StEpHoN_mArBuRy
All Star
That game went to triple ot..
I'm not willing to throw Mike D'Antoni under the bus. I'm giving this man a chance.
- Thread starter KnicksFanFromQueens1985
- Start date
KingofNy
Starter
+1
We gave up 110+ points 29 of our 60 games. That's almost exactly half of our games. That's not even counting the 23 games we gave up 100-109. So in a total of 52 games out of 60 we gave up 100+. That's disgusting.
We gave up 131 to Utah and 129 to Phoenix, both without even going to overtime. How much more do we have to let our opponents score before people realize it's the coach/system that's the problem... NOT THE PLAYERS!
LJ4ptplay
Starter
D'Antoni will end up being fired. Not because I don't think he can win a championship. I think he is a good coach and I think he can win a championship with the right pieces. But he will be fired because we traded all our assets, draft picks and depth for Melo. Somebody will take the fall for that and it will be D'Antoni.
KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Banned
I cant disagree with you more LJ. No way D'Antoni gets fired, especially after making the playoffs (if we do) for the first time in a long time. Add to the fact that he's been working with 4 & now 5 starters that weren't with the Knicks last year & his job is safe for the time being.
Also, we didn't give up too much.
Wrong or right; Randolph had no future with the Knicks.
Curry had no future with the Knicks to begin.
Even if NY would have taken a huge gamble & signed Melo as a FA; Chandler would have been gone as a FA regardless.
Lets not consider Mozgov a loss. He was a project C from Russia only averaging 4 & 3. Every player has "potential".
What have we lost so far?
Even if we kept Gallo, he would have been a 6th man off the bench. How many mins would he have earned behind Melo? Not many. Add to the fact that we have an up & coming TD, who will make for a strong 6th man, with S.Will/Walker backing up Melo @ SF & the loss of Gallo isn't a big deal. We landed a GREAT.
Billups over Felton all day.
Also, we didn't give up too much.
Wrong or right; Randolph had no future with the Knicks.
Curry had no future with the Knicks to begin.
Even if NY would have taken a huge gamble & signed Melo as a FA; Chandler would have been gone as a FA regardless.
Lets not consider Mozgov a loss. He was a project C from Russia only averaging 4 & 3. Every player has "potential".
What have we lost so far?
Even if we kept Gallo, he would have been a 6th man off the bench. How many mins would he have earned behind Melo? Not many. Add to the fact that we have an up & coming TD, who will make for a strong 6th man, with S.Will/Walker backing up Melo @ SF & the loss of Gallo isn't a big deal. We landed a GREAT.
Billups over Felton all day.
ronoranina
Fundamentally Sound
damn LJ.. you act like we're not set up to be a 50 win team for the next 3 seasons @ the very least.
KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Banned
Our offense started off red hot. Slowed down from the middle to end of the 1st. At least we played strong team defense holding Atlanta to 19 points. Defense taking charges and all...
Douglas is a spark off the bench/starter & nice to have a vet like Carter as a 3rd option..
Douglas is a spark off the bench/starter & nice to have a vet like Carter as a 3rd option..
KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Banned
Damn forgot which thread I was in. My fault.
Is it MDA's fault that we have the #2 (and what could end as the #1) offense in the league?
Or that if/when we face a #2 or 3 seeded team in the playoffs, our ability to realistically win will be a bonefied reality?
Or, that, over the backdrop of this -- almost every analyst, and KO member (especially the anti-MDA crew) had us penciled in as a hopefully .500, likely playoff-missing team?
I just need these things reconciled before I began starting threads demanding our coach get fired mid-season. To say nothing of how powerful we will be, and can be, once our (again) restructured roster has time to gel.
And maybe we get a halfway adequate starting C at the most premium defensive position, that means ever more to us given our reserves and our starting PF, and see what this "defense" looks like then.
Or that if/when we face a #2 or 3 seeded team in the playoffs, our ability to realistically win will be a bonefied reality?
Or, that, over the backdrop of this -- almost every analyst, and KO member (especially the anti-MDA crew) had us penciled in as a hopefully .500, likely playoff-missing team?
I just need these things reconciled before I began starting threads demanding our coach get fired mid-season. To say nothing of how powerful we will be, and can be, once our (again) restructured roster has time to gel.
And maybe we get a halfway adequate starting C at the most premium defensive position, that means ever more to us given our reserves and our starting PF, and see what this "defense" looks like then.
I like LJ, besides being undisputed cap guru and knowing ins and outs of NBA as well as anyone...
IMO, his speculation here is pessimistically clouded by how fundamentally opposed he is to superstars hijacking negotiations, superstar egos and grandiosity, etc...Lebron fiasco, now Melo, etc
Arguably, I would agree that the fear would be we ARE the next version of the Hawks, or say ORL (before this year) at best. And are locked into being a winning, but forever chip'less team, that never moves enough in either direction to facilitator changes and bold moves that would be needed.
KnicksFanFromQueens1985
Banned
Well said iSaYughh.
I agree with your OP. I'm not ready to throw MDA under the bus either. Basically bc we are the ****ing bus that is and will be running other people over.
This would be like businesses setting standards and mandates for their workers; having their employees meet, or exceed, them.
Then shit-canning them bc the company had a few hiccups dealing with profit (already having been made by them); or 'just not liking them' and assuming the next person will surely be The Perfect person, solve the (already fixable) issues that existed, and maintain the (exiting) advantages that have been.
And don't mind the excessive bitching about your LAK miscue. More semantics than anything. Bball grammar police. :alert:
nuckles2k2
Superstar
5 coaches have won the past 15 NBA championships. Phil with 8, Greg Pops with 4, Larry Brown, Pat Riley, and Doc Rivers.
They all coached defense as well as offense, maybe some more than others...but all certainly coached it more than Mikey D does. That's going back to 1995...well over a decade ago, and it would go even further back to the early 90s, but I made the cut off at the 94-95 Rockets with Rudy T.
It's not like the NBA is a league where any old "good coach" can win. 5 dudes coaching 15 championship winning teams, all with great players, but also similar philosophies at their cores. And D'Antoni is the exact opposite...but he's somehow gonna buck the trend and be that guy that enters his name in that elite category with a philosophy that he hasn't brought to fruition yet...call me a hater...a pessimist, whatever. But I don't see it.
They all coached defense as well as offense, maybe some more than others...but all certainly coached it more than Mikey D does. That's going back to 1995...well over a decade ago, and it would go even further back to the early 90s, but I made the cut off at the 94-95 Rockets with Rudy T.
It's not like the NBA is a league where any old "good coach" can win. 5 dudes coaching 15 championship winning teams, all with great players, but also similar philosophies at their cores. And D'Antoni is the exact opposite...but he's somehow gonna buck the trend and be that guy that enters his name in that elite category with a philosophy that he hasn't brought to fruition yet...call me a hater...a pessimist, whatever. But I don't see it.
nuckles2k2
Superstar
It's also quite a coincidence that the Bulls have 8 new players on their roster (only 4 returning from last year) but they also get the #1 defensive assistant as their head coach and he brings in his friend Ron Adams, who was the defensive assistant for the Thunder, and both teams are immediately effected. The Bulls get off to a start playing excellent defense and are maintaining it throughout the season, and the Thunder started the season with a subpar defense...especially when compared to last year.
But yet D'Antoni is a good enough defensive coach in waiting because...the roster was turned over....no wait, because he doesn't have his guys...no, uh, because we're good per 100 possesions....huh? no we're not? Does anyone else have anymore obscure stats from the book Basketball on Paper? Cause you know....the game is played on paper and shit...that's how Phil and Pops won 12 rings in 15 seasons.
But yet D'Antoni is a good enough defensive coach in waiting because...the roster was turned over....no wait, because he doesn't have his guys...no, uh, because we're good per 100 possesions....huh? no we're not? Does anyone else have anymore obscure stats from the book Basketball on Paper? Cause you know....the game is played on paper and shit...that's how Phil and Pops won 12 rings in 15 seasons.
Two words:
Doc Rivers.
He "was" shit. Performed infinitely worse than MDA, had a worse pedigree, and had branding irons under his hot seat.
Now he's included in the champion coaches circle, and an instrumental part of showing why MDA must go,
Yet he is a part of the proof as why MDA must not (at least not right now).
Teams need three things for defense, above all else -- including coaching:
Defensive wizards and gamers (obvious)
Vocal/revered defense-craving players, especially bigs (Garnett? Perkins? Duncan? Noah? Kobe?)
Depth (to let players, especially those NOT naturally gifted or inclined, to make the key stops and plays, especially late in games).
All of this again illustrates that D is relatively easy to procure.
A player doesn't come to a team and make his other players magically nail 3s or become better offensive players.
Defensively, this happens. And it happens often.
Pau Gasol's transformation; and The Garnett Revolution, two prime examples. Of just recent ones, and ones related to championships.
Give us a vocal defensive player, let alone who is a C...how about we actually get a starting caliber C....
Some legit depth for our 3/4/5 rotation,
And a 1tricky pony defensive player or two,
And we will be dramatically better defensively, even if MDA is as forever-bad as you might think.
We will also have the hardest thing to achieve and cultivate:
Likely the #1 offense in the NBA for the next 5 years.
Defense, as Chauncey Billups and countless others have said, and history shows, has a lot to do with other players' influence, depth, and personal desire.
Coaching totally aside.
Doc Rivers.
He "was" shit. Performed infinitely worse than MDA, had a worse pedigree, and had branding irons under his hot seat.
Now he's included in the champion coaches circle, and an instrumental part of showing why MDA must go,
Yet he is a part of the proof as why MDA must not (at least not right now).
Teams need three things for defense, above all else -- including coaching:
Defensive wizards and gamers (obvious)
Vocal/revered defense-craving players, especially bigs (Garnett? Perkins? Duncan? Noah? Kobe?)
Depth (to let players, especially those NOT naturally gifted or inclined, to make the key stops and plays, especially late in games).
All of this again illustrates that D is relatively easy to procure.
A player doesn't come to a team and make his other players magically nail 3s or become better offensive players.
Defensively, this happens. And it happens often.
Pau Gasol's transformation; and The Garnett Revolution, two prime examples. Of just recent ones, and ones related to championships.
Give us a vocal defensive player, let alone who is a C...how about we actually get a starting caliber C....
Some legit depth for our 3/4/5 rotation,
And a 1tricky pony defensive player or two,
And we will be dramatically better defensively, even if MDA is as forever-bad as you might think.
We will also have the hardest thing to achieve and cultivate:
Likely the #1 offense in the NBA for the next 5 years.
Defense, as Chauncey Billups and countless others have said, and history shows, has a lot to do with other players' influence, depth, and personal desire.
Coaching totally aside.
ronoranina
Fundamentally Sound
Who said this team was good per 100 possessions??? I don't remember anyone saying that. I mentioned his previous teams were adequate to make the connection between Coach's previous forgotten or unknown work to most on the forum and what we can hope to see in the future w this team, but I don't remember myself or anyone else saying THIS team was good yet per 100..
Not sure you're being accurate in saying that.
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Clyde & The Pearl
Starter
I knew you'd be in here. Anything MDA has to be checked and rechecked. Lets see if I can find you in a neutral type thread...
The Garden '95
Benchwarmer
these lets keep dantoni threads are always made when we win 2-3 games in a row but when were stinking these so called dantoni embracers have picket signs just like the rest of us.
ronoranina
Fundamentally Sound
okay.. now you're just trolling :td:
JeffVanGundyPLEASE!
Benchwarmer
all he needs to do is hire a d minded assistant coach and were good just fo what doc rivers did in hiring tom thibs and were good
Clyde & The Pearl
Starter
Not trolling. Just proving a point. How many times do you have to argue and re-argue your position on MDA? Everyone here knows your stance. You're boarding on going insane...