA because he's a rare type of player. I still feel like the Knicks didn't spend enough time helping him mature his game.

Signing TC and Amare were has us in a lock down...and I agree about us tanking into the 2014 because theres a lot of guys like Wiggins and Randle that can change a franchise and would look great playing next to Melo in 2-3 years.

I've never seen Ledo participate in a high level competition game so my answer would be zero. He's a huge mystery.

I've watched Jamaal Franklin's scouting videos, strength and weaknesses. They were pretty in-depth and more clearly than watching a game. Check it out and let me know how you feel about Franklin's game.




difference between Franklin and Hardaway Jr is that Franklin attacks the rim, Timmy doesn;t.

Jamaal has over 8 FTA per game. Tim barely has 1/3 of that with 3 FTA per game.

Main problem with Franklin is his jump shot. It's really funky. But they said the same thing about Leonard who's a 3pt specialist for San Antonio now.

mafra said:
METRO... say whatever you like... I saw enough of both Hardaway and Bullock in college. I watch a ton of college hoops. But what's the point of arguing with you? This is all a matter of opinion. Let's look at this nugget from you back in June 2011: "I wish we kept Anthony Randolph. I really did. ****. Could of been our Marcus Camby and is the perfect player next to Amare." So, when you type stuff about Ledo... I'll just remember you loved Randolph. Regardless of whether or not we can escape the 1st round... When we dealt for 'Melo and then signed TC... we pretty much went all-in to win it now We probably would have been better served to suck and get Wiggins next year... but be that as it may... We were not going to draft a player b/c he had a higher ceiling. Grunwald said he wanted a player to help win now. Go rattle off all the All-Star caliber players picked after the 23rd selection. You have like a 5% chance of hitting... so why would we bank on Ledo? Is he the next Lance Stephenson? Maybe. All teams make mistakes. You think Indy would prefer K-Leonard to George Hill? Yeah, they made that trade. ALso, you say I believe what I read/hear? PLz... I am talking about what I have seen myself, my eye test. I imagine you have never watched a full game Franklin played, but mention him only b/c you heard he was compared to Leonard. Let's go on record right now: you would have taken Bullock or Ledo. Fine. I say Hardaway. This is like the Kenneth Faired - I. Shumpert debate. I get that. But it's not like we passed on Ben Maclemore or something. And, pray tell... how many games did you personally watch Ledo play in? Exactly!
Click to expand...
 
I would of much rather seen us grab Jamaal Franklin or Mitchell.
These players effects winning in so many other ways than Tim.
 
So, aside from the shooting... Franklin is good? Lol. Again, you cannot compare the level of competition and the fact that Franklin didn't play with Burke. When he was a freshman... playing on that great team... he barely played! Meanwhile, Hardawy started every game all three seasons at MICHIGAN. You may be right that Franklin is the better player, but based on their resume in college... Tim was the better player... and I bet had the better workout with us... and KNICKS WANTED SOMEBODY WHO WILL SHOOT, HIT BIG SHOTS, and this is something Franklin struggles with. Personally, I would have been fine with Franklin or BUllock... But Hardaway fits better with our roster. We need a perimeter threat. Franklin isn't that guy.
 
metrocard said:
Sadly, I don't see much ball movement at all with a Shumpert/Hardaway/Melo/Stat/TC lineup.

nyk_nyk , you act like NBA staff's are always successful. Fans have the right to voice their opinions against their moves...we don't have to be sheeps and back up everything they do because they're professionals. Even professionals make me mistakes, and you can't be so foolish to think Knicks don't make mistakes.

This was a pointless draft pick. Knicks have glaring holes at PG the front court position. Shumpert is our guy at SG, Hardaway won't play no more than 18 minutes at best. Knicks weakness is interior defense...we didn't address that.

Instead we got a SG who's on the same level as Alex Abrines, Allen Crabbe, Glen Rice JR., Jamaal Franklin, Ricardo Ledo and Reggie Bullock.

Now Knicks have to be desperate in this off season because they have a lot of hard contracts to move with Amare and Chandler, known as injury prone guys about to end their prime.

as a fan, you should be concerned if you have a pulse and you're not stressing yourself out over protecting the Knicks staff and their decisions.

Best Case Scenario: CJ Miles
Worst Case Scenario: DeQuan Cook

nyk, you provided no evidence that shows Hardaway Jr. is NBA ready. We won't know that until January. Stop making things up.

mafra , good info.
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How was this a pointless draft pick?? #1 if JR leaves then we'll need a SG. #2 He was one of the best players available at that draft position. You say the knicks have a glaring hole at PG, but how when there's a chance Prigs will return? The knicks have always planned to address the PF/C positions through FA. We still have Camby and Martin may be resigned for the vet min. Also, they signed some 6-9 dude from NC State. Knicks will do the same thing they did last season but this time the players signed will be younger.

Look, they only had 1 pick and couldn't have addressed the PF/PG depth with someone who could contribute right away. The SG position was the most viable and they went with who impressed them in workouts. YOU felt they should have picked Bullock but they didnt. Why does that mean they made a mistake?? You haven't seen every Mich game nor were you in attendance at the draft workouts. Sorry but you're liable to make a mistake before NBA scouts with large resources will.

Who knew Jimmy Butler (30) would have more of an impact than Marshon Brooks (25)???
 
That's it NYK. Bullock, Ledo, or Franklin, or some other player may prove to be better down the road. Most likely, that will be the case... And what NYK fan in their right mind has any faith in what decision Dolan's front office ever make in the draft. I get that... And I'm not a Hardaway supporter, in the sense I am 100% in love with the selection. But after Plumlee was taken I really didn't believe there was 1 clear path to take at 24. And given the school, the 3-yr starter, the father, the pressure he's thrived under and the ability to take and hit big shots... I understand the logic to take Tim over the other options, with all things equal. Plunk Ledo or Franklin in this situation, we cannot say for sure what happens. You cant sit here and tell me that Franklin can learn to shoot b/c Leonard did. What kind of logic is that?
 
If JR leaves, there are guys like Delfino, Garcia and Tony Allen to replace JR who would of been better fits than JR and especially a weak talent like Timmy.

You say he was one of the best, but you prove no information behind it. He's a low efficiency player.

Prigioni is good money. Knicks still needed a young PG. Felton is going to be 30 and he isn't that good to be begin to have him run the show.

CJ Leslie is athletic, but raw offensively and defensively. Those kind of players never see more than 20 minutes a game in the NBA.

Mitchell was a PF prospect who Knicks shown somewhat in an interest in, he would of contributed right away with his rebounding and hustle. Adjusting to scoring in the NBA isn't an automatic thing. Kevin Durant's rookie season he shot 40% and below 30% from 3pt land. It takes time. Do we have enough time to wait for a guy who was low efficiency scorer in college? Scoring is really the only thing Hardaway does and he doesn't do it well. Average at best.

Jimmy Butler was a defensive player who develop his jump shot and handle, just like Leonard did. Brooks was a nut scorer, who's offensive game is pretty good. They're both good players, Butler is overrated by Bull fans but Butler impacts the game not by scoring but his with all around activity. Hardaway has never been that kind of player, thus making it pointless in bringing it up.

nyk_nyk said:
How was this a pointless draft pick?? #1 if JR leaves then we'll need a SG. #2 He was one of the best players available at that draft position. You say the knicks have a glaring hole at PG, but how when there's a chance Prigs will return? The knicks have always planned to address the PF/C positions through FA. We still have Camby and Martin may be resigned for the vet min. Also, they signed some 6-9 dude from NC State. Knicks will do the same thing they did last season but this time the players signed will be younger.

Look, they only had 1 pick and couldn't have addressed the PF/PG depth with someone who could contribute right away. The SG position was the most viable and they went with who impressed them in workouts. YOU felt they should have picked Bullock but they didnt. Why does that mean they made a mistake?? You haven't seen every Mich game nor were you in attendance at the draft workouts. Sorry but you're liable to make a mistake before NBA scouts with large resources will.

Who knew Jimmy Butler (30) would have more of an impact than Marshon Brooks (25)???
Click to expand...
 
mafra said:
So, aside from the shooting... Franklin is good? Lol. Again, you cannot compare the level of competition and the fact that Franklin didn't play with Burke. When he was a freshman... playing on that great team... he barely played! Meanwhile, Hardawy started every game all three seasons at MICHIGAN. You may be right that Franklin is the better player, but based on their resume in college... Tim was the better player... and I bet had the better workout with us... and KNICKS WANTED SOMEBODY WHO WILL SHOOT, HIT BIG SHOTS, and this is something Franklin struggles with. Personally, I would have been fine with Franklin or BUllock... But Hardaway fits better with our roster. We need a perimeter threat. Franklin isn't that guy.
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Neither is Hardaway. His shooting is streaky and he's a crappy FT shooter for a SG.

Garcia and Delfino would be superior perimeter shooting options and they actually play defense.

Stop bringing up the big conference thing, it's pointless. Curry is from a small college ... so is two time MVP Steve Nash.

Manny Harris is from Michigan and now he's playing ball in Eastern Europe.

Manny Harris had better numbers in Michigan than Tim Hardaway Jr....but still went to the NBA to struggle to make a weak Cleveland Cavs roster.

Get real.
 
metrocard said:
His scoring won't translate to the NBA. Easy to defend.
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Glad you're so confident. You're setting yourself up for failure if he pans out.

Bottom line is the Hardaway has tangibles that will translate well in the league. He's a knockdown shooter, who's also athletic and can put the ball on the floor. He's played in big games under pressure and is well coached and coachable.

He's a player to place bets on.
 
Here is food for thought, just watched that Grunny vid...

Hardaway was up on their list probably Top 15/Top 20...

He made it clear that Tim Jr. wasn't projected as their #24 selection...

How high did they have him, and why did he drop so far...

Maybe other teams decided on cap relief moves by selecting international players that might not be willing to leave and come play right away... A move to grab someone, so they can financially keep their roster, improve it through free agency or be able to trade without going over the luxury tax...

So it comes down too:

Can he start right away, my opinion is no -- but that is why they have the summer league and training camp with preseason to possibly transform this kid into a viable piece of the rotation... I would be shocked if he started, but he does have an high IQ, he has loads of athleticism that could be utilized by the right coaches... Do we have the right coaching regime to bring out the best in him??? or Will it take time for him to grow into a viable NBA player???
 
ronoranina said:
Glad you're so confident. You're setting yourself up for failure if he pans out.

Bottom line is the Hardaway has tangibles that will translate well in the league. He's a knockdown shooter, who's also athletic and can put the ball on the floor. He's played in big games under pressure and is well coached and coachable.

He's a player to place bets on.
Click to expand...

Yes he has tangibles but he isn't a knockdown shooter, he needs to work on his consistency... Yes he is athletic and can put the ball on the floor... Here is the main thing, they believe he is hard worker and a student of the game...

Hopefully they will be able to teach and elevate his game by season's start...
 
No Hardaway def won't start right away. He has the physical tools and skillset to do so eventually though.

IMO he is a guy that can stretch the defense with his shooting. He shot high 30's throughout his college career. Teams will have to respect him and I think he will get even better. Prob better to call him a gd volume 3 pt shooter. We will see.
 
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