KrisP VS PGE Turow footage

[SSj4Wingzero]

Thanks, Broadway

@ SSJ4Wingzero, I’ve heard tons of Analyists thought the same thing about Gallo, *wink*


I’m going off of what was available to watch as far as his game is concern. I don’t rely on Euro-league footage when stating my opinions, because this is not the EL. You were hoping and putting faith in the pick without having much insight and footage of his game. I don’t do that. There was nothing serious to view of him…not until recently. I can think for myself when viewing someone’s game. Only a moron will believe and regurgitate someone else’s opinion, and put blind faith in what he cannot analysis for himself. Plus they have a tendency to over react, get frustrated, and try to offend/insult others when they can’t really support their own argument with details. Maybe if they actually did their own investigation instead of going off of what others have to say on the subject…the outcome would be more in their favor. This is the case we face here.


Yes I’m watching the summer league games…not just Knick games. Are you seeing what the guys I’ve mentioned are doing in SL? I doubt it, simply because they are all playing well, some even better than Porzingis.


What is Porzingis doing better than the other guys I mentioned? Post those opinions now…don’t wait for another game to be played, cross your fingers, and then come back here to respond. IMO, from what I see NOW. He has the height. A long thin frame and should get us at least 2 blocks a game (like Stein).


Stein’s numbers/stats are just about the same as Porzingis, but Stein’s a much better defender with clear offensive potential. Oubre is having a great SL and Deven Booker had 18 and 6 rebounds last night. Are you watching the SL games or just Knick games? What did the zinger have last night?


We need to run plays for zinger? Well, how about he finds his way in the post (like a big man) instead of the outside (like a little man). Were we running plays for the other guys? Kristop is better fitted to play down low but I fear his body isn’t ready to commit to that just yet. The triangle will make him a useless player if he can’t drain his shots. I want to see more post play from him on both sides of the court. I’m not totally convinced, but the kid did put a lil smile on my face.


Porzingis has potential; I already said I like his jumpshot, his hook shot, and his desire to take it to the rack. I already said I like his footwork and arms span for defensive purposes. And, I don’t think he’s timid at all, just that his frame may not be able to keep up with his desire to bang down low. This is also a trash talking league, his wit and focus will be tested. Will he get suckered into playing physical, or will he keep the thin frame, upgrade to a finesse player and let his game do the talking for him.


So far, Grant and Ndour are the real highlights of the Knicks summer league. Kristops is playing ok, If he can keep his long arms extended without picking up fouls I’m happy. The real completion starts in preseason…when your strengths and weaknesses are exposed. I want to see how he enforces his game and will on others, and if he can adapt when players figure him out? This is what the jury wants to know.

Since when was I putting faith in the pick without having insight or footage of his game?

First of all, I'm pretty sure most NBA execs know more than you do.

Second of all, you need to stop comparing him to Gallo. For that matter, Gallo was not a bad pick at #6. He's an NBA-level starter, which is more than anybody expect him to be during the draft - pretty sure he was booed out of the WaMu theater.

Third of all, there's been enough seen of his game that we all know enough about it. He's thin, but has good instincts, and appears to have a good work ethic. He knows how to use his length. He can shoot from the outside. Very few big men have NBA-ready post games. If anything, Porzingis has shown more than anybody has expected, seeing as how our worst fear (that he was soft like Bargnani and scared of contact in the paint) has not come true, and in fact he's shown the opposite of that.

And you need to stop talking about somebody fitting with Melo because Melo is a second-tier star in this league who is not going to lead this team to a championship. Kristaps Porzingis is much more important to our franchise's future than Melo is. Melo is probably going to ask for a trade mid-season, and with him gone, we can actually build a team, since Melo is not a championship-caliber star. He'd be a great second scoring option (like he is in the Olympics), but there's no way we could get a better player than him. Unfortunately, if he's the best we've got, then we're not winning.

 

[Real NY Baller]

I'm totally following you although you and I would probably pick different paths vs other fans when coming to a fork in the road. You bring up such an interesting dynamic reflecting on past, observing the present, and projecting to the future.

If we take out the fact Melo has an ugly conditional contract situation.....do you honestly see the triangle system taking his game to another level? Most Knick fans still feel he's the best "pure scorer"<------Melol(never have understood what the means)...so you could say Phil has an elite level talent in a trumped up successful system that you feel is outdated(I do too, to an extent). If he's won in the past with elite level talent exclusively but the system isn't proving to make Melo any more lethal than he's been in the past, then we have 1 of 2 if not both cruxes not working in our favor.

1- Melo really isn't ELITE(he's not)

and/or

2- The system truly only had so much value to begin with(debatable)


I'm not one seeing how the players we have currently "Work with Melo" and I want players who'll work well aside from Melo and system. Here's what we do know the media recently held interviews with Phil about the current parts added to the team, and they've come to the conclusion the pieces have been added to complement Melo's game. Not what I want to see as a fan, but I guess for the sake of any possibility of success it might work. Since we know Melo isn't Elite then we have to default to the next best option....which at this point has to be #kporzee.

The Triangle system has only worked with Elite level players(players who proved to be head an shoulders better than their counterparts-contemporaries GOATS). Therefore #kporzee once again, has to be as Clarence Gaines told Phil "A Once In A Lifetime" talent to select. I don't see this in his game personally, I do see a pretty good talent, but not that.

Needless to say Ian Begley and others in the media have been tracking the current functions of the Triangle and they are noticing more and more tweaking incorporating other stuff during SL.

They feel in large it may have to do with the talent on our team, #kporzee factoring greatly. I have no problem if adjustments are being made(I welcome it) say we went from 100% triangle centric to an 80-20 split. It still irks me Phil couldn't come to grips with fully adjusting for other prospects if change was welcomed. In the end it comes back to Triangle and #kporzee being incredibly special.


Please continue to post more, the board needs it.

Idk, Broadway?at the moment it?s hard to tell.



From my perspective? Carmelo is an all star. But, he lacks leadership qualities. He can score with the best of them, he doesn?t get enough credit for his passing and rebounding, and when he wants to?he can actually play some decent defense. His main problem (imo) is getting his team mates involved. He seems to be a lil immature in some aspects? as he often lets the refs and the insipid play of team mates get to him. When he misses shots he also becomes distracted and dispassionate when no one else can pick up the slack.
IMO, He?ll have better success when he puts his team first instead of his stats. He needs to bring out the best in his team, motivate them with hustling and diving for loose balls. When your team sees you out there busting your ass?they will step up their game?in the least play harder. Your team mates can?t really get into the game when most of the plays have melo on the wing for about 10 or more seconds trying to back someone down, then decides to shoot a fade away jumper. Teammates can?t do anything but try to bring their man out of the paint, then they become cold due to not being able to touch the rock enough and watching melo slow down the pace.

When Mello learns how to get his teammates playing hard, get teammates enough touches and encouragement, get teammates to peak their potential instead of deferring to watching the C.Antony show?only then will he?ll be playing in the post season regularly. Eventually he will figure this out.


I?m expecting Mello to make those adjustments this year. When you?re hanging out with elite ball players, sipping champagne on yachts?you will learn some leadership and pick up good bball habits/tips. His hunger will turn into starvation because his pals will definitely be flashing their blinging championship rings in his face. Carmelo is in a good position to excel; he's seasoned, getting hungrier and wiser with age. He gives us the best chance at winning (considering what?s available). If he signed on for a few more years, we need to get pieces that will compliment his abilities? not stagnate them.



Melo loves to play from the post and wings, so we need to have a big that can rebound instead of hanging around the perimeter. Is Porzingis that dude? IDK. Mello needs pass first guards that can pick and roll and shoot the J. in order to free up space for others to contribute accordingly. We need to get forwards/centers that can bang/cut/slash/put the opposition in foul trouble...not shoot the 3ball.
Melo can facilitate from his iso game very well?he hardly had the counterparts that knew how to play off of him. I?m thinking we will see a hugh improvement in his leadership qualities, but you are only as good as your weakest link. If he can address, secure, uplift his most inept colleagues?he?ll improve their game, his own game and the team. He?ll get it soon enough. I just want melo to have that opportunity to win now?not wait a few years from now. Personally, I?m tired of playing the waiting game, tired of spending big bank on game tickets just to see dudes playing like their on the blacktops. To be clear...if Mello wasn't on this team I wouldn't be speaking about him at all. But we have to make the best out of what we have.

 

[Real NY Baller]

@ SSJ4Wingzero...

"Since when was I putting faith in the pick without having insight or footage of his game?"



You?re citing what you were hearing from others; you admitted this several times, most recently when saying things like ?I'm pretty sure most NBA execs know more than you do?.


Maybe, maybe not?but where were you getting your information from? Where were you getting your footage of this guy from? The EL? The footage within this thread is uninspiring. It?s hard for me to get excited when the only noticeable player was a former low quality Knick player that got his knees buckled when Carmelo punched him in the mouth.

'Second of all, you need to stop comparing him to Gallo. For that matter, Gallo was not a bad pick at #6. He's an NBA-level starter, which is more than anybody expect him to be during the draft - pretty sure he was booed out of the WaMu theater."



He was Booed just like Porzingis was booed, i wonder why? I?m really not comparing Galo to Porzingis?just trying to point out how you, and your ?NBA execs and analysts? used to talk about Galo in the same fashion. People were comparing him to Dirk, saying he will be better than Melo, probably has the highest ceiling in the draft, and will be an all star in less than 2years. I?m sure my posting history will reveal a lot of this.


"Third of all, there's been enough seen of his game that we all know enough about it. He's thin, but has good instincts, and appears to have a good work ethic. He knows how to use his length. He can shoot from the outside. Very few big men have NBA-ready post games. If anything, Porzingis has shown more than anybody has expected, seeing as how our worst fear (that he was soft like Bargnani and scared of contact in the paint) has not come true, and in fact he's shown the opposite of that."



This I can agree on, but to a stint. I?ve even pointed that out in my previous posts. Except most of this was only truly realized a few days ago, please don?t act like you or any of us here knew about him, his game, his potential?or else you, or someone else here would have pointed it out. Not wait and see? then pretend to have known all along. That ain?t going to work with me.

"And you need to stop talking about somebody fitting with Melo because Melo is a second-tier star in this league who is not going to lead this team to a championship. Kristaps Porzingis is much more important to our franchise's future than Melo is. Melo is probably going to ask for a trade mid-season, and with him gone, we can actually build a team, since Melo is not a championship-caliber star. He'd be a great second scoring option (like he is in the Olympics), but there's no way we could get a better player than him. Unfortunately, if he's the best we've got, then we're not winning."


Why do I need to stop talking about having players fit in with the very best player on our team? You can't be serious. I go with what is working for us, the best thing we have and build around that. It baffles me that you would think Kristops is more important to our future than melo is?even after seeing his advanced skill set and knowing that he just signed a hugh contract. With all the pressure and high expectations placed on a young player that clearly needs to develop? you somehow have this amazing ability to predict his future. Where did you get your crystal ball from? Is it the same one you used during the gallo years? If not?I want one of those things too, asap!!


Melo just needs to place more faith in the people playing along side of him. But first he needs to have players (with obvious skill sets) that will play with the same hunger and confidence in order for him to place trust in them. I?ve seen him maturing throughout the years. Could he do that faster? Perhaps, but another scorer will definitely alleviate the pressure and relinquish certain task.


We tanked, got rid of players to get in a position to make a run (with Melo)?not make a run with Porzingis a few years from now. C?mon mayne! Do you really think Melo, and the season ticket holders wanted to hear that?after all we?ve done to get to this off season? We were rewarded with a prospect with an uncertain future as oppose to getting pieces we can easily imagine him playing well with now? Can you not see the players I?ve mentioned playing well with him now? Do you not see how some of them are playing better then Kristops is currently playing now?

SL doesn?t tell us very much about rookies ?but they do give you a hint of what?s to be expected. I?m expecting a whole lot more? especially when we have been waiting decades just to make it to the post season. In no way am I killing Kristops, just stating the obvious.

All that said, melo could be a jerk and gallo could be someone I would toss back a few brews with?but I don?t care about their lifestyles or unimportant characteristics?I care more about their game and how well they play with others. I play this game. And when I?m plucking down a few Benjamin?s to get a good seat at the Garden I?m expecting to see a team that will try to be in the playoffs. I?m not paying a damn thing to a franchise that gives you false hope, re-nigs on their word, and play just for sport and development. Save that crap for the D-league and put a product on the floor that the Mecca/this BBAll city can relate to. Come pre-season I'll give a more in depth analysts of our players, and the team. As of now... we can only speculate and hate. I'm not really in to that...

 

[mafra]

While many New York Knicks fans were critical, to say the least, of the organization's decision to pick Latvian big man Kristaps Porzingis, one hall of fame legend isn't as critical. In fact he sees potential in the 19-year-old. Serious potential. In fact, Los Angeles Lakers legend James Worthy compared him to two of the league's current best players.

After seeing Porzingis' summer league debut against the San Antonio Spurs (in which he scored 12 points and recorded two blocks in a total of 18 minutes), Worthy, paid a high compliment of the Knicks rookie during the Lakers' summer league broadcast. He called him "combination of Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Durant." He added that Pozingis was a "good pick for the Knicks.’’

http://behindthearc.collectivepress...itzki-and-kevin-durant/?s=behindthearc_xpromo

 

[mafra]

When asked how he handled his nerves in his debut, Porzingis said quickly: “I told myself to chill out.”


His English is amazingly sharp and he carries himself well. Basically, he gets it, even at a very young age. of course, there’s still the big question: Can he play?


Well, that won’t be known in summer league, which should be taken for what it’s worth. Still, after four days in Vegas, he hasn’t backed down. He’s built like a Twizzler but isn’t afraid to mix it up. He goes in traffic with the ball and also after the ball for rebounds. He has challenged players at the rim and is showing a knack for blocking shots. Again, Summer League is all about learning if the player has the basics to survive in the NBA, and Porzingis is showing that.



The main drawback for Porzingis is his lack of strength. He’ll get easily boxed out for rebounds when the real games begin. And his dribble game is merely adequate.


The Knicks were smitten by his height, his athletic ability and his jumper, and so far have no reason to be disappointed. Porzingis has the shooting range to stretch defenses. He can be very useful in the pick-and-pop (assuming his body can withstand the pick part) and can be dangerous behind the 3-point line. And he gets to the free-throw line. Again, this is Summer League, and Porzingis is a work in progress. but the more you watch, the more you get the feeling that Phil Jackson didn’t draft the next Andrea Bargnani.


“He’s really interesting to watch and his growth is going to be interesting to see,” said Jackson. “It looks like he can hold his own out there. I think he’s going to find a comfort zone.”


OK, here’s the issue: Should Jackson have taken someone else, say Emmanual Mudiay, at No. 4? Willie Cauley-Stein? Both are also producing in Vegas and would’ve filled a need for the Knicks, who need everything.


Well, point guards aren’t too hard to find, so it’s understandable why Jackson decided to gamble on a 7-3 shooter instead of Mudiay (besides, Jackson took Notre Dame point guard Jerian Grant later in the first round). Cauley-Stein, meanwhile, is every bit the project as Porzingis, although more offensively-challenged.


For the time being, the Knicks are looking rather smart and Porzingis is looking rather comfortable. For a player who didn’t get the shine of the NCAA tournament, he’s pretty popular in Vegas, and this reception will be nothing compared to what awaits in New York.

“I love the attention,” he said.


See? He fits.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2015/...gis-made-for-new-york-city/?ls=iref:nbahpt13a

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/n...-impressions-porzingis.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt13a

 

[Real NY Baller]

Not everyone thinks the same way?at least not yet.


http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/06/18/mitnick-kristaps-porzingis-is-not-a-top-five-pick/



Even Carmello was upset over the pick.


Is Steven A Smith not a worthy analyst? I?m sure we all heard what he had to say a couple of weeks ago. Or are we just picking and choosing favorites here? yeah, i think so.


I can post ?comments of praise ? about the players I?ve mentioned too. But what is that really going to prove? Besides, it's really not that hard of a Goggle search.


Anyone with enough passion for this game will most likely be able to form educated opinions of the game. My 12 year old cousin plays ball all the time. I remember him telling me that Golden state will win in game six and that Iggy or Green will be the MVP, not the ?splash brothers?. This was a little after the allstar break. To go further?Steve Kerr took a ride on the backs of the Warriors (Mark Jackson?s team) and couldn?t adjust to winning until his assistant coach "assistant" suggested the obvious thing to do. But real fans and people that watch this game already knew it was their time to win before Kerr signed on?just about any coach could have won with that stacked team.


My point (in case you missed it)?there are players, coaches, owners, analysts, and fans that will be on either side of ignorance or awareness. We all have our opinions; the game isn?t that hard to scope out with your own eyes?and so I used them to examine abilities, as well as opinions. Let?s just hope he hears those boooos?and the lack of support and will use it to motivate him. As I said...He's only getting the benefit of the doubt right now, I'm watching, but I'm not one of those dudes that's going to be salivating and jocking hard just because there's a new "kock" in town. We will see soon enough just how this all pans out....I can only wish for the best.

 

[mafra]

Can't argue with that...

 

[SSj4Wingzero]

Phil Jackson might have made some dumb moves such as the Tyson Chandler trade, but the Porzingis pick was an example of him looking to the future rather than looking for a quick fix. Screw Carmelo. We're not winning a title with him, so why should we care about who fits best with him? **** that. The franchise's long-term future is much more important than Carmelo, since he's only here for the next 3 years and we're not winning anything in that timeframe anyway. We won 17 games last year and you want to talk about finding pieces that give us the best change to win now? Really? We're not winning now. We're not a good team. Phil gave us enough to maybe post a decent record and lure a big-name free agent in 2016, but he also has to look towards the future, and if Porzingis is the pick with the highest ceiling, then he's the right pick to make.

Hopefully he pans out so we can win a title after Melo finally leaves NY, since there's no way Melo will be a good player by the time Porzingis is ready to contribute

 

[mafra]

Phil Jackson might have made some dumb moves such as the Tyson Chandler trade, but the Porzingis pick was an example of him looking to the future rather than looking for a quick fix. Screw Carmelo. We're not winning a title with him, so why should we care about who fits best with him? **** that. The franchise's long-term future is much more important than Carmelo, since he's only here for the next 3 years and we're not winning anything in that timeframe anyway. We won 17 games last year and you want to talk about finding pieces that give us the best change to win now? Really? We're not winning now. We're not a good team. Phil gave us enough to maybe post a decent record and lure a big-name free agent in 2016, but he also has to look towards the future, and if Porzingis is the pick with the highest ceiling, then he's the right pick to make.

Hopefully he pans out so we can win a title after Melo finally leaves NY, since there's no way Melo will be a good player by the time Porzingis is ready to contribute

B-I-N-G-O !!!

Nothing would have bothered me more if we repeated the mistakes of the past. Iwould have led a mob to MSG if PHIL admitted the put short-term ahead oflong-term.. If we admitted that we traded down to draft who they felt was alesser (lower ceiling) prospect solely b/c it increased odds of winning now...while passing on a prospect they felt would be special down the road... squanderingthis rare opportunity... I would be upset.

They drafted (of the guys left) who they felt would have the best career... bethe best in 5 years... right/wrong... the intentions are o be celebrated... wedidn't trade the pick for an A-McDice... or trade down for a Marc Jax (and passon Pippen or a Reggie).

Like Nash or Finley on DL when Dirk arrived... we can only hope that is what'Melo is

 

[SSj4Wingzero]

B-I-N-G-O !!!

Nothing would have bothered me more if we repeated the mistakes of the past. Iwould have led a mob to MSG if PHIL admitted the put short-term ahead oflong-term.. If we admitted that we traded down to draft who they felt was alesser (lower ceiling) prospect solely b/c it increased odds of winning now...while passing on a prospect they felt would be special down the road... squanderingthis rare opportunity... I would be upset.

They drafted (of the guys left) who they felt would have the best career... bethe best in 5 years... right/wrong... the intentions are o be celebrated... wedidn't trade the pick for an A-McDice... or trade down for a Marc Jax (and passon Pippen or a Reggie).

Like Nash or Finley on DL when Dirk arrived... we can only hope that is what'Melo is

A typical Knicks move would've been to trade down in the draft and get a guy like Eric Bledsoe or Ty Lawson.

While I'd love to have those guys on the Knicks...let's be honest. Look at the top-tier franchises in the NBA right now. How many of them have ever won a title by trading away their entire future? The 2007-08 Celtics are an exception, but they were able to do so because they already had one HOF player on the roster and were able to get TWO MORE of them since they had tons of assets.

We, on the other hand, have no assets. Trading the pick for Bledsoe would've given us a decent, but not amazing player, which, combined with Melo, probably would've made us a 42-win team. Now if Jackson makes a bunch of the similar signings he did during the off-season like Lopez and Afflalo, maybe we become a 50-win team. Good enough for the playoffs? Yeah. Conference Finals? Probably not. Finals? Hell no.

It'd be a different story if we were able to trade for a legit superstar, but Eric Bledsoe...is not one.

 

[Real NY Baller]

smh...


You keep saying high ceiling…where is this ceiling situated…in the basement? From what all of us have seen so far…I’m wondering how can you see his ceiling (clearly), but think the other players I’ve mentioned have lower ones than his…even when they are clearly showing signs of being NBA ready, hitting their shots, banging boards, playing defense, putting up more promising stats and highlights than Kristops? This is SL, where rookies are playing against other rookies. If he’s struggling now…imagine what’s to come. What is giving you this sense of optimism? Is it because you like his hair cut or something?


Investing in the future with someone that can’t stay on the court because of his size and conditioning is just not my idea of a sound investment. If you want to invest in the future, fine. But do so when you don’t have any value on your current roster. If your future plans don’t involve your recently signed max contract player…why in the hell didn’t you make some sought of sign and trade deal for players that supposedly fit your plans? This is bass Ackward thinking. You don’t sign a player to a Hugh contract (for short term services) and not try to utilize his skills/services to the fullest while he’s available to the team NOW. You don’t have that same player (and fans) think you will add players to help him make a run in the playoffs…then after signing a prospect (that will clearly take time to develop)…have the nerve to tell the fans we are in another re-building mode. That’s not good biz. Carmelo wouldn’t have signed on for that. Fans were not expecting to hear that either, nor were any of the analysts…not until the dirty deed was done.


If you can’t see the obvious flaws in the Zinger that will definitely be a detriment NOW, and if you can’t see how the other players I’ve mentioned are displaying better conditioning, better skill sets, showing more potential and game styles to go along with our franchise player NOW…then you never will.


I’m being extremely fair here, and I’m only speaking on what’s actually being proven in the NOW. I’m not going along with that same ol rebuilding talk that has been going on for so so long. I know we’ve been struggling for decades…but when will some of these Knick fans get tired of this losing mentality?

You see, I (and others) can clearly see the potentials of a winning formula. I just refuse to pretend to be the basketball Nostradamus that often takes wild guests with untested talent. These sought of people have always shown themselves to be false prophets that love to dine on crow sandmitches.

The EL players play weaker competition then college players from the states do…and it shows. But it seems like some people are watching their tel-lie-visions with their eyes wide shut.


The closest star player Melo has ever had the luxury to play with was Amare. And he was hurt, past his prime, and was never the right fit to pair with Carmelo. Melo needs an exceptional guard to pair with his skill set, and a center that can bang the boards and play defense. He can adjust, I’m sure he can get others involve that are actually good enough to get involved. But who did he have? Serious answer that…


Jordan had Pippen, Bryant had Shaq, Duncan had Parker, Magic had Jabar, Drexler had Wallace/ Kersy/ porter, Bird had McHale/ Ainge/ Parrish, Even the “Dream” needed horry/cassell/ and K.smith to win. Labron needed Wade and Bosch…he couldn’t do it without Love and Irving (getting my point yet)? Even Malone needed Stockton to get them to the finals. Most recently the Golden State Warriors needed a deep team to get there.


Without that next piece to compliment your best piece on the team…you will lose all the time.

Where was Melo’s complimentary piece? At some point...He’ll be on a competitive team sooner than later. I only want it to be the knicks because I want to freaking win NOW. Do you like spending big money to see your team lose all the time?


So, as respectfully as I can say it…, **** a fan that rather wish upon a dim star and cast out one of the best players we’ve ever had. If you were playing for this unorganized poorly ran organization…I’m positive that you too will be frustrated with what is being put on the floor with you. Iso melo is a part of his game because he always had to be that way. The best chance he had was in Denver…with Iverson, Billups, and Kenyon…all former star players that made runs in the post season on separate teams…teams that were no longer interested in their services due to the decline in their game. Many ballers want to play with him...it's so unfortunate that the Knicks brass is very poor when it comes to making deals and putting a winning product on the floor. We should just change the teams name from Knicks to the NY re-builders. Pre-season is right around the corner...my eyes are open!

 

[Broadway]

A typical Knicks move would've been to trade down in the draft and get a guy like Eric Bledsoe or Ty Lawson.

While I'd love to have those guys on the Knicks...let's be honest. Look at the top-tier franchises in the NBA right now. How many of them have ever won a title by trading away their entire future? The 2007-08 Celtics are an exception, but they were able to do so because they already had one HOF player on the roster and were able to get TWO MORE of them since they had tons of assets.

We, on the other hand, have no assets. Trading the pick for Bledsoe would've given us a decent, but not amazing player, which, combined with Melo, probably would've made us a 42-win team. Now if Jackson makes a bunch of the similar signings he did during the off-season like Lopez and Afflalo, maybe we become a 50-win team. Good enough for the playoffs? Yeah. Conference Finals? Probably not. Finals? Hell no.

It'd be a different story if we were able to trade for a legit superstar, but Eric Bledsoe...is not one.

Theoretically Phil probably could have got Bledsoe/pick #13 and #16/plus future pick(s)/player by giving up pick 4. That I would have understood, maybe better value overall but not the rumored Bledsoe and #13 for #4

Charlotte was offered 4-6 picks for pick #9....keep that in mind.

 

[SSj4Wingzero]

I'm not sure what this Real NY Baller guy's deal is. He seems to have the need to reply to every single post by writing a huge essay. I'm assuming that he might have a few good points, but I'm too lazy to actually read that huge wall of text. Then again, I doubt it - someone who thinks Willie Cauley-Stein would've been a good pick at #4 is delusional and isn't worth arguing against.

Theoretically Phil probably could have got Bledsoe/pick #13 and #16/plus future pick(s)/player by giving up pick 4. That I would have understood, maybe better value overall but not the rumored Bledsoe and #13 for #4

Charlotte was offered 4-6 picks for pick #9....keep that in mind.

But these picks that were offered to Charlotte - were they actually good ones? Or were they later picks that weren't worth that much? The problem here is that not all first-rounders are created equal. The picks that Charlotte was offered might not have been that good. I'm not sure what type of trade scenarios Phil might have been able to work out, but when you have a high pick in a deep draft and have a chance to selected a player who has even the most remote chance of being a star, the general consensus in the NBA is to not trade it.

 

[Real NY Baller]

typical...

The deal is to be real. What?s the deal with your weak replies laced with lame insults? I?m not here to fight, but you should know by now that I won?t back down from one either.


My posts are just as long as any of the articles dumped in the numerous threads by opinionated analysts. I was doing you a favor by elaborating on certain points that you were failing to realize in my previous essays. I?m sure you read every word but you just couldn?t respond accordingly. Saying you?re too lazy to read it is just your way of showing me more of your ?cop out? skills.


I took a lil time to publish a book for your educational and reading enjoyment ?and instead of acknowledging the facts I?ve took the time to post for you, and instead of considering the clear healthier alternatives I?ve presented in a sensible and respectful manner?you rather ignore them, lick your wounds in public, and keep playing the ignoramus role by saying nonsense like ?Then again, I doubt it - someone who thinks Willie Cauley-Stein would've been a good pick at #4 is delusional and isn't worth arguing against.?

:wtf:


You?re probably right; you are showing signs of being a poor sport?can?t really say debater because you?re not backing up anything?just reciting the newest thing on the wire that fits your beliefs.


Explain to me what ?delusional? means after viewing this link?.http://www.nba.com/kings/blog/cauley-stein-impresses-summer-league

Now take a selfie and place that word within the picture.


You act like I making this stuff up. I?m not hating on Porzingis, nor will I be treating him like a slurpy. You?re the one acting like he?s doing better than the peeps I?ve mentioned? but you?re getting upset with me because you can?t prove it. I?m just stating what?s actually there while you?re stating what?s probable. A big difference!

If you can?t handle the truth, can?t handle the realness, don?t respect cultured opinions on what?s actually being presented ?then don?t respond. Stay in your dream world and continue to sleep walk yourself through these events. You?ll get nothing from me but a strong cup of coffee. Next time I might not be as nice when I?m asking you ?how many lumps do you want??

 

[Broadway]

But these picks that were offered to Charlotte - were they actually good ones? Or were they later picks that weren't worth that much? The problem here is that not all first-rounders are created equal. The picks that Charlotte was offered might not have been that good. I'm not sure what type of trade scenarios Phil might have been able to work out, but when you have a high pick in a deep draft and have a chance to selected a player who has even the most remote chance of being a star, the general consensus in the NBA is to not trade it.

Aside from Real NYK Baller's references of Melo and rebuilding around him, he's speaking on some really good contributor levels here. I agree theoretically that having a chance to get someone special higher up in the draft is really hard to pass on. What I'm refuting is trying to run with the decision made as the one that was the absolute best.....Big Difference. Needless to say Phil was looking for deals to trade down in the 24th hour but supposedly-mystifyingly found nothing worthwhile better than Bledsoe and #13. OTOH Jordan passed on trading with Ainge at slot #9 so it goes to show as you said how value can be esteemed across the league, but it doesn't mean Jordan made the best decision for his franchise either. In the end it could work out for both executives.


Here's what Ainge said about offering picks to crack the Top 10...

http://redsarmy.com/2015/06/26/what-exactly-did-danny-ainge-offer-michael-jordan-for-the-9th-pick/



Now take a look at this motherload of picks the Celtics have...

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Celtics.htm


I know Ainge made reference to a 2019 unprotected 1st in the first link, an asset off in the distance but it's unprotected and it more than likely was coupled with combinations of pick #16, #28, Future picks, Marcus Smart(who was available).


Here's what Ainge said in an ESPN piece after the draft

"We tried hard to trade up," said Ainge, his cell phone ringing repeatedly as he met with reporters around midnight. "We spent the last couple weeks trying to move and, really, today was the only time that we had any indication that we could move up. But we were trying.

"At the end of the day, it’s like Red [Auerbach] used to say, ‘Sometimes the best trades you make are the ones you don’t make.’ Maybe we were going too hard at it. There was a time when I thought, ‘Whoa, this is getting a little out of control.’ We’re putting a lot of eggs in one young player’s basket. So I’m not frustrated. In the long run, maybe it’ll be the best."

That statement above coming from Ainge the king of asset hoarding(who knows how to sell salt to a slug)... means he made a near historic offer to move up. Phil probably could have asked for...

#16, #28, Brooklyn's 2016 1st, Minnesota's 2016 1st, 2019 unprotected 1st, Marcus Smart, Sullinger

for

#4 and THJr-Cleanthony


Just from Ainge alone without any 3rd party involved.

The rumor once again Ainge offered a combination totaling 6picks to Jordan. If you're telling me fans would hedge their bets on such an offer believeing #kporzee and Grant will be better than that, then you're just being silly


Now when you're GM-Pres(Phil) says you're rebuilding and the above is one of the parties you can do business with, then I'd wager we could have struck a deal with them to get what we want/needed, that puts us in as good if not better position there where we're currently at.

And if you say well we have no idea how many of those trillion 1st round picks Ainge owns are gonna pan out down the road....I'll fire back and raise you 1 and say what were some fans saying when we threw our 2016 1st swap pick in the deal to get Bargnani to match Brooklyn's moves 2 yrs ago...?


Let this be a saying to go by in life......."TOMORROW IS GONNA COME." You can live for today but you better darn sure make plans for tomorrow. Denver and Toronto know for a fact this is probably going to be a WIN-WIN season for them no matter how they finish.


The fact we took #kporzee shows to some degree we were willing to wait for a possible better pay off down the road. Yeah #kporzee is a tomorrow's plan to an extent but the problem here no one will be there to grow with him besides a soon to be 23yr old Grant(only 6mos younger than THjr). We needed assets in quantity because any great GM can get good value no matter the spot and/-or flip the assets into something better.

What we've done is what you call botched up rebuilding...obviously starting with the resigning of Melo

 

[Tkf]

@ SSJ4Wingzero...

"Since when was I putting faith in the pick without having insight or footage of his game?"



You?re citing what you were hearing from others; you admitted this several times, most recently when saying things like ?I'm pretty sure most NBA execs know more than you do?.


Maybe, maybe not?but where were you getting your information from? Where were you getting your footage of this guy from? The EL? The footage within this thread is uninspiring. It?s hard for me to get excited when the only noticeable player was a former low quality Knick player that got his knees buckled when Carmelo punched him in the mouth.

'Second of all, you need to stop comparing him to Gallo. For that matter, Gallo was not a bad pick at #6. He's an NBA-level starter, which is more than anybody expect him to be during the draft - pretty sure he was booed out of the WaMu theater."



He was Booed just like Porzingis was booed, i wonder why? I?m really not comparing Galo to Porzingis?just trying to point out how you, and your ?NBA execs and analysts? used to talk about Galo in the same fashion. People were comparing him to Dirk, saying he will be better than Melo, probably has the highest ceiling in the draft, and will be an all star in less than 2years. I?m sure my posting history will reveal a lot of this.


"Third of all, there's been enough seen of his game that we all know enough about it. He's thin, but has good instincts, and appears to have a good work ethic. He knows how to use his length. He can shoot from the outside. Very few big men have NBA-ready post games. If anything, Porzingis has shown more than anybody has expected, seeing as how our worst fear (that he was soft like Bargnani and scared of contact in the paint) has not come true, and in fact he's shown the opposite of that."



This I can agree on, but to a stint. I?ve even pointed that out in my previous posts. Except most of this was only truly realized a few days ago, please don?t act like you or any of us here knew about him, his game, his potential?or else you, or someone else here would have pointed it out. Not wait and see? then pretend to have known all along. That ain?t going to work with me.

"And you need to stop talking about somebody fitting with Melo because Melo is a second-tier star in this league who is not going to lead this team to a championship. Kristaps Porzingis is much more important to our franchise's future than Melo is. Melo is probably going to ask for a trade mid-season, and with him gone, we can actually build a team, since Melo is not a championship-caliber star. He'd be a great second scoring option (like he is in the Olympics), but there's no way we could get a better player than him. Unfortunately, if he's the best we've got, then we're not winning."


Why do I need to stop talking about having players fit in with the very best player on our team? You can't be serious. I go with what is working for us, the best thing we have and build around that. It baffles me that you would think Kristops is more important to our future than melo is?even after seeing his advanced skill set and knowing that he just signed a hugh contract. With all the pressure and high expectations placed on a young player that clearly needs to develop? you somehow have this amazing ability to predict his future. Where did you get your crystal ball from? Is it the same one you used during the gallo years? If not?I want one of those things too, asap!!


Melo just needs to place more faith in the people playing along side of him. But first he needs to have players (with obvious skill sets) that will play with the same hunger and confidence in order for him to place trust in them. I?ve seen him maturing throughout the years. Could he do that faster? Perhaps, but another scorer will definitely alleviate the pressure and relinquish certain task.


We tanked, got rid of players to get in a position to make a run (with Melo)?not make a run with Porzingis a few years from now. C?mon mayne! Do you really think Melo, and the season ticket holders wanted to hear that?after all we?ve done to get to this off season? We were rewarded with a prospect with an uncertain future as oppose to getting pieces we can easily imagine him playing well with now? Can you not see the players I?ve mentioned playing well with him now? Do you not see how some of them are playing better then Kristops is currently playing now?

SL doesn?t tell us very much about rookies ?but they do give you a hint of what?s to be expected. I?m expecting a whole lot more? especially when we have been waiting decades just to make it to the post season. In no way am I killing Kristops, just stating the obvious.

All that said, melo could be a jerk and gallo could be someone I would toss back a few brews with?but I don?t care about their lifestyles or unimportant characteristics?I care more about their game and how well they play with others. I play this game. And when I?m plucking down a few Benjamin?s to get a good seat at the Garden I?m expecting to see a team that will try to be in the playoffs. I?m not paying a damn thing to a franchise that gives you false hope, re-nigs on their word, and play just for sport and development. Save that crap for the D-league and put a product on the floor that the Mecca/this BBAll city can relate to. Come pre-season I'll give a more in depth analysts of our players, and the team. As of now... we can only speculate and hate. I'm not really in to that...

It seems as if you have more of a carmelo angle here... I do think that porzingis is more important to the knicks future than carmelo is. Although I am not as high on him as most here are(porzingis) The knicks future does depend heavily on him being a great player or close to it. and that is for any player the knicks drafted in that #4 spot. The years of trying to build around carmelo should be done. Phil made the mistake of resigning him or maybe he was forced to. But carmelo isn't lebron, or wade or durant, or Davis... I don't know any team that rebuilds around players turning 30, unless that player already has won championships or has shown the ability to lead a team there, recently. In other words you rebuild a 30 year old duncan, lebron or dirk. Not carmelo.

The carmelo experiment has failed here. I am not sure what fans are expecting to get out of trying to build around a one dimensional, no defense playing chucker who is coming off knee surgery and soon to be on the wrong side of 30( for pro ball players).

Melo just needs to place more faith in the people playing along side of him. But first he needs to have players (with obvious skill sets) that will play with the same hunger and confidence in order for him to place trust in them. I?ve seen him maturing throughout the years. Could he do that faster? Perhaps, but another scorer will definitely alleviate the pressure and relinquish certain task.

come on now, enough with that. Carmelo is who he is. I find it odd every time I hear that statement, how about this, why hasn't carmelo adjusted his game? he played with Tyson chandler,who already had a ring, did carmelo not trust him? why should chandler adjust to carmelo who has been a career playoff loser? Amare? he has had more playoff success than carmelo and a career that has been just as good, did carmelo not trust him? the excuses for carmelo are getting old..

now as far as this draft. The signing of carmelo pretty much dictated that the knicks should have picked a player more ready to play now. a guy like kaminski... But again, building around carmelo to me, is a losing propsition. I am not going to say taking porzingis was the best thing to do, if you are building for the future, again I would have explored other options.. ie: trading down...

 

[Tkf]

Aside from Real NYK Baller's references of Melo and rebuilding around him, he's speaking on some really good contributor levels here. I agree theoretically that having a chance to get someone special higher up in the draft is really hard to pass on. What I'm refuting is trying to run with the decision made as the one that was the absolute best.....Big Difference. Needless to say Phil was looking for deals to trade down in the 24th hour but supposedly-mystifyingly found nothing worthwhile better than Bledsoe and #13. OTOH Jordan passed on trading with Ainge at slot #9 so it goes to show as you said how value can be esteemed across the league, but it doesn't mean Jordan made the best decision for his franchise either. In the end it could work out for both executives.


Here's what Ainge said about offering picks to crack the Top 10...

http://redsarmy.com/2015/06/26/what-exactly-did-danny-ainge-offer-michael-jordan-for-the-9th-pick/



Now take a look at this motherload of picks the Celtics have...

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Celtics.htm


I know Ainge made reference to a 2019 unprotected 1st in the first link, an asset off in the distance but it's unprotected and it more than likely was coupled with combinations of pick #16, #28, Future picks, Marcus Smart(who was available).


Here's what Ainge said in an ESPN piece after the draft




That statement above coming from Ainge the king of asset hoarding(who knows how to sell salt to a slug)... means he made a near historic offer to move up. Phil probably could have asked for...

#16, #28, Brooklyn's 2016 1st, Minnesota's 2016 1st, 2019 unprotected 1st, Marcus Smart, Sullinger

for

#4 and THJr-Cleanthony


Just from Ainge alone without any 3rd party involved.

The rumor once again Ainge offered a combination totaling 6picks to Jordan. If you're telling me fans would hedge their bets on such an offer believeing #kporzee and Grant will be better than that, then you're just being silly


Now when you're GM-Pres(Phil) says you're rebuilding and the above is one of the parties you can do business with, then I'd wager we could have struck a deal with them to get what we want/needed, that puts us in as good if not better position there where we're currently at.

And if you say well we have no idea how many of those trillion 1st round picks Ainge owns are gonna pan out down the road....I'll fire back and raise you 1 and say what were some fans saying when we threw our 2016 1st swap pick in the deal to get Bargnani to match Brooklyn's moves 2 yrs ago...?


Let this be a saying to go by in life......."TOMORROW IS GONNA COME." You can live for today but you better darn sure make plans for tomorrow. Denver and Toronto know for a fact this is probably going to be a WIN-WIN season for them no matter how they finish.


The fact we took #kporzee shows to some degree we were willing to wait for a possible better pay off down the road. Yeah #kporzee is a tomorrow's plan to an extent but the problem here no one will be there to grow with him besides a soon to be 23yr old Grant(only 6mos younger than THjr). We needed assets in quantity because any great GM can get good value no matter the spot and/-or flip the assets into something better.

What we've done is what you call botched up rebuilding...obviously starting with the resigning of Melo

wow, If I were phil, I would have had ainge on speed dial!!! The celtics have a lot of assets and they can't possibly sign all of those picks over the years...

 

[Real NY Baller]

@THF, welcome to chapter 6.

The only angle is my perspective upon careful observation. I?m well aware of all the melodrama a few fans are creating. And for the most part I can agree with it. Except, I?m not so harsh on him simply because of the position he was placed in. One point you make that?s to be considered is his recent operation to his knee, this remains to be seen. 30 years old with his talents makes a well seasoned vet with a bigger appetite for winning. If he?s physically able to play on that knee?the age will not be a serious issue at all. Parrish, Kid, and other players went well into their 40?s and were still great contributors on a winning mentality team.


Mello?s tenure here was not an easy one. He not only had to deal with a roster that was consistently constructed poorly (worse than the teams he played on in Denver)? He had to constantly adapt while playing on a new team under 3 different coaches in the time he was here?and guess what? He still helped us get to the post season twice. Something we haven?t done since Ewing was wearing a Knicks Uni.


D?antonio was bust of a coach. He broke down our players and then went to LA to break down theirs. When he coached here?he often coached in a way that showed he mainly cared about the development of Gallinari. He started acting like a beyotch once his son was traded away. Woodson came in and did a decent job with an ill put together roster (for 1 year) and still made the playoffs, and then was soon replaced the following year. Now D Fisher gets a shot, so we now go from 2 veteran coaches to a rookie coach?who has provided us thirsty fans with the worse season I?ve ever witnessed in Knick history. During Carmello?s time here he played with 3 coaches, and an ever revolving roster. But, some fans seem to think we gave Mr. Antony a fair enough shot. Huh? How? I would like to know how these people are coming to this realization.


Do you think King James could have won under these conditions? Tyson chandler was the only other decent piece on the team. He was no true all-star nor was he a slouch?he played in the grey area. Actually, Chandler played well with Melo and was the heart of our team, imo. But the Knicks brass, obvious in their intelligent moves? ditched our most defensive/fiery presence for nothing in return?then turns around and ditched Shumpert, our other best defensive player for a bag of peanuts. Smh


The Carmello experiment has failed because the experiment was heavily flawed from the beginning. This was the year to finally put pieces in place that matched his skill set. Why build around him? Because he?s the best we have and proved it since he was here.


There were many spurts where mello and amare played well together. But Stat couldn?t stay healthy enough to stay on the damn court?plus he was being used poorly in that weak SSOL offense. Under Woodson, Amare still couldn?t stay healthy or mesh well? and the fact that they both played the same position isn?t going to do the ill experiment any justice. These are not excuses?just obvious observations from a spectator who plays this game religiously.


I don?t see Porzingis as our future simply because he isn?t showing enough to earn that status. I live in the Now, the future can only start Now. What happens NOW is what gives you a clue of what?s to come LATER. The future is bleak if you really think Porzingis is our future. The fact that I/we have heard similar things in the past makes me even more concern.


Like it or not Melo is the best thing we have NOW. You build upon that while you are going forward. You don?t invest in Melo then go into another experimental process. If you want to make Zinger the future, then bounce Melo out of town. We didn?t because Philly Jack thinks Melo and Porzingis will fit together... Is this the case? If so... I?m having a hard time trying to see this?can someone here please enlighten me.


IMO, the way this whole thing was done was sloppy as hell. It?s as if Melo was only signed to keep fans interested in watching the team?while they try to rebuild into something else in the process. That doesn?t sit well with me for many reasons.

Respect the fans and the players. You either sign him and pieces that fit together? or you get rid of him and get the pieces that are more fitting to your plans. I see none of this happening ?just more of the same head scratching decisions made by the poorly run Knicks organization. To be clear?I?m not running a melo campaign. What you?re witnessing is one of many disgruntle Knick?s fan patience running thin. If you are going to make moves?make them!?don?t half step and putsyfoot around?show some balls and go all in. The "New York Re-mix" is the only thing getting old around these parts...

 

[Broadway]

@TKF, welcome to chapter 6.




The Carmello experiment has failed because the experiment was heavily flawed from the beginning.

Explain why it was flawed from the beginning. I would be curious to know where you pick the starting point.

IMO, the way this whole thing was done was sloppy as hell. It’s as if Melo was only signed to keep fans interested in watching the team…while they try to rebuild into something else in the process. That doesn’t sit well with me for many reasons.

Respect the fans and the players. You either sign him and pieces that fit together… or you get rid of him and get the pieces that are more fitting to your plans. I see none of this happening …just more of the same head scratching decisions made by the poorly run Knicks organization. To be clear…I’m not running a melo campaign. What you’re witnessing is one of many disgruntle Knick’s fan patience running thin. If you are going to make moves…make them!…don’t half step and putsyfoot around…show some balls and go all in. The "New York Re-mix" is the only thing getting old around these parts...

Agree, so with the evidence that free agency showed us which there were a small crop of fans who knew this plan was flawed from the beginning going way back...knowing free agency would prove to be a fail......what would you have done with the 4th pick(knowing Carmelo would have no help in free agency?)

You weren't amongst the large mob of fans who thought free agency was gonna be a payoff did you? Not someone who has taken the time to break things down granually as you have. With no help in free agency...Melo has already shown over and over he's not capable of taking average rosters to new heights. Therefore what should have been done with the 4th pick?

 

[Tkf]

@THF, welcome to chapter 6.

The only angle is my perspective upon careful observation. I’m well aware of all the melodrama a few fans are creating. And for the most part I can agree with it. Except, I’m not so harsh on him simply because of the position he was placed in. One point you make that’s to be considered is his recent operation to his knee, this remains to be seen. 30 years old with his talents makes a well seasoned vet with a bigger appetite for winning. If he’s physically able to play on that knee…the age will not be a serious issue at all. Parrish, Kid, and other players went well into their 40’s and were still great contributors on a winning mentality team.


Mello’s tenure here was not an easy one. He not only had to deal with a roster that was consistently constructed poorly (worse than the teams he played on in Denver)… He had to constantly adapt while playing on a new team under 3 different coaches in the time he was here…and guess what? He still helped us get to the post season twice. Something we haven’t done since Ewing was wearing a Knicks Uni.


D’antonio was bust of a coach. He broke down our players and then went to LA to break down theirs. When he coached here…he often coached in a way that showed he mainly cared about the development of Gallinari. He started acting like a beyotch once his son was traded away. Woodson came in and did a decent job with an ill put together roster (for 1 year) and still made the playoffs, and then was soon replaced the following year. Now D Fisher gets a shot, so we now go from 2 veteran coaches to a rookie coach…who has provided us thirsty fans with the worse season I’ve ever witnessed in Knick history. During Carmello’s time here he played with 3 coaches, and an ever revolving roster. But, some fans seem to think we gave Mr. Antony a fair enough shot. Huh? How? I would like to know how these people are coming to this realization.


Do you think King James could have won under these conditions? Tyson chandler was the only other decent piece on the team. He was no true all-star nor was he a slouch…he played in the grey area. Actually, Chandler played well with Melo and was the heart of our team, imo. But the Knicks brass, obvious in their intelligent moves… ditched our most defensive/fiery presence for nothing in return…then turns around and ditched Shumpert, our other best defensive player for a bag of peanuts. Smh


The Carmello experiment has failed because the experiment was heavily flawed from the beginning. This was the year to finally put pieces in place that matched his skill set. Why build around him? Because he’s the best we have and proved it since he was here.


There were many spurts where mello and amare played well together. But Stat couldn’t stay healthy enough to stay on the damn court…plus he was being used poorly in that weak SSOL offense. Under Woodson, Amare still couldn’t stay healthy or mesh well… and the fact that they both played the same position isn’t going to do the ill experiment any justice. These are not excuses…just obvious observations from a spectator who plays this game religiously.


I don’t see Porzingis as our future simply because he isn’t showing enough to earn that status. I live in the Now, the future can only start Now. What happens NOW is what gives you a clue of what’s to come LATER. The future is bleak if you really think Porzingis is our future. The fact that I/we have heard similar things in the past makes me even more concern.


Like it or not Melo is the best thing we have NOW. You build upon that while you are going forward. You don’t invest in Melo then go into another experimental process. If you want to make Zinger the future, then bounce Melo out of town. We didn’t because Philly Jack thinks Melo and Porzingis will fit together... Is this the case? If so... I’m having a hard time trying to see this…can someone here please enlighten me.


IMO, the way this whole thing was done was sloppy as hell. It’s as if Melo was only signed to keep fans interested in watching the team…while they try to rebuild into something else in the process. That doesn’t sit well with me for many reasons.

Respect the fans and the players. You either sign him and pieces that fit together… or you get rid of him and get the pieces that are more fitting to your plans. I see none of this happening …just more of the same head scratching decisions made by the poorly run Knicks organization. To be clear…I’m not running a melo campaign. What you’re witnessing is one of many disgruntle Knick’s fan patience running thin. If you are going to make moves…make them!…don’t half step and putsyfoot around…show some balls and go all in. The "New York Re-mix" is the only thing getting old around these parts...

First of all carmelo was not placed in this position. This situation is one that carmelo created himself, from forcing himself here in a trade from the first place.

One point you make that’s to be considered is his recent operation to his knee, this remains to be seen. 30 years old with his talents makes a well seasoned vet with a bigger appetite for winning. If he’s physically able to play on that knee…the age will not be a serious issue at all. Parrish, Kid, and other players went well into their 40’s and were still great contributors on a winning mentality team.

really? how is that, if after 13 years his appetite for winning wasn't already big, after collecting millions in payments from the nuggets and knicks, why should I or anyone else feel that this will change after he got another big deal and has a bad knee, at this point in his career? that doesn't make sense.... parrish and kid? both guys had history of winning, they have a history of playing winning ball, it only makes sense that they would continue that well into their later years. Carmelo is not like those guys. We have history and a track record to prove that...

Mello’s tenure here was not an easy one. He not only had to deal with a roster that was consistently constructed poorly (worse than the teams he played on in Denver)… He had to constantly adapt while playing on a new team under 3 different coaches in the time he was here…and guess what? He still helped us get to the post season twice. Something we haven’t done since Ewing was wearing a Knicks Uni.

him forcing his way here is the reason why the roster was constructed poorly, couldn't he have waited to come as a free agent? oh but wait, he wanted more money.. again, this is a situation caused largely in part by his own doing.

D’antonio was bust of a coach. He broke down our players and then went to LA to break down theirs. When he coached here…he often coached in a way that showed he mainly cared about the development of Gallinari. He started acting like a beyotch once his son was traded away. Woodson came in and did a decent job with an ill put together roster (for 1 year) and still made the playoffs, and then was soon replaced the following year. Now D Fisher gets a shot, so we now go from 2 veteran coaches to a rookie coach…who has provided us thirsty fans with the worse season I’ve ever witnessed in Knick history. During Carmello’s time here he played with 3 coaches, and an ever revolving roster. But, some fans seem to think we gave Mr. Antony a fair enough shot. Huh? How? I would like to know how these people are coming to this realization.

so wait, carmelo excuse was changing rosters, bad players, etc.. dantoni doesn't get those excuses huh? although he had to deal with the same thing and had a fake star carmelo shoved on him.. yet dantoni was a bust under the same circumstances in which caremlo is the victim? wow... ok..

Do you think King James could have won under these conditions?

won? win what, ECF? TITLe? I think that is clear, lebron has taken lesser talented teams to the finals.. lebron is 10x the player carmelo is, why even engage in these hypotheticals.. we have lebrons actual work, and we have carmelo actual work.. carmelo had both shumpert and JR, lebron had them as well and went to the finals with them.. I am not sure how this helps your point.

There were many spurts where mello and amare played well together. But Stat couldn’t stay healthy enough to stay on the damn court…plus he was being used poorly in that weak SSOL offense. Under Woodson, Amare still couldn’t stay healthy or mesh well… and the fact that they both played the same position isn’t going to do the ill experiment any justice. These are not excuses…just obvious observations from a spectator who plays this game religiously.

no these are just another long line of excuses for carmelo and this also comes from someone who plays this game religiously and has done so for over 30 years..( I really don't understand how that legitimizes any point you or I am making, but ok, I'll play along)

I don’t see Porzingis as our future simply because he isn’t showing enough to earn that status. I live in the Now, the future can only start Now. What happens NOW is what gives you a clue of what’s to come LATER. The future is bleak if you really think Porzingis is our future. The fact that I/we have heard similar things in the past makes me even more concern.

earn the status? who on the knicks has earned such a status ? certainly a broken down carmelo hasn't.. I think it is better said that the future of the knicks hinges greatly on the success of porzingis. He is the guy the knicks drafted to go forward with, and not only him, guys like grant are also important to the knicks future... carmelo is collecting checks and the best thing for the knicks is to hope we suck enough to where he demands a trade and the rebuilding effort can go full blown.

ike it or not Melo is the best thing we have NOW. You build upon that while you are going forward. You don’t invest in Melo then go into another experimental process. If you want to make Zinger the future, then bounce Melo out of town. We didn’t because Philly Jack thinks Melo and Porzingis will fit together... Is this the case? If so... I’m having a hard time trying to see this…can someone here please enlighten me.

I don't like it and that is the flaw here. if carmelo is the best thing we have now, then we are in trouble. and do you really think phil drafted porzingis with carmelo in mind? really? is that what you think?

IMO, the way this whole thing was done was sloppy as hell. It’s as if Melo was only signed to keep fans interested in watching the team…while they try to rebuild into something else in the process. That doesn’t sit well with me for many reasons.

I agree it was sloppy, but I also think that it wasn't phils idea to sign carmelo, but he should take part of the blame. he signed him

and if his idea of signing porzingis was a way of showing dolan he is still going to rebuild going a different direction then he shouldn't have gone out and signed guys like lopez and alfalo. that to me just compounded the mistakes.

I don't think phil like carmelo, and I don't blame him. I also think phil as a GM may be in over his head. GREAT coach tho!!

Respect the fans and the players. You either sign him and pieces that fit together… or you get rid of him and get the pieces that are more fitting to your plans. I see none of this happening …just more of the same head scratching decisions made by the poorly run Knicks organization. To be clear…I’m not running a melo campaign. What you’re witnessing is one of many disgruntle Knick’s fan patience running thin. If you are going to make moves…make them!…don’t half step and putsyfoot around…show some balls and go all in. The "New York Re-mix" is the only thing getting old around these parts...

you make a point there, but part of this problem is carmelo's greed and foolishness coupled with dolans similar traits. both guys are made for each other. two idiots.. carmelo if he wanted to really win, had a better opp in chicago. he wants money, dolan likes names( regardless of the flaws) both guys have come together and it hasn't been good for the knicks. At some point you have to start looking at common denominators when it comes to problems. In the knicks case it is dolan and in carmelo case, be it here or denver, it has been carmelo.... players, coach's gm's have all come and gone, these two guys remain and we still are in the same mess as you just mentioned.

a complete enema is what was needed and we did a partial..