What is the problem?

Well, I took this from the game thread to discuss it here.......
1- are we really tanking, is that the plan? will the fans tolerate it?
2- are we going to have a solid rotation soon even if this is not the best rotation? I feel this will be a key for us to get wins...
 
The Dragon said:
Well, I took this from the game thread to discuss it here.......
1- are we really tanking, is that the plan? will the fans tolerate it?
2- are we going to have a solid rotation soon even if this is not the best rotation? I feel this will be a key for us to get wins...
Click to expand...

when u get the answer to the 1st part, the 2nd will follow...
 
paris401 said:
Me-Lo was hellbent that the last shot was his... remember a few games ago... few seconds left, ball inbounded to jr... Me-Lo calling for ball, but jr takes the last shot n hits nuthin.. Me-Lo was not letting that happen again...
Click to expand...

Lol at JR hits nothin.. Does Melo hit somethin.. when it counts the most?
 
The Dragon said:
Well, I took this from the game thread to discuss it here.......
1- are we really tanking, is that the plan? will the fans tolerate it?
2- are we going to have a solid rotation soon even if this is not the best rotation? I feel this will be a key for us to get wins...
Click to expand...


I think the knicks are tanking. They can't come out and say it. Philly did, and knowing how the draft "works" I would not be surprised if they don't get the #1 pick again due to it.

Phil Jackson said to the media yesterday he doesn't care about wins from this team he cares about effort. and a Cheap Big man rookie would work great for the knicks because the triangle usually needs 2 of them and the knicks only have cap room for one max Big player.
 
Wargames said:
the knicks only have cap room for one max Big player.
Click to expand...

they have room for one max ..period... next year 42m on the books, one max +20m= 62m... just about the salary cap, and only 7 players signed... so if cap is 70, u have 8m to spend on 8players...

and a mill doesn't buy what it used to...
 
paris401 said:
they have room for one max ..period... next year 42m on the books, one max +20m= 62m... just about the salary cap, and only 7 players signed... so if cap is 70, u have 8m to spend on 8players...

and a mill doesn't buy what it used to...
Click to expand...

we have 42M next year? who is eating up all the money beside melo? does anyone has the details of our players contracts?
 
sorry next year is 40.5m -breakdown

Me-Lo 22,8m
jose 7.4
jr 6.4
Pablo 1.7
thj 1.3
early 845k

shump if they pick up his qualifying offer , its 3.9, acy n wear each have a team option at 1m plus..

if they pick up all the options, then its 46+.... ouch... don't leave much room for a max...
 
They should get Lou Williams and Kyle Lowry according to their history + what they did yesterday. for instance, it is not the first time Williams does bring passion and creativity to the field... he has done that before vs. the Knicks... being "constantly" a sub, he would not be that much expensive... and you need great subs that have the right mentality to move forward...a strong starting team does not always provide room for championships, especially due to ego clashing... Jose Calderon should be offloaded...why is he even in this team? it is odd...and I am not a certified guy to talk about basketball, but of sports athletes yes as that's one of my areas. he delays the team offensive approach and he is not a guy to play the triangle offense as PJ wishes to implement to the highest of success.
 
two quick questions....... are our plethora of injuries real or it is a way of keeping some players away to develop the rookies and lose games to get a higher draft pick?

the second, Is there a rule against losing on purpose to get a higher draft pick..... if anybody can prove that in the first place?
 
some of the injuries are real .. the hump def hurt his shoulder, on the other hand not sure about JR n the I'Talian... but them being out is addition by subtraction...neither one of them has a BB IQ...
 
The Dragon said:
we have 42M next year? who is eating up all the money beside melo? does anyone has the details of our players contracts?
Click to expand...

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

its more like 40 and that isn't 100 accurate either because it doesn't include cap holds. If the knicks waive and then stretch JR that is another 4 mil available. If they let Shump walk they could probably scrap together another 3 million. Also add another mil if they waive Pablo. However based on the fact the knicks will likely have a top 7 pick the rookie is going to have a 3 - 5 million dollar cap hold. meaning at most the knicks can scrap together around 25 million.

There was some indication that the league would be willing to increase the cap this year partway to the new $87 mil max to maybe 74 million. However, that news is still just a rumor.

However the knicks are in strange cap territory. The expected Salary caps is going to rise for the rest of Melo's contract and go as follows


  • 2016: $66,300,000
  • 2017: $87,196,327
  • 2018: $94,013,221
  • 2019: $99,793,454

This goes as high as 140 million in salary cap (double) by 2025. So based on that the knicks shouldn't be as desperate for salary cap. In fact I think an argument can be made that if the knicks whiff out on Marc and a lesser degree LMA then the knicks will look to get Goran Dragic at 17 mil Max or Monroe who is around 16 million (depending on who they draft).

If those two are the realistic targets. Then the knicks don't need to do anything but let the contracts on the books expire. They could likely keep JR (and let him expire to add money in 2016) keep shump for cheap, get goran or monroe and still have and addition 6 - 10 million in 2015 to add another piece in 2015. Then once JR'S contract expires in 2016 they would have around 25 mil in space again in 2016.

Or in the same scenario of the knicks not getting M.Gasol or LMA they could get rid of JR, pablo, and Shump then sign a goran or monroe and potentially have 8 - 10 million to go after another free agent. So yeah the cap situation is complicated, and a strong argument can be made that scrapping all assets to get more might be shortsighted since there is a strong possibility $20 - $22 is more than needed and jettisoning ever piece for space for $3 mil more is pointless


 
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paris401 said:
the hump is a 'team' option and is not included in the 40 and a half mill... not sure about this 'spreading out' of contracts, but josh smith who just got released , is on the pistons books for 28m for the next 2yrs... why aint they spreading it out??? never heard this before... please enlighten us...
Click to expand...
The Pistons are using that new stretch provision on JSmoove, spreading out the money owed him over 5 years.

The 2011 CBA dramatically changes this regimen. While contracts signed under the 2005 CBA remain under the original scheme, different rules apply to new contracts. When a team waives a player signed under the 2011 CBA, it can spread the remaining guaranteed salary (and its accompanying cap hit) over twice the remaining length of the contract, plus one year. According to Coon, "if a team has an underperforming player with one season remaining at $12 million, the team can waive him and stretch his salary across three seasons at $4 million per season."
 
Wargames said:
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

its more like 40 and that isn't 100 accurate either because it doesn't include cap holds. If the knicks waive and then stretch JR that is another 4 mil available. If they let Shump walk they could probably scrap together another 3 million. Also add another mil if they waive Pablo. However based on the fact the knicks will likely have a top 7 pick the rookie is going to have a 3 - 5 million dollar cap hold. meaning at most the knicks can scrap together around 25 million.

There was some indication that the league would be willing to increase the cap this year partway to the new $87 mil max to maybe 74 million. However, that news is still just a rumor.

However the knicks are in strange cap territory. The expected Salary caps is going to rise for the rest of Melo's contract and go as follows


  • 2016: $66,300,000
  • 2017: $87,196,327
  • 2018: $94,013,221
  • 2019: $99,793,454

This goes as high as 140 million in salary cap (double) by 2025. So based on that the knicks shouldn't be as desperate for salary cap. In fact I think an argument can be made that if the knicks whiff out on Marc and a lesser degree LMA then the knicks will look to get Goran Dragic at 17 mil Max or Monroe who is around 16 million (depending on who they draft).

If those two are the realistic targets. Then the knicks don't need to do anything but let the contracts on the books expire. They could likely keep JR (and let him expire to add money in 2016) keep shump for cheap, get goran or monroe and still have and addition 6 - 10 million in 2015 to add another piece in 2015. Then once JR'S contract expires in 2016 they would have around 25 mil in space again in 2016.

Or in the same scenario of the knicks not getting M.Gasol or LMA they could get rid of JR, pablo, and Shump then sign a goran or monroe and potentially have 8 - 10 million to go after another free agent. So yeah the cap situation is complicated, and a strong argument can be made that scrapping all assets to get more might be shortsighted since there is a strong possibility $20 - $22 is more than needed and jettisoning ever piece for space for $3 mil more is pointless
Click to expand...
Nice breakdown Wargames. Thanks for putting this together.
 
tiger0330 said:
The Pistons are using that new stretch provision on JSmoove, spreading out the money owed him over 5 years.

The 2011 CBA dramatically changes this regimen. While contracts signed under the 2005 CBA remain under the original scheme, different rules apply to new contracts. When a team waives a player signed under the 2011 CBA, it can spread the remaining guaranteed salary (and its accompanying cap hit) over twice the remaining length of the contract, plus one year. According to Coon, "if a team has an underperforming player with one season remaining at $12 million, the team can waive him and stretch his salary across three seasons at $4 million per season."
Click to expand...

thanks ... didn't know that...
 
tiger0330 said:
Nice breakdown Wargames. Thanks for putting this together.
Click to expand...

no problem! With that said next year is all going to rely on the ping pong ball of the draft and who wants to leave their team. Lets not pretend that the same motivation of the money & the extra guaranteed year that got Melo to stay in in NY is not going to in effect for all this years FA.

We really have no idea how this is going to end up. The only difference between now and 2010 is that there are no flawed or injury prone players for the knicks to blow the cap on and the knicks already have a viable piece on the roster in Melo.

A lot of the **** happening now can be traced all the way to the scott layden and isiah thomas eras. As well as Grunwald and Walsh's mistakes. The knicks haven't had a chance to reboot like this since after the 1999 season when everything went to hell.

people often say the knicks need to rebuild from the ground up and in a lot of ways the knicks are in the exact position to do that starting this FA. They just have to make sure they don't pull bad deals like the Barfnani deals and they will be good.
 
Wargames said:
no problem! With that said next year is all going to rely on the ping pong ball of the draft and who wants to leave their team. Lets not pretend that the same motivation of the money & the extra guaranteed year that got Melo to stay in in NY is not going to in effect for all this years FA.

We really have no idea how this is going to end up. The only difference between now and 2010 is that there are no flawed or injury prone players for the knicks to blow the cap on and the knicks already have a viable piece on the roster in Melo.

A lot of the **** happening now can be traced all the way to the scott layden and isiah thomas eras. As well as Grunwald and Walsh's mistakes. The knicks haven't had a chance to reboot like this since after the 1999 season when everything went to hell.

people often say the knicks need to rebuild from the ground up and in a lot of ways the knicks are in the exact position to do that starting this FA. They just have to make sure they don't pull bad deals like the Barfnani deals and they will be good.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the info……
So next year what players we have in addition to Melo? Dali and the smiths? Calderon?

I am just trying to see what our team will look like next year, maybe that will take a little form the pain I am living right now with the current team…..
 
The Dragon said:
Thank you for the info……
So next year what players we have in addition to Melo? Dali and the smiths? Calderon?
Click to expand...



Me-Lo 22,8m
jose 7.4
jr 6.4
Pablo 1.7
thj 1.3
early 845k ... total 40.5m..give or take

shump if they pick up his qualifying offer , its 3.9, acy n wear each have a team option at 1m plus..

if they pick up all the options, then its 46+.... ouch... don't leave much room for a max...
 
Well, if 46+ then we can sign a max, but the question is, since we will have a top draft pick with the current record, do we have a sign a max, or its better to get two or three very good players to have a well round team? next year we need a point guard and a center.
 
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