Knicks Summer League 2015

[mafra]

The unheralded W?rzburg Wunderkind

When Dirk was taken with the ninth pick in the 1998 draft, I imagine the most common reaction was "who?" It wasn't uncommon for international players to be taken so highly in the NBA draft, but usually these players (like Tim Duncan) made names for themselves starring on NCAA basketball teams, thus exposing them to NBA teams and audiences. Dirk had never played outside of Germany, which really didn't have a very good basketball league even by European standards. When the Mavericks (technically the Bucks but you know what I mean) picked the awkward, scrawny kid with a terrible haircut one spot ahead of Kansas star Paul Pierce, it's hardly surprising that most of the national media assumed the pick was a big reach.

Dirk ended up starting in about half of the games in his lockout-shortened rookie season, including the first one. However, he was awkward, timid and played so little defense even his teammates were calling him "Irk." In the only season of his career where he played fewer than 30 minutes a game and averaged single digit points per game, "rookie Dirk" certainly played into the narrative that he was, at best, completely unprepared for NBA competition and, at worst, destined to be a huge bust. But oh, how that would change -- and quickly.

Dirk and the Mavs grow up together, but fail to shed the "soft" label

Something changed after that first season, though it took a few years for the narrative to catch up. A lot of people thought Nellieball was gimmicky, but it really played to the strengths of the Mavs' Dirty, Nasty and Filthy triumvirate. Dirk, Nash and Finley could SCORE POINTS. While it was awesome to watch -- and Dirk certainly got a lot of recognition once he showed he could shoot from all over the court -- this sort of play did nothing to help alleviate the "soft" epitaph that would plague Dirk through most of his career.

Still, Dirk didn't take long to prove why it was the Mavs gambled on him in the '98 draft. In 2001, Dirk made the All-NBA third team, and the Mavs made the playoffs for the first time since 1990. In the next few years, Dirk was the keystone as the Mavericks went from laughing stock to contender.

Nash left and Finley declined, but Dirk just kept getting better. Dirk was always an underrated rebounder, but during the early aughts it really felt like Dirk was trying to fight against the narrative, putting on some muscle and really working on his defense. Yet he still couldn't shed the soft label. At the time, it felt like Dirk was widely regarded as one of the best scorers in the league but lacked the intangibles or all-around game to carry his team to the promised land. The travesty that was to occur in the '06 Finals would only "confirm" this belief in the minds of many.

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2014/4...las-mavericks-narrative-career-developed-1998

 

[mafra]

When asked howhe handled his nerves in his debut, Porzingis said quickly: “I told myself tochill out.”




His English isamazingly sharp and he carries himself well. Basically, he gets it, even at avery young age. of course, there’s still the big question: Can he play?




Well, thatwon’t be known in summer league, which should be taken for what it’s worth. Still,after four days in Vegas, he hasn’t backed down. He’s built like a Twizzler butisn’t afraid to mix it up. He goes in traffic with the ball and also after theball for rebounds. He has challenged players at the rim and is showing a knackfor blocking shots. Again, Summer League is all about learning if the playerhas the basics to survive in the NBA, and Porzingis is showing that.





The maindrawback for Porzingis is his lack of strength. He’ll get easily boxed out forrebounds when the real games begin. And his dribble game is merely adequate.




The Knicks weresmitten by his height, his athletic ability and his jumper, and so far have noreason to be disappointed. Porzingis has the shooting range to stretchdefenses. He can be very useful in the pick-and-pop (assuming his body canwithstand the pick part) and can be dangerous behind the 3-point line. And hegets to the free-throw line. Again, this is Summer League, and Porzingis is awork in progress. but the more you watch, the more you get the feeling that PhilJackson didn’t draft the next Andrea Bargnani.




“He’s reallyinteresting to watch and his growth is going to be interesting to see,” saidJackson. “It looks like he can hold his own out there. I think he’s going tofind a comfort zone.”




OK, here’s theissue: Should Jackson have taken someone else, say EmmanualMudiay, at No. 4? Willie Cauley-Stein? Both are alsoproducing in Vegas and would’ve filled a need for the Knicks, who needeverything.




Well, pointguards aren’t too hard to find, so it’s understandable why Jackson decided togamble on a 7-3 shooter instead of Mudiay (besides, Jackson took Notre Damepoint guard Jerian Grant later in the first round). Cauley-Stein,meanwhile, is every bit the project as Porzingis, although more offensively-challenged.




For the timebeing, the Knicks are looking rather smart and Porzingis is looking rathercomfortable. For a player who didn’t get the shine of the NCAA tournament, he’spretty popular in Vegas, and this reception will be nothing compared to whatawaits in New York.



“I love the attention,” he said.




See? He fits.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2015/07/14/attention-loving-porzingis-made-for-new-york-city/?ls=iref:nbahpt13a





http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2015/07/12/20150711-first-impressions-porzingis.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt13a

 

[Broadway]

ahhhh the days when Walsh gave Gallo videos of Bird to study because he reminded him of him. The days when Dirk said Gallo was a better player than him at similar ages in their career. Not hating on Gallo just trying to prove a point...

Trying to assert greatness onto an unproven talent doesn't make them great

Phil could have drafted Kaminsky, Winslow, Hezonja and the narratives of what #kporzee would soon become would be an afterthought and we'd be auto successing.....Kaminsky instead to Dirk.....Winslow to Kawhi beyond....Hezonja to a souped up Kobe White Mamba.

Wonder why the great Phil didn't see Dirk in #kporzee but instead Pau Gasol

 

[Broadway]

Really good stuff from Towns against the Blazers the other night

 

[mafra]

ahhhh the days when Walsh gave Gallo videos of Bird to study because he reminded him of him. The days when Dirk said Gallo was a better player than him at similar ages in their career. Not hating on Gallo just trying to prove a point...

Trying to assert greatness onto an unproven talent doesn't make them great

Phil could have drafted Kaminsky, Winslow, Hezonja and the narratives of what #kporzee would soon become would be an afterthought and we'd be auto successing.....Kaminsky instead to Dirk.....Winslow to Kawhi beyond....Hezonja to a souped up Kobe White Mamba.

Wonder why the great Phil didn't see Dirk in #kporzee but instead Pau Gasol

"Trying to assert greatness onto an unproven talent doesn't make them great"

Yeah, well, the inverse is equally applicable: Trying to label a pick underwhelming/overrated doesn't make it so either...

For the record... I posted this in the 2015 draft thread b4 the draft lottery:

"I believe this will be the 20th draft conducted under the current format. Only twice has the team with the worst record "won" the 1 pick ...

I think there are 5 "difference makers" -- Okafor, Towns, Russell, Mudiay, Porzingis

then a bunch of possible "stars" - Stanley Johnson, Cauley-Stein, Herzonja +???"

So, there's no way you an accuse me of hyping PORZ solely b/c I'm drinking the PJ Kool Aid. You said yourself that you would take Okafor over Towns... and you would opt to trade down (which infers you liked a Grant + a vet player over Mudiay).

BEFORE we even starting talking PORZ, or b4 most even heard of him, I posted how I thought the kid was 1 of 5 potential franchise players... ERGO, while I preferred we take the safer Mudaiy... I have every right to buy into the post draft hype - b/c I'm on record beforehand. And, since we scooped up GRant... I'm fine w/the decision & ACCEPT THE RISK.

Be thankful LA jumped us and are stuck with DR.

 

[Broadway]

Mafra I said I'd take Okafor early on. According to how I thought the draft would go after knowing we were picking 4th I said gun to head(exception of Okafor falling to us).....I was becoming more and more intrigued with Mudiay

Then fine tuned with clarity take Mudiay or trade down(Grant was one of those early targets along with Kaminsky and stated again when I was posting workout videos).

Finally said if taking a chance.... Mudiay small whisper for Hezonja have to be the picks. I said I liked what I saw in Porzingis workouts but wouldn't go beyond that. I said I think most teams would be scared of taking him because of his build and that he's a project. He's exactly that.

I was maybe the loudest voice here, on how deep this draft is gonna be. I don't think anyone is throwing bust or will not be good quotes towards #kporzee. Most are saying they doubt he'll be the best from this class, those who oppose the potential ceiling.

One again you started a separate thread "Thinking WCS Should Be The Pick" straight up @ 4....Melol!

You drunk the Charlie Rosen theory Phil was looking to pair Monroe and WCS together. You have clearly set a pattern of backing whatever you thought the franchise was going to do and what we ended up doing. So yes you have lots of Kool-Aid drunkenness in you.


The biggest difference here is...no one is witch hunting #kporzee or scouring the web for signs he could be a bust. No one is posting to ad nauseum with articles on other prospects and what HOF they're destined to become. Meanwhile the Mafra Jones Crusade for #kporzee's greatness may be the strongest I've seen in basketball forum history.

 

[tiger0330]

Be thankful LA jumped us and are stuck with DR.

Amen, he's looking like nothing special. Doesn't have the athleticism of Westbrook nor the blazing speed of Wall and with summer league almost over you have to question if he can pass or shoot.

 

[mafra]

Mafra I said I'd take Okafor early on. According to how I thought the draft would go after knowing we were pickimg 4th I said gun to head(exception of Okafor falling to us).....I was becoming more and more intrigued with Mudiay

Then fine tuned with clarity take Mudiay or trade down(Grant was one of those early targets along with Kaminsky and stated again when I was posting workout videos).

Finally said if taking a chance.... Mudiay small whisper for Hezonja have to be the picks. I said I liked what I saw in Porzingis workouts but wouldn't go beyond that. I said I think most teams would be scared of taking him because of his build and that he's a project. He's exactly that.

I was maybe the loudest voice here, on how deep this draft is gonna be. I don't think anyone is throwing bust or will not be good quotes towards #kporzee. Most are saying they doubt he'll be the best from this class, those who oppose the potential ceiling.

One again you started a separate thread "Thinking WCS Should Be The Pick" straight up @ 4....Melol!

You drunk the Charlie Rosen theory Phil was looking to pair Monroe and WCS together. You have clearly set a pattern of backing whatever you thought the franchise was going to do and what we ended up doing. So yes you have lots of Cool-Aid drunkenness in you.


The biggest difference here is...no one is witch hunting #kporzee or scouring the web for signs he could be a bust. No one is posting to ad nauseum with articles on other prospects and what HOF they're destined to become. Meanwhile the Mafra Jones Crusade for #kporzee's greatness may be the strongest I've seen in basketball forum history.

you're too funny... So, you can fine-tune and alter your thinking... But you only? Oh, I see where you're coming from. Like you, when I saw where NYK was picking... I, too, went back and forth... And, honestly, a case could be made for like 10 players... And, the WCS thread was predicting what direction Phil would go...

Phil has access to so much we bloggers are clueless to... If I had tape, medical, and witnessed WCs and Winslow in person, I imagine I would have more evidence to go on...

mbottom line is I said Porzingis was worthy long b4 the draft and you said you liked Okafor more than towns bc you drank kool aid too

 

[htr10]

ahhhh the days when Walsh gave Gallo videos of Bird to study because he reminded him of him. The days when Dirk said Gallo was a better player than him at similar ages in their career. Not hating on Gallo just trying to prove a point...

Trying to assert greatness onto an unproven talent doesn't make them great

Phil could have drafted Kaminsky, Winslow, Hezonja and the narratives of what #kporzee would soon become would be an afterthought and we'd be auto successing.....Kaminsky instead to Dirk.....Winslow to Kawhi beyond....Hezonja to a souped up Kobe White Mamba.

Wonder why the great Phil didn't see Dirk in #kporzee but instead Pau Gasol

Gallo had a chance to be a very good player, but was derailed by injury. That said, we drafted him because of his relationship to D'Antoni, so that was a farce from day one to an extent.

I don't think there's anything wrong with comparing guys like Kaminsky, Winslow, Hezonja, or Porzingis to past/current greats. Regardless of who you are speaking in that group, they all ended up as top 10 talents in the draft. It's not like you're taking an undrafted rookie and saying he looks like Wilt Chamberlain or Michael Jordan.

I'm going to keep saying this though. People are continuing to doubt Porzingis, but he is a more unique package than any player to come into the league in a long time. His size, his shooting, his personality, a very unique combo. Does that mean he's going to be great? No.

 

[Broadway]

you're too funny... So, you can fine-tune and alter your thinking... But you only? Oh, I see where you're coming from. Like you, when I saw where NYK was picking... I, too, went back and forth... And, honestly, a case could be made for like 10 players... And, the WCS thread was predicting what direction Phil would go...

Phil has access to so much we bloggers are clueless to... If I had tape, medical, and witnessed WCs and Winslow in person, I imagine I would have more evidence to go on...

mbottom line is I said Porzingis was worthy long b4 the draft and you said you liked Okafor more than towns bc you drank kool aid too

Actually Kool-Aid drinker I'm not and never will be. Phil stated in February the pick he'd go with has to be a defensive talent. Well that surely would rule out Okafor at least for the present right? Everyone shifted their thinking coupled with the Kentucky practice scouting that we were picking 1 of Towns/WCS/Lyes either straight up or in trade down fashion. None of these cats ever really registered in my jurisdiction and I'm still not high on any of them, although after watching them play more they have talent. I had Towns rated as a more likely Top talent simply on default alone but never spoke at any great length about his abilities.

I have no problem with anyone tweaking evaluations after you've been able to see more of them and once the draft order became official. But I'll never shape my views based on reads within the organization sorry I have more own mind and like it to work for self as much as possible. If it marries with what we end up doing great, but no a prerequisite or requirement.

I mean shall I go through a list of recent draft picks that were going to be good just because they were Knicks. Let's run down the jibberish since 2008.

Gallo=Bird
Jordan Hill=Amare Lite
Landry Fields=New Doug Christie
Rautins=Reddick
Shumpert=Penny Hardaway Lite with defense
THJr=Jamal Crawford Lite


I mean none of these have been what fans advertised them as, not really even close. I think if anything we should have learned our lessons by now and be cautious with aspirations.

 

[mafra]

Broadway... I get that you're prone to cliches and hyperbole... But either you take yourself too seriously or you need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills. For example, when I post a thread predicting who I think Phil will draft... That doesn't mean that's the guy I would pick. When I post article after article on Porz, it's not bc I am hyping him... Just refuting what people are saying, that claims the pick was a reach... Kid is well thought of, and I said he was a top 5 talent long before we took him... Who really cares what you or I think? What makes you think you re even remotely qualified? And, if you are about to answer, stop... Just proves you are full of yourself. We base stuff in what we see and read... I don't consider what Phil or Mills or anyone from NYk say... I just go by the general consensus... Did you fly to Dallas or china and watch Mudiay play? Come on, and lighten up... Nobody thought rautins or hill were players. Lol.

comparisons are made all the time... Par for the course... It's not fair but done bc analogies hint to what some project... I like Porz based on the individual... His makeup, talent, size, potential. I realize the risk... But don't feel we reached. I said as much b4 we took him and a since I root for NYK I will hope the kid succeeds.

 

[jimkcchief88]

Eye tests? LOL. Zinger looks better than Russell...

Professionals, who are paid b/c of their trained eyes, are all impressed by what they've seen so far from PORZ. He is tough, willing to bang inside, has great defensive instincts, can pass, shoot, score off the dribble... He certainly held his own vs Okafor.

PORZ also had 3 years of pro tape/experience to rely on... maybe that was what made the pick safer/easier, b/c Mudaiy had a few games in China as his highlight reel. Sometimes the eye test is misleading - don't believe everything you see... Sometimes perspective is looking thru a funhouse mirror. BTW... "Glen Rice, Jr. of the Washington Wizards was unanimously named Most Valuable Player of the Samsung NBA Summer League 2014."

NYK targeted Grant as the PG they wanted. PORZ-GRANT was what they wanted over Mudiay-Lyles.

Arguing this point is a fool's errand. Answer wont be clear for 3-5 years; definitely not resolved after 1 season, or 3 SL games. As a NYK fan I am cynical too... We probably did draft the wrong duo... Maybe Ndour will be only kid from this draft class still on the team in 4 yeas... Then again, I would think the same thing had we taken Mudiay... If we did, we probably guaranteed PORZ would be better than Dirk.

Still, if Porz is up there with Dirk/Gasol in 3 years... I don't care if Mudiay is D-Rose.

My point exactly. The Fakers are looking just as dumb as us for reaching instead of grabbing a "safer pick". Let's make the comparisons shall we: Two formerly proud organizations with BAD owners that are dumb. Two franchises whose team presidents exemplify the Peter principle and have risen to thier own incompetence. And the Dirk comparisons, just give it up. For every "Dirk" there are a hundred Bargiani's. The KNIcKs participation in the NBA's "affirmative action" program freakin sickens me and the Gallo/Calderones/Bargiani's of the world are why this team had the worse record in franchise history. Dwell on that for a moment. And this is not an expansion team either. You can have your 3-5 years( while PJAx sits in his rocking chair counting his chips and rings because of MJ/Pippen/Kobe/Shaq. Some of us in KNIcKs nation are tired of waiting on Chief

 

[htr10]

Other than a continued opportunity to complain or possibly Emmanuel Mudiay, I'm not sure what the unhappy people in this thread are saying they want from this team right now. Still not sure what Winslow, WCS, Kaminsky, or anyone else taken after Porzingis, other than Mudiay, has done to have gotten people so excited one week into Summer League play.

 

[htr10]

I'm glad we got 3 entertaining Summer League games in first because we look terrible in this 4th game.

 

[Broadway]

Everyone looks awful today.... including #kporzee and Grant. MacAdoo looks great, Warriors might wanna give him clock if Speights gets fat and satisfied.

 

[Broadway]

Other than a continued opportunity to complain or possibly Emmanuel Mudiay, I'm not sure what the unhappy people in this thread are saying they want from this team right now. Still not sure what Winslow, WCS, Kaminsky, or anyone else taken after Porzingis, other than Mudiay, has done to have gotten people so excited one week into Summer League play.

For the most part I agree but the overselling on Porz can stop now, this much I'm sure you can agree with.

 

[Broadway]

Haha listening to Amundson very funny how he closed his segment on #kporzee saying "A.K.A. I Can't Wait To Get After It With Him In Practice"...

As in it's on kid, school will be in session. Nothing like a Scrub talking like a Scrub! lol @ Phil reuppin this bum

 

[Broadway]

Devin Booker is starting to look more and more like Klay 2.0 let the comparisons keep on rolling. Booker you're gonna be Klay or better consensuses say so.

 

[Broadway]

Grant is trying to redeem himself in the 4th...Man watching Poor Mans Chris Kaman go against Poor Mans Todd McCullough is riveting.

 

[mafra]

Kristaps Porzingis couldn't get his shot to fall during Thursday's blowout loss to the Warriors, scoring 12 points on 3-of-10 shooting, to go with four rebounds, two steals, one 3-pointer, one assist, one block and one turnover over 24 minutes.
As a positive, Porzingis did get to the line where he knocked down 5-of-6 of his attempts, but his frail frame remains an issue. There's no denying that he has a beautiful stroke, but it'll probably be a few years before Porzingis is cranking out fantasy value in standard leagues.

(Rotoworld)