PG Problem for 2010

[NYKnuniversity]

Herein lies the problem. Delvin Harris is making 9million a year through the 2012-13 season. So you draft Wall and pay him the same money and now your backcourt is making 18mil a year and they have to share the ball. Can Wall play 2 as well as 1??? Not sure but from what I have seen the his weakness is his jumper. Will Harris take the "demotion" and move from 1 to 2??? Will two multi-millionaires share one basketball??? If not you have to find another team that needs a PG willing to take on Harris salary on a trade(maybe our Knicks) with 2010 free agent class looming??? So then I google that Xi dude and his weaknesses are defense, rebounding and low-post game and at 7'1" 230 this guy couldn't even be used as a paper weight. That's why I don't get why you draft a guy like that and your team ends up 3-40 because you are softer than a jelly donut in the middle trying to match up in the Eastern conference. So for my money I still draft Favors if I'm the Nets to beef up my frontline, put Xi on the BENCH where he belongs, because at 9 million a year, I am set at point.

They are going to obviously trade Devin if they draft Wall...there is no issue there. That's common knowledge. They probably will not resign Yi (not Xi) and even if they do, they have the 2nd best center in the East in Brook Lopez. I don't know what teams you are refferring to when you say "match up" with the centers in the East...The east has 1 other legitimate center Dwight Howard, and the rest are out of position PF's. In drafting Wall, and then trading Harris, they will get an incredible load of talent. Googling that Yi's weaknesses are defense and rebounding don't do justice on his game. The guy averages 16 and 7 per. No way in hell they take Favors over Wall.

 

[knickzrulezH20]

LOL....Delvin Harris and Xi...boy i wish the Knicks could have those guys!

 

[knickzrulezH20]

They are going to obviously trade Devin if they draft Wall...there is no issue there. That's common knowledge. They probably will not resign Yi (not Xi) and even if they do, they have the 2nd best center in the East in Brook Lopez. I don't know what teams you are refferring to when you say "match up" with the centers in the East...The east has 1 other legitimate center Dwight Howard, and the rest are out of position PF's. In drafting Wall, and then trading Harris, they will get an incredible load of talent. Googling that Yi's weaknesses are defense and rebounding don't do justice on his game. The guy averages 16 and 7 per. No way in hell they take Favors over Wall.

Agreed bro...Wall>>Favors. Don't get me wrong Favors is a good looking prospect. John Wall is just so much ahead of his fellow collegiate peers right now. The Nets would take him in a heartbeat and then trade "Delvin Harris"

 

[jimkcchief88]

They are going to obviously trade Devin if they draft Wall...there is no issue there. That's common knowledge. They probably will not resign Yi (not Xi) and even if they do, they have the 2nd best center in the East in Brook Lopez. I don't know what teams you are refferring to when you say "match up" with the centers in the East...The east has 1 other legitimate center Dwight Howard, and the rest are out of position PF's. In drafting Wall, and then trading Harris, they will get an incredible load of talent. Googling that Yi's weaknesses are defense and rebounding don't do justice on his game. The guy averages 16 and 7 per. No way in hell they take Favors over Wall.

Uhhh...Shaq and the Big ticket off the top of my head. You say its common knowledge that's the Nets are "trading" Devin Harris. Who is going to take Devin Harris' 9 million a year for the next three years??? You better come up with one of Metro's crazy fantasy trade senarios to swing that one: Kentucky is losing by 5 to unranked SC with under 5 minutes left and Wall is being shut down... IDK....

 

[jimkcchief88]

Agreed bro...Wall>>Favors. Don't get me wrong Favors is a good looking prospect. John Wall is just so much ahead of his fellow collegiate peers right now. The Nets would take him in a heartbeat and then trade "Delvin Harris"

Uhhhhh....The Cats just lost to unranked South Carolina and Mr "so much ahead of his peers" got out showed up by Devon Downing of from SC. Mr "5'10 in heels" Downey dropped 30 and Mr Wall had 5 points until midway through the second half in a losing effort on the road... It pays to actually WATCH basketball, not just read magazines.....

 

[knickzrulezH20]

Uhhhhh....The Cats just lost to unranked South Carolina and Mr "so much ahead of his peers" got out showed up by Devon Downing of from SC. Mr "5'10 in heels" Downey dropped 30 and Mr Wall had 5 points until midway through the second half in a losing effort on the road... It pays to actually WATCH basketball, not just read magazines.....

Did Derrick Rose's Memphis team go undefeated? How about Mike Beasly's Kansas State team? What about Kevin Durant's Texas team? Hmm maybe Cp3's Wake Forest team went undefeated? Oh wait none of them did. Losses happen, it's a fact. Kentucky was bound to lose sooner or later, SC was a trap game and they didn't play with the same intensity that SC played with. John Wall is going to have an off night, and today was the day, but who cares? Every good player is gonna have an off night. Favors has gotten outplayed this year 2, and Favors team isn't nearly as good as Wall's team. John Wall>>Derrick Favors.

 

[NYKnuniversity]

Did Derrick Rose's Memphis team go undefeated? How about Mike Beasly's Kansas State team? What about Kevin Durant's Texas team? Hmm maybe Cp3's Wake Forest team went undefeated? Oh wait none of them did. Losses happen, it's a fact. Kentucky was bound to lose sooner or later, SC was a trap game and they didn't play with the same intensity that SC played with. John Wall is going to have an off night, and today was the day, but who cares? Every good player is gonna have an off night. Favors has gotten outplayed this year 2, and Favors team isn't nearly as good as Wall's team. John Wall>>Derrick Favors.

Agreed brutha. Losses happen. He's still averaging 17 points per game even after this game on a team with a lot more talent (Projected lottery picks in Patrick Patterson and DeMarcus Cousins also. Also, they have Eric Bledsoe and who was a 5 star recruit). Wall has to work for his shots so there gunna be nights where Kentucky relies on others besides Wall. Its very rare to see a team undefeated in the NCAA, and especially a team with a super star. In college, teams get away with having less talent if they can buy into the team mentality. I wish the Knicks would do that...lol

 

[ANU]

downey gave them the business.and that's exactly what i mean about wall.he is not a pure pg.he is the sg in that system on defense and the default pg on offense.he is not a better option than harris is at this point for the nets, he is more or less the same, so the nets adding him and getting rid of harris for whatever doesn't really make sense.and derrick favors has as much upside at pf as wall does at pg.

i still want the knicks to trade lee, hill and chandler for gsw's pick to get him though.

 

[jimkcchief88]

Did Derrick Rose's Memphis team go undefeated? How about Mike Beasly's Kansas State team? What about Kevin Durant's Texas team? Hmm maybe Cp3's Wake Forest team went undefeated? Oh wait none of them did. Losses happen, it's a fact. Kentucky was bound to lose sooner or later, SC was a trap game and they didn't play with the same intensity that SC played with. John Wall is going to have an off night, and today was the day, but who cares? Every good player is gonna have an off night. Favors has gotten outplayed this year 2, and Favors team isn't nearly as good as Wall's team. John Wall>>Derrick Favors.

Uh....This is still basketball.... Losses happen, but how does "Mr So far ahead of everybody" let the dude he is checkin drop 30 on him in a loss.... Maybe Wall isn't as far ahead as you guys think.... Dropping 40 in losing effort is one thing... getting schooled on national TV is another....

 

[NYKnuniversity]

Uh....This is still basketball.... Losses happen, but how does "Mr So far ahead of everybody" let the dude he is checkin drop 30 on him in a loss.... Maybe Wall isn't as far ahead as you guys think.... Dropping 40 in losing effort is one thing... getting schooled on national TV is another....

In his defense though, people have bad games. Kobe and LeBron have had games in recent times that are similar. For example, when Kobe was checking Beno Udrih of Sacramento. Allowed him to score 21 points (10 above his season average). Of course Kobe got the last laugh when he nailed the buzzer beater to end the game ,but same idea. Players have off nights. I don't agree with ANU either...Wall is as close as it gets to being a pure point guard in this draft. Devin Harris is NOT a combo guard either...Just because he scores doesn't make him a SG combination. He only averages 14 points a game also. His down scoring is partially contributed to his off year, but at the same time hes playing more of a pure point in the offense.

 

[ANU]

I don't agree with ANU either...Wall is as close as it gets to being a pure point guard in this draft.

maybe in this draft, but that's not saying much.this draft is clearly not a pg draft unlike last year.

Devin Harris is NOT a combo guard either...Just because he scores doesn't make him a SG combination. He only averages 14 points a game also. His down scoring is partially contributed to his off year, but at the same time hes playing more of a pure point in the offense.

aside from perhaps being the best player in the draft, why should the nets draft wall then?and harris scoring is down because he's been injured.the guy averages 6 ast per game, like derrick rose.6 asts don't cut it in the nba when your a point guard.that's like a star frontcourt player having a 450% shooting percentage.6ast a game makes you a combo guard.

 

[smokes]

Herein lies the problem. Delvin Harris is making 9million a year through the 2012-13 season. So you draft Wall and pay him the same money and now your backcourt is making 18mil a year and they have to share the ball. Can Wall play 2 as well as 1??? Not sure but from what I have seen the his weakness is his jumper. Will Harris take the "demotion" and move from 1 to 2??? Will two multi-millionaires share one basketball??? If not you have to find another team that needs a PG willing to take on Harris salary on a trade(maybe our Knicks) with 2010 free agent class looming??? So then I google that Xi dude and his weaknesses are defense, rebounding and low-post game and at 7'1" 230 this guy couldn't even be used as a paper weight. That's why I don't get why you draft a guy like that and your team ends up 3-40 because you are softer than a jelly donut in the middle trying to match up in the Eastern conference. So for my money I still draft Favors if I'm the Nets to beef up my frontline, put Xi on the BENCH where he belongs, because at 9 million a year, I am set at point.

Do you know how NBA contracts work? The #1 pick does not earn 9 million per... About half that is what #1 pick gets... The qualifying offer for a #1 pick is around 9 million and that doesn't come into effect for Wall until 2014/15 season so you're making no sense here.

As for "who is going to take on Harris 9 million?"... errrr, anyone that wants a good PG for a fair price? 9 mill isn't exactly breaking the bank for a solid PG with good upside. He's still young and he's a top 5 PG in the east. For comparison's sake, Mo Williams is also on a 9 million contract for the next 4 years, and Rondo signed an extention that gives him 6 years starting at 9 and rising to 13 million... So yeah, it's a fair contract.

And lastly, your attempts to downgrade Walls value by saying that Kentucky lost a game... loooooooool. They were the only team in College basketball unbeaten before yesterday, Wall played his ass off in every game and made some incredible plays. He's a FRESHMAN. His stats are off the wall for a freshman. He's also improved significantly throughout the season. And yes, I've watched more than 50% of UK's games this season.

 

[Red]

Well due to our plan of 1-2 Max free agents, the lack of available/enticing PG's in FA there is only two solutions: Trade for a draft pick (1st rnd) -or- Trade for a PG. Trading for a guard would lead to that player being rented for a 1/2 season and then becoming a FA, so that is counter intuitive to "the plan". Although I would not hesitate to trade anyone on this team maybe except Gallo and our Rooks (and that's only due to financial reasons b/c they're cheap), that includes Lee. Lee IMO has one thing against him and its not defense ineptitude - but that's part of it. Basically I feel one " max contract" player MUST be a big man who can defend/rebound & score in the post. David has skills but he/his agent will out-price him in terms of what else we are trying to do. We will eventually have to decide on staying loyal to Lee (and overpaying) or going in a diff direction. He would be immensly valuabe (to us & everyone) if he would take less but that's not happenin'. Lee is good but IMO not @ his asking price. Do we compete or appease Lee (and fans)- I say compete. Next, what teams have: 1. cap space while 2. are a player away from a playoff run? This option means the pick we get will be low anyway so... how do we get our Point Guard of the Future? Is it Douglas?

 

[jimkcchief88]

Do you know how NBA contracts work? The #1 pick does not earn 9 million per... About half that is what #1 pick gets... The qualifying offer for a #1 pick is around 9 million and that doesn't come into effect for Wall until 2014/15 season so you're making no sense here.

As for "who is going to take on Harris 9 million?"... errrr, anyone that wants a good PG for a fair price? 9 mill isn't exactly breaking the bank for a solid PG with good upside. He's still young and he's a top 5 PG in the east. For comparison's sake, Mo Williams is also on a 9 million contract for the next 4 years, and Rondo signed an extention that gives him 6 years starting at 9 and rising to 13 million... So yeah, it's a fair contract.

And lastly, your attempts to downgrade Walls value by saying that Kentucky lost a game... loooooooool. They were the only team in College basketball unbeaten before yesterday, Wall played his ass off in every game and made some incredible plays. He's a FRESHMAN. His stats are off the wall for a freshman. He's also improved significantly throughout the season. And yes, I've watched more than 50% of UK's games this season.

Ok, so you are a Kentucky fan defending your boy Wall so I get that. But if you were paying attention to the thread I was responding to "Wall is so much better than his college peers" meanwhile Wall was getting sliced and diced by a virtual unknown on an unranked team. Wall couldn't stay with Downey even when he had one or two guys helping him...

Oh and I looked up the rookie salary scale and you are right, instead of a market value its about 4 million a year for the 1st 3 years with an escalator on year 4. So while the Nets are paying Harris 9 million a year if they draft Wall at 1st pick he would get his max for so you are spending 13 million on one position. Thanks for the correction.

Bottomline is you are missing my point. These guys already have Wall drafted 1#, Delvin Harris traded, Wall's shoe contract and 20x20 billboard outside the Nets new arena and we aren't even halfway through college conference play yet..... Still alot of hoops to be played and maybe the Nets won't wanna pay another PG big money, that's all.....

 

[NYKnuniversity]

Ok, so you are a Kentucky fan defending your boy Wall so I get that. But if you were paying attention to the thread I was responding to "Wall is so much better than his college peers" meanwhile Wall was getting sliced and diced by a virtual unknown on an unranked team. Wall couldn't stay with Downey even when he had one or two guys helping him...

Oh and I looked up the rookie salary scale and you are right, instead of a market value its about 4 million a year for the 1st 3 years with an escalator on year 4. So while the Nets are paying Harris 9 million a year if they draft Wall at 1st pick he would get his max for so you are spending 13 million on one position. Thanks for the correction.

Bottomline is you are missing my point. These guys already have Wall drafted 1#, Delvin Harris traded, Wall's shoe contract and 20x20 billboard outside the Nets new arena and we aren't even halfway through college conference play yet..... Still alot of hoops to be played and maybe the Nets won't wanna pay another PG big money, that's all.....

So who are they going to pick oh wise one? You've been bashing on Wall's performance from one game and seem to be convinced he's not the Nets guy based only on the one game you watched all season...

Wall IS miles and miles ahead of his college peers. The other top 5 projected lottery picks (Favors, Davis, Turner and Cousins) all have a TON of growing up to do. Wall does as well, but the point is that he is MILES ahead in the maturation process.

The only other player that will make a splash in this draft is Evan Turner. He has the skill sets that every GM craves. He's a tall guard or a small forward who can literally do it all pass, create for others, run the floor, crash the boards, take over a game...but he can't shoot. His jump shot looks U-G-L-Y at times and its definitely going to need to improve before he is a number-one-pick quality player.

I see where your Wall doubts are coming from, but at the same time you're being a bit too critical.

 

[jimkcchief88]

So who are they going to pick oh wise one? You've been bashing on Wall's performance from one game and seem to be convinced he's not the Nets guy based only on the one game you watched all season...

Wall IS miles and miles ahead of his college peers. The other top 5 projected lottery picks (Favors, Davis, Turner and Cousins) all have a TON of growing up to do. Wall does as well, but the point is that he is MILES ahead in the maturation process.

The only other player that will make a splash in this draft is Evan Turner. He has the skill sets that every GM craves. He's a tall guard or a small forward who can literally do it all pass, create for others, run the floor, crash the boards, take over a game...but he can't shoot. His jump shot looks U-G-L-Y at times and its definitely going to need to improve before he is a number-one-pick quality player.

I see where your Wall doubts are coming from, but at the same time you're being a bit too critical.

All I am saying is I have seen Wall play in two games. The first one was against UConn and Wall was throwing up doorknobs so that tells me his jumper is a little suspect. The second was the other night where his defensive liabilities got exposed. Even Calipari admitted after the game his team was LUCKY to only have that loss on their resume considering how young the team is.

I am not claiming to be "wiser" than anybody else, but I have watched more basketball over time than most on this board. I am old enough to have watched Bird vs Magic's NCAA championship game, Phi Slamma Jamma and Ewing's Georgetown Hoyas. Dean Smith had a young guard named Micheal Jordan around the same time, but Dean was smart enough to keep Jordan in check so he learned to play the game THE RIGHT WAY.

Maybe I am being overly critical of Wall, but do you think I am being more or less critical than a GM whose job DEPENDS on making the right pick and will be responsible for forking over 20 million dollars over the next four years to a 19 year old????? People still talk about the idiot who took Kenny "Sky" Walker before Micheal Jordan.

 

[ANU]

People still talk about the idiot who took Kenny "Sky" Walker before Micheal Jordan.

olajuwon and bowie were taken before jordan.but i agree with your assessment, cause it validates what I've been saying, wall is a combo guard.besides, if the nets want too, they can take wall and have superstar combo backcourt, all the while they neglect there best player on the post.

either way its not a given the nets get the first pick.

its a lotto.

but the fact is the 3 worst teams need in the nba aren't exactly having trouble at the pg position.

 

[jimkcchief88]

olajuwon and bowie were taken before jordan.but i agree with your assessment, cause it validates what I've been saying, wall is a combo guard.besides, if the nets want too, they can take wall and have superstar combo backcourt, all the while they neglect there best player on the post.

either way its not a given the nets get the first pick.

its a lotto.

but the fact is the 3 worst teams need in the nba aren't exactly having trouble at the pg position.

So maybe that top team can switch him play the 2???? On the upside Wall is very athletic on the offensive end. Looks like he can catch and shoot alright and can jump out of the gym. Is he a lefty??? I thought I saw Wall throw one down pretty nasty, but it was lefty. If so, that's a plus. I love the convo's because its make me pay more attention to college ball.

 

[ANU]

So maybe that top team can switch him play the 2???? On the upside Wall is very athletic on the offensive end. Looks like he can catch and shoot alright and can jump out of the gym. Is he a lefty??? I thought I saw Wall throw one down pretty nasty, but it was lefty. If so, that's a plus. I love the convo's because its make me pay more attention to college ball.

no he's right handed but he's equally adept with his left.i don't think playing shooting guard will be a problem for him; if anything he's well equipped because of his length.

i personally think that turner is a better fit for the top 3 worst teams than wall is.when people talk about upside, they talk about it like some magically untouched gift that few have.turner has upside as well, and the problem with most gms is, like many fans, they fall for the sexy pick just cause they can run a little faster, or jump al little higher.this is why most of the worst franchises are always in the lotto.they don't pick the right players.

the nets got it right when they drafted lopez.now, if they don't end up with a top 2 pick (its a lotto after all) and can't get turner or wall they should call minny up and trade the pick for rubio.

but if they do land the first pick, and they are looking at pf, we have one that would be an ideal pf next to lopez in gallinari.gallinari would create alot of space for lopez, and they' both be hell to deal with for years to come.maybe gallo, chandler, douglas would be enough for a the top pick in the draft? some might disagree but i think people are always going to overrate the shit out of the first pick, when sometimes its a crap shoot.

personally i'd try make that deal if donnie is (if amar'e lands in cleveland ebfore the deadline pretty much will indicate that lebron is not going anywhere this summer) intent re-signing david lee; and if that's the case, somebody at pf has to get moved.i don't want to see lee as a center for another season.that team will have 32 win season written all over it.

 

[jimkcchief88]

no he's right handed but he's equally adept with his left.i don't think playing shooting guard will be a problem for him; if anything he's well equipped because of his length.

i personally think that turner is a better fit for the top 3 worst teams than wall is.when people talk about upside, they talk about it like some magically untouched gift that few have.turner has upside as well, and the problem with most gms is, like many fans, they fall for the sexy pick just cause they can run a little faster, or jump al little higher.this is why most of the worst franchises are always in the lotto.they don't pick the right players.

the nets got it right when they drafted lopez.now, if they don't end up with a top 2 pick (its a lotto after all) and can't get turner or wall they should call minny up and trade the pick for rubio.

but if they do land the first pick, and they are looking at pf, we have one that would be an ideal pf next to lopez in gallinari.gallinari would create alot of space for lopez, and they' both be hell to deal with for years to come.maybe gallo, chandler, douglas would be enough for a the top pick in the draft? some might disagree but i think people are always going to overrate the shit out of the first pick, when sometimes its a crap shoot.

personally i'd try make that deal if donnie is (if amar'e lands in cleveland ebfore the deadline pretty much will indicate that lebron is not going anywhere this summer) intent re-signing david lee; and if that's the case, somebody at pf has to get moved.i don't want to see lee as a center for another season.that team will have 32 win season written all over it.

Wall is pretty nasty then if he is that good with his left being a righty. I like that. I totally agree the top pick is usually overrated. If Wall is smart he is taking Calipari's lessons to heart because he is a good coach. D. Rose is starting to emerge here in the Chi and its pretty amazing to watch and he only needed one year under Calipari. As you keep pointing out this is a lotto(which got rigged for Chi 2 years ago I am convinced) so that top team could move Wall to 2 if they are set at point. I will start keeping a better eye on him. Thanks.