I'm so sick & tired of these clueless MDA haters saying "MDA can never win a ring".

Like I said... MDA took THIS JOB knowing damn well that the Knicks were stuck in cap hell for at least two years with NO chance to compete. You all act is if "the Knicks just started sucking during the 2 years MDA's been here"; which is quite pathetic & sad @ the same time.

Really trying to compare Nate of the cap hell era with NY to the Celtics CHAMPIONSHIP team with stars like Pierce, KG, Allen, Perkins & up & coming stars such as Big-Baby, Rondo & a veteran C' such as Shaq? like... really? lmao @ how low can you go bro?

Question: MDA got here in 08. when was the last time NY even made the playoffs? better yet; when was the last time NY won a single playoff game?

You all blame MDA for our last 14 (Blame Dolan) games but fail to mention that A) MDA & Walsh were both 100% AGAINST this trade that B) Depleted MDA's current team & roster losing 3 starters who's been here since the offseason & C) Has this team 6-2 against winning teams.

you are are seriously... clueless.
 
MDA is 1 of 3 coaches that EVER took over for a team that lost 50+ games the previous year; & led that team to a 60+ win season the following year. Thats a sign of a great head coach. Someone who has the ability to turn a franchise around. As he's done here in NY.

We're on the verge of making the playoffs for the 1st time since 04. This will become MDA's 1st offseason, as Knicks head coach; that he's actually had a chance to build around a potential contender.

This man led PHX to 4 consecutive trips to the playoffs. 2 Western Conf Final apperances. 2 seasons of 54+ W's & 2 seasons of 60+ W's. That was during the years of an extremely tough Western Conf too. Sorry, but the East of now will NEVER be as tough as the West of then.

PHX lost to a Dynasty Spurs Franchise 3 times. If not for SA; MDA could have won 3 championships! MDA became the Suns coach back in 03.. The Spurs beat the Knicks back in 99. SA was a DYNASTY way before MDA became coach of PHX. SA was a dynasty, & thats not a knock on PHX or MDA...

You're still at it with the Suns playing dynasty type teams. You just dont get it kid. Let me explain.

In the playoffs all teams are the best in the league for that year. In order to get to the playoffs some teams play excellent offense, or defense. Some play pretty good at both ends. Some are below average defensively or offensively. The reasons teams play this way is because of their coach and the way the roster is constructed. Who gets burn, who doesnt.

Knowing all this what do you think will happen when an excellent offensive but below average defensive team meets a team that plays excellent offensively and defensively. The team that plays both well normally wins. See the team that plays well on both ends KNOWS going into the game that they'll be able to get a good shot just about anytime they want. Because the other team plays no defense. No pressure at all. The team that only plays offense will have to make a high number of shots because they dont stop anybody. Sometimes that doesnt happen. Made shots become a premium putting unwanted pressure on players.

I seem to remember Joe Johnson having a horrible game 7 (I think) back then.

The Suns had the talent to win a chip back then, but they lacked a defensive focus and length.

Another factor in this is the Suns roster construction. MDA had to know why they werent beating these teams in the playoffs. Its a known fact that it was defense and length. He did nothing to enhance either. He could have gotten and UTILIZED a defensive type big before Shaq. He didnt want that. He wanted to win it his way. He didnt want Shaq Daddy at the end either.

In essence MDA had a prime opportunity slip through his hands because of stubbornness.
 

jpz17

Starter
here is a great article for you guys.. it explains you all so well.

http://theknickswall.com/2011/03/18/mr-pringles/

n May 13, 2008, the New York Knicks? new President of Basketball Operations, Donnie Walsh, named Mike D?Antoni the 24th coach of the New York Knicks.
<center>
nba_g_dantoni_walsh_576.jpg
</center> An outside observer would see nothing wrong with this appointment, after all, D?Antoni and his high octane offense dubbed (Seven Seconds or Less) SSOL was the toast of the NBA only two seasons earlier and held a career .608 winning percentage while also being an assistant coach on the 2008 Olympic ?Redeem Team?. Knick fans however greeted the move with a collective groan, yours truly included.
It was not only the fan base however that critiqued the move, I recall Reggie Miller saying he didn?t ?know what Donnie was thinking?. Of course Miller wasn?t the only analyst but his quote is the one I recall most vividly.
Fast-forward to the present day and the groans have turned into full-blown calls for the departure of D?Antoni. Now I don?t intend for this post to be a critique or review of the job that D?Antoni has done simply because he has had a new roster every year, rather I intend to discover the reasons that D?Antoni has such a negative reputation among fans from the day he was made head coach.
In my belief the fans ?dislike?, if you will, for Mike D?Antoni goes back to his hiring.
At the time Knick fans that had just gone through the disastrous Isiah Thomas regime, and were excited for a new era captained by Walsh. Many Knick fans were longing for the days of the 90′s where the Knicks were a perennial force in the NBA and so it seemed only natural that Mark Jackson would be hired.Mark Jackson played on those 90′s teams and embodied everything about them. A defensive minded tough player who played with a certain NY swagger seemed to be a natural fit. However, it came as a major shock to the fan base when he was shunned in favor of Mike D?Antoni. Familiarity breeds content and the fans knew exactly what Jackson was all about. In essence D?Antoni is the exact opposite of Jackson.
Of course we don?t know what Jackson?s coaching philosophy would?ve been, but it is very likely that he would be much more defensive minded then D?Antoni, and Jackson?s coaching style would?ve embodied the way he played.
D?Antoni at the time and till this day is thought of as a coach who could care less about defense and is focused on his offensive system.
The drafting of Danilo Gallinari, and the subsequent injuries in his rookie-year, only increased the dislike for D?Antoni as Gallinari?s drafting was thought of as a favor by D?Antoni to Gallinari?s family. Of course the team on the court struggled during D?Antoni?s first two years, but Red Holzman wouldn?t have been able to take those rosters to the playoffs.
The disdain grew exponentially for D?Antoni with the benching of one, Nate Robinson. The consensus was that the benching was because of D?Antoni holding a personal grudge against Robinson. The calls for his head were louder then ever; chants of ?We Want Nate? would erupt from the Garden rafters even in blowout wins. Robinson was eventually traded but even more fans had become weary of D?Antoni.

<center>
dantoni-wack.jpg
</center> This season for the first time in 10 years, the Knicks have a winning roster but fans and everyone else voice the calls for D?Antoni?s head whenever there is a 2-3 game losing streak. The perception of fans hasn?t changed one bit.
The fans are still calling for their hero?s of the past, namely Jeff Van Gundy. Until the Knicks win playing Mike D?Antoni?s style, most of the fans will remain attached to the style that they remember last one their team games, the slow-it down grind of the 90′s.
Few recognize that the league has changed immensely since then. When the fans think of winning basketball they remember the style of the 90′s and want a coach who preaches 90′s basketball, but the league has become much more offensive minded and controlled by stars. It is essential these days to have a coach who players like playing for and D?Antoni definitely meets this criteria.
In 10-12 years, assuming this team goes on to be a success, don?t be surprised if the Knicks are recovering from a lean 2-3 years and fan?s want the coach at the time to be replaced with someone who shares D?Antoni?s coaching philosophy, because as we all know, familiarity breeds contempt and the fan?s are still getting used to D?Antoni?s style.
 

Deathstroke

Benchwarmer
There's only two point guards in the league that can run Dantoni's system well and that's Steve Nash and Derrick Rose, and to address this point we need to play some defense to win and Dantoni doesn't want to give the effort to play D or come up with schemes. He's got to go
 
Excellent post. Hit the nail on the head with Holzman not being able to win with those 2 years of cap hell rosters because of Thomas. It's true. These same fans "trying" to run MDA out of town now; are the same fans who never gave him a chance since day 1. These same fans bashing MDA during our past 14 games are the same fans who refuse understand that MDA was against this trade. These same fans who grew to love Gallo under MDA were the same fans who hated MDA for the drafting of the Italian kid. They fail to understand that MDA created nothings into somethings in Chandler, Gallo, Felton & Mozgov to land an elite superstar. The same fans who dreamed of Melo & Amare for their elite offensive talents (not D') are now Crying about not having top 10 D's. Never happy & always crying about SOMETHING. I grew up a die hard fan since 92 during the days of Harper, Hubert, Starks, Oakley, Mason, C.Smith, Ewing, Herb etc with top 5 D's & guess how many rings? ZERO. Riley's 'O' wasn't good enough to out-score CHI & MJ.
 

TheNYdude

Rookie
Excellent post. Hit the nail on the head with Holzman not being able to win with those 2 years of cap hell rosters because of Thomas. It's true. These same fans "trying" to run MDA out of town now; are the same fans who never gave him a chance since day 1. These same fans bashing MDA during our past 14 games are the same fans who refuse understand that MDA was against this trade. These same fans who grew to love Gallo under MDA were the same fans who hated MDA for the drafting of the Italian kid. They fail to understand that MDA created nothings into somethings in Chandler, Gallo, Felton & Mozgov to land an elite superstar. The same fans who dreamed of Melo & Amare for their elite offensive talents (not D') are now Crying about not having top 10 D's. Never happy & always crying about SOMETHING. I grew up a die hard fan since 92 during the days of Harper, Hubert, Starks, Oakley, Mason, C.Smith, Ewing, Herb etc with top 5 D's & guess how many rings? ZERO. Riley's 'O' wasn't good enough to out-score CHI & MJ.

Hey man, I havent seen you say talk about defense in any of your posts. Everytime someone brings up our lack of defensive structure, you start preaching about the old Suns. We are NOT the suns. We do NOT have the best offense in the east, so when you take a below average Defense with a maybe 3rd ranked offense, what do you get? 5th-7th ranked team.

We do not have a strong enough offense to make up for our awful defense. We need to strengthen the defense until the offense gets better. We NEED to strengthen our defense until our teams learns how to play as a team.

We have been resorting to isolation plays on offense, misguided shots (JJ and his stupid missed 3) and other poor offensive decisions since we are not used to each other. This is natural, its a whole new team. FOCUS ON DEFENSE WHILE OUR OFFENSE CONTINUES TO MESH.

DAntoni doesnt even mention defense when we lose. He says "thought our defense played well, we just couldnt make shots." This is a perfect example of his mindset. Think he said this after our loss to Indiana who scored 120 or something on us and he blames our shot percentage for our loss. That is a delusional, in denial, comment. They score 120, he thinks our defense is fine.... delusional.

Chicago, Boston, Orlando, LA, SA, etc are giving up an average of 10-15 (points against per game) LESS while we are averaging 5-8 points more on offense. These are facts... its right in our face here. We are at .500, they are .650-.800.

I dont know what else I can say, please at least tell me I am not crazy here.
 
@ CoolClyde... Wanna talk about MDA needed "great players"? Well, how many great players did Riley need in LA to win rings? lmao. Clueless once again.

@Harper... Wrong about MDA "needing Nash". Nash needed MDA & Amare. How is Nash doing these days? Exactly. Fell off.

Many people said Amare was only Amare because of Nash. This year proved ALL YOU GUYS such as Harper wrong as wrong could be.

MDA knows the PG position & doesn't need a HOF PG to score the most points in the league. The Knicks rank #2 in PPG this year under MDA & guess what? Raymond Felton is NOT an elite PG. MDA was voted as the greatest Italian PG of All-Time back in 1990 after leading his teams to championship after championship.
\



Anyone who says MDA "needed Nash"... Just goes to show how little they really know about MDA or basketball in general. For the people who thought Amare was only Amare because of Nash... You all are the SAME people saying MDA is only MDA because of Nash. Clueless hatred.


hold on NASH fell off

wait a minute give me a few minutes to check something

ill be right back

oh yeah there it is

nash

same field goal percentage

same minutes

increased by 2 assists per game since dantoni left from 9.7 two years ago to 11.3 this year. same rebounds . same free throws, three pointers, and ppg average. TOOK HIS TEAM to the eastern conference finals last year with out dantoni avg 18 ppg and 10 assists in the playoffs.

can some one please tell me at which point did NASH Fall off when Dantoni left ???

some one

please any one

some one chime in and tell me how NASH fell off after dantoni ???

im dying to figure this one out.

or how chandlers putting up the same numbers with a deeper nuggets team as he did in a knicks uniform , learning to play team defense under a better coach in george karl.
 

PaPZ187

Benchwarmer
Hey man, I havent seen you say talk about defense in any of your posts. Everytime someone brings up our lack of defensive structure, you start preaching about the old Suns. We are NOT the suns. We do NOT have the best offense in the east, so when you take a below average Defense with a maybe 3rd ranked offense, what do you get? 5th-7th ranked team.

We do not have a strong enough offense to make up for our awful defense. We need to strengthen the defense until the offense gets better. We NEED to strengthen our defense until our teams learns how to play as a team.

We have been resorting to isolation plays on offense, misguided shots (JJ and his stupid missed 3) and other poor offensive decisions since we are not used to each other. This is natural, its a whole new team. FOCUS ON DEFENSE WHILE OUR OFFENSE CONTINUES TO MESH.

DAntoni doesnt even mention defense when we lose. He says "thought our defense played well, we just couldnt make shots." This is a perfect example of his mindset. Think he said this after our loss to Indiana who scored 120 or something on us and he blames our shot percentage for our loss. That is a delusional, in denial, comment. They score 120, he thinks our defense is fine.... delusional.

Chicago, Boston, Orlando, LA, SA, etc are giving up an average of 10-15 (points against per game) LESS while we are averaging 5-8 points more on offense. These are facts... its right in our face here. We are at .500, they are .650-.800.

I dont know what else I can say, please at least tell me I am not crazy here.

I agree 100% bro and feel the same way. We need to focus on D while our team takes time to get used to playing with each other.

No one expects MDA to have this team firing on all cylinders at this point, its just not realistic to expect that, but it is fair to atleast expect some more effort on the defensive side of the ball and put more work into becoming a better team while our O is still gelling.

One misconception about the "MDA Haters" is that we excpect him to have this team firing on all cylinders, this is far from the truth. Thr problem most of us have is his defensive philosophy (or lack there of) and that it goes against everything history tells us about Championship teams. Yes, LA once won a title while not being a top 10 D team in the regular season, but they were the exception, not the rule.

I still want to give D'Antoni atleast the rest of this year and the playoffs to show that he has given defense more importance with the team and is more dedicated to becoming a solid to possibly good Defensive team. Now does that mean I expect him to improve us by leaps and bounds in the remaining 15+ games and playoffs? NO, but I would like to see some sort of consistent improvement. Thats not to much to ask for, is it?
 

smokes

Huge Member
Since I am not a D'antoni hater I'll see if you can counter what's being said from a neutral standpoint.

You can throw around hundreds of statements; "defense wins championships", "defense leads to strong offense", yadda yadda yadda... The bottom line is pretty much every team sport success relies on a strong defensive unit and workrate. D'antoni simply does NOT bring this to NY. You can argue whether he tries to or not, sure he says all the right things sometimes, but actions speak louder than words and in terms of the actions we've seen on the court this season defense is simply not happening.

Also MDA had exactly the kind of players he needed to run his system at maximum efficiency in PHX. Billups is not the same as Nash. Melo is not the same as Marion. Stat is not the same as PHX Stat.

Take a look in other sports, football (soccer) for example. Arsenal had huge success 6-10 years ago and ever since have been a perennial top 3 team in English football. However they have not won ANY major trophy for 6 years now and why is that? It's because the entire focus of their gameplan is playing "entertaining, free flowing, attacking football" (ring any bells) and they don't have enough quality defensive personnel to make up for their lack of defensive emphasis.

You may not have the knowledge of football to understand but Arsenal are on a similar level to say last years Cavs or the Magic etc. Right up there in the thick of things. They just lost a major trophy to Birmingham City, a mid-low table team. Guess why? Defense.

I would not go so far as to say it is impossible to win a championship under D'antoni but I think Knicks fans would suffer a whole lot less frustration if we had a true 2 way coach.
 
First & foremost guys; you all have one hell of a Knicks site here. The insight reminds me of throwback days with friends as a kid talking Knicks ball in the court yards of S.Ozone. I may disagree with plenty of members of this site when it comes to the coach & teams dirrection or what not, but I understand we're all NY fans who simply want the best for this franchise. When it's all said & done? I enjoy you all as posters & can agree to disagree & go onto the next topic. I'll be the first one to admit; sometimes I voice my opinion in terms of MDA but thats what being a sports fan is all about; thats just the New Yorker in us. No matter our feelings for MDA, or the future of this team, or even our insight before & after games... The is no such thing as being right or wrong; it's all based on sports opinion & gut feelings. One thing is for sure we've; all dreamed of a Knicks championship in whats already been too long of a wait. 30+ years of Knicks fans ready to explode like a volcano after every mistake/loss.
 

PaPZ187

Benchwarmer
First & foremost guys; you all have one hell of a Knicks site here. The insight reminds me of throwback days with friends as a kid talking Knicks ball in the court yards of S.Ozone. I may disagree with plenty of members of this site when it comes to the coach & teams dirrection or what not, but I understand we're all NY fans who simply want the best for this franchise. When it's all said & done? I enjoy you all as posters & can agree to disagree & go onto the next topic. I'll be the first one to admit; sometimes I voice my opinion in terms of MDA but thats what being a sports fan is all about; thats just the New Yorker in us. No matter our feelings for MDA, or the future of this team, or even our insight before & after games... The is no such thing as being right or wrong; it's all based on sports opinion & gut feelings. One thing is for sure we've; all dreamed of a Knicks championship in whats already been too long of a wait. 30+ years of Knicks fans ready to explode like a volcano after every mistake/loss.

Agreed 100% bro, great post.

Even though we may have diffrent opinions or outlooks on the team, we are all Knicks fans and all want the same thing - a Title.

This also reminds me of arguing with my brothers and friends about sports growing up, always fighting, always disagreeing, but in the end of the day its all about fun and rooting for your team!

GO KNICKS!!!!!!
 

la2ny

Starter
Thats exactly what it reminds me of arguing on the bball courts about the team. While fun it was a headache and some of the other opinions were so crazy and far fetched kind of made you just leave it alone, but you knew that other person hoped 4 the same thing you wanted.

EDIT:Wth comic sans, I must have caught Dan Gilbert Syndrome
 

TheNYdude

Rookie
Agreed. Just like politics brotha, most people have the best intentions and want the same success, just different ideologies and ways to get there.
 

melo.7

Rookie
I'm sorry bro, but this thread is a giant load of shit. Get a coach in here that knows something about DEFENSE too. We have the talent on this team, with hopefully more on the way next year. NO WAY we do anything in the playoffs with a coach that only cares about scoring.
 
I'm sorry bro, but this thread is a giant load of shit. Get a coach in here that knows something about DEFENSE too. We have the talent on this team, with hopefully more on the way next year. NO WAY we do anything in the playoffs with a coach that only cares about scoring.
Lmao :agreed:
 

HarshMello

Benchwarmer
I'm sorry bro, but this thread is a giant load of shit. Get a coach in here that knows something about DEFENSE too. We have the talent on this team, with hopefully more on the way next year. NO WAY we do anything in the playoffs with a coach that only cares about scoring.

Yes. Offense is important, but defense wins championships.
 
How you can say "we'll never compete under MDA"; even after...

MDA led his PHX teams (in a much deeper Western Conf, especially when comparted to the East of now or even near future) during 4 consecutive trips to the playoffs with 54+ W's (two years of 60+).

We all know SA had MDA's #; but please explain how he "failed to compete" when...

A) MDA's teams defeated, & eliminated a dynasty Lakers franchise led by Kobe; the greatest thing since MJ not only once: But during back to back playoff series in consecutive seasons. Dominated Kobe & LA 4-1 & came up clutch during a game 7 (do or die/win or go home) type of pressure situation. Not competing?

B) Split between 2 playoff series (1-1) against Cuban, Dirk & the Mavs. Both series ended 4-2 (PHX/DAL) & both teams split the 12 games even 6-6. Competing yet?

C) Swept the up & coming Grizz. Took care of a team he was 'expected' to beat. Not competing yet?

-Eliminated LAC in another pressure game 7. Still not competing?

-Won 5 of those 6 series.

MDA competed
 
@ Melo... Please back up your "claims" of proof that MDA will not have this Knicks team competing during the playoffs or failing "to do anything".

Don't use his first two years with a cap hell Knicks roster "as proof" either; because A) MDA started well over 20 starters during the years of turning the entire roster over for... THIS year smart guy. No coach is the league was 'FORCED' to start as many 'DIFFERENT' players and rotations as MDA. Use those 2 years as examples or "proof" all you like; I'd enjoy the comic relief of laughter & B) No coach in the NBA could have ever "done anything" during the regular season or better yet "The Playoffs"...

Please back up those piss poor remarks which is caused by pure hatred for a coach thats yet to have a fighting chance to compete with the Knicks during the playoffs when this is the 1st year, since 04; that MDA or any other coach for that matter is leading the Knicks to the playoffs. How quickly some of you 'forget'.
 
Top