Official 2017 NBA Draft Thread - June 22

Frank Isola of the New York Daily News said that as of now, Frank Ntilikina will be a Knick if he's available with the No. 8 pick in the draft.
The Knicks have had a scout "babysitting" Ntilikina in Europe for nearly a month, and it's no secret that Phil Jackson likes big guards -- the PG is 6-5 with a 7-foot wingspan. The Mavericks, who pick No. 9 in the draft, are said to be big fans as well and have been scouting him thoroughly. Mark Cuban even flew to Venice last week to meet him. Ntilikina hasn't had a chance to work out for any teams because his French club Strasbourg is playing for the championship, but it sounds like his floor could be the ninth pick. Both New York and Dallas have an obvious need for a PG, so they would be ideal landing spots for Ntilikina.
 
The Celtics are expected to choose between Josh Jackson or Jayson Tatum with their No. 3 pick, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical.
This is assuming the Lakers do take Lonzo Ball, as well. There is also the possibility the Celtics make even more deals because we all know how much general manager Danny Ainge loves draft picks. Tatum fills a big need for Boston as an athletic four man, and he's also very likely to go in the top five regardless.



The Celtics' "overflowing backcourt" factored into their decision to pass on Markelle Fultz, according to Adam Himmelsbach of the Boston Globe.
Interesting. Sure, Marcus Smart is one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA, but that really shouldn't have been part of the thought process to pass on such a great prospect in Fultz. The Celtics do also really like Terry Rozier, and they're also likely to commit a lot of money to Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley.
 
I've been reading on Twitter that some think Ainge fleeced the 76ers with one guy saying it wasn't robbery but it was close, another saying he hates dealing with Ainge. Sixers have an excess of picks and giving up just one seems fair to put a guy in that you had T.J. McConnell in playing PG and having Simmon at PG smacks of a gimmick when you look at the size of the guy, it was originally reported that the Celts would get multiple firsts to move down which might qualify as a heist but 1 protected pick to lose Fultz doesn't seem enough imo.

I have the feeling Fultz is going to make Ainge regret this trade a few years down the road, I still feel IT is too small to be a Kyrie or Steph kind of PG in the playoffs and Fultz will be. Always felt IT was the 3rd best PG out of Bledsoe and the Dragon because of his size, maybe this year was an outlier and he comes back to his career averages.
 
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I've been reading on Twitter that some think Ainge fleeced the 76ers with one guy saying it wasn't robbery but it was close, another saying he hates dealing with Ainge. Sixers have an excess of picks and giving up just one seems fair to put a guy in that you had T.J. McConnell in playing PG and having Simmon at PG smacks of a gimmick when you look at the size of the guy, it was originally reported that the Celts would get multiple firsts to move down which might qualify as a heist but 1 protected pick to lose Fultz doesn't seem enough imo.

I have the feeling Fultz is going to make Ainge regret this trade a few years down the road, I still feel IT is too small to be a Kyrie or Steph kind of PG in the playoffs and Fultz will be. Always felt IT was the 3rd best PG out of Bledsoe and the Dragon because of his size, maybe this year was an outlier and he comes back to his career averages.


If Fultz is the next Kyrie, and plays defense like Avery Bradley, then.... yeah.... it doesn't matter if you give up picks (if those picks turn out to be Jordan Hill, Anthony Bennett, Fab Melo, and Jared Sullinger).

PHI thinks their young core is 1 PG away from being almost a complete set.... so they pulled the trigger. They only overpay if MF is a bust (or if Fox turns out to be better).
 
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That was a great article on Frenchie, he has some intangible qualities about him. I know he'll dignify the franchise with his refreshing style of play, he's smooth, graceful, with an element to surprise here and there. Very unique in many ways and we know he fits but if we're being fair there were things I didn't like...

For starters we need an alpha dog on this team, not a boys scout so the fact he had to be pumped up to be competitive during postseason play is alarming. The fact he played so poorly in one of those games is once again alarming, it's not the best competition over there compared to here. Not only will he be crossmatched against his contemporaries(draft class) he'll have to contend with the ELITE.

Frank is what he is, a very safe pick who'll for the most part be worth his salt but there is nothing I see in him that suggest a high ceiling. I won't talk myself into liking the pick more than necessary. I figured very early on he would most likely be our pick based on the set of circumstances surrounding he and our franchise. Matter of fact this reminds me of going back to the Ricky Rubio draft and how Knick fans clamored at a chance to draft him. Fans went on and on how what he did over there would translate seamlessly over here. It really hasn't, but Rubio isn't a bad player by any means. I call him SCRUBIO simply to needle that while decent he's simply a limited talent in comparison.

Looking at the comparisons and ceilings of the current players this is how it breaks down for me...

Fox=Wall
DSJ=Westbrook
Fultz=Roy smaller package
Monk=Barton/Crawford playmaker/shooter
Frankie=Rondo
Ball=Kidd(I have ???s)
Mitchell=Beal
Jackson=Kawhi
Isaac=Gannis
Tatum=Houston before knee probs
Jackson=Batum/Marion
Kennard=Klay and I'm being generous here


A Rondo type for the way our team as built works in function but isn't enough to make great leaps. I'll post the recent article on Smith and it'll rival Frankie's. Having people from your own camp gas you up is all part of the PR, all of these guys have this as part of the package.
 
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Knick fans said the same of Gallo and how his play overseas as a pro at such a young age and his metrics would translate seamlessly over here. It didn't, Gallo is a pretty good player(nowhere near ELITE) but arguably one of the better players from his draft class...not the best of the bunch and he did not succeed or create great separation pre/post draft class going forward.

Feeding into overseas hype is very dangerous #kporzee/hezonja/exum/valunciunas/saric/vucevic/schoeder...these are all really decent talents and some have more work to do than others but not a single one of them are franchise changing...NONE! Only 2 players that have caught my attention, one has lived up to being overseas game changers, Gannis(obviously) and Thon(he will get there, just a monster in the making). Philly/Bucks games are going to be magical.

The biggest difference in this draft I feel goes much deeper than recent drafts, so what hangs there at #8 could literally be a player that could've went #1 overall in past drafts. We should be trying to swing for the fences somewhat like Philly did.

I have other things to note. Philly had Monk and Fox in to work out week of trade talks emerging with Boston. Fox I believe worked out in the morning day of Fult'z evening visit. Yet neither of them caused Philly to back off slightly of drafting Fultz #1 overall? Doesn't this raise questions with you guys slightly? Well I saw clips(sample size) from both of their workouts and they appeared lackluster, maybe they both knew and didn't care to be drafted there as it was all a formality. You have Jackson already throwing shade Fultz way via Twitter although I think it's just fun competitive banter coming from him :teeth:. He personally said no team can afford to sleep on the top prospects from this draft class because they are that good. I respect Josh being so candid an honest because it was of no profit to him to say this.

Oh and why did Hinkie get fired again? Is he doing it right now Adam Silver...lol? None of this is possible unless Hinkie did what he did and the day Phil calls it quits if Hinkie is available he tops my list of most wanted GMs. They own all of our 2nd round picks until 2021, like how was this even allowed by the league(David Stern)...where were the vetoes for basketball reasons, lol?

As far as Ainge is concerned if we felt Fox/Monk/Jackson would've been special prospects to obtain in comparison to a talent like Fultz...uhmmmm doesn't Ainge have the same chance to get them @3? Why the continued skepticism with Ainge? He's in position to sign Hayward or Griffin no trades this summer. He's in position to trade for the likes of Butler or say Cousins. The only problem I see is him losing assets due to over accumulation but whoever happens to leave he has an equal if not better asset waiting as a replacement. Like what was Ainge supposed to do that would've appeased Knick fans lol?

Good trade for both teams although I feel Cs slightly have the edge because for one they are the better team, this trade doesn't change that matter of fact they may be even better just on pick alone considering fit(Jackson) and they'll keep retooling not with aging, overrated, has beens never wases players but with youth.
 
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Robert Sabo New York Post

Executives from at least 10 NBA teams, including a representative from the Knicks, were at North Carolina State on Thursday for Dennis Smith Jr.’s pro day.

Though the 6-foot-3 freshman point guard is projected in the mid-lottery in most mock drafts, Smith’s longtime trainer told The Post that talent evaluators will be eyeballing the most talented player available in the June 22 draft.Shawn Farmer, the garrulous 48-year-old trainer who played eight seasons overseas, believes Smith has gotten a bum rap from the Wolfpack’s miserable season. He said scouts don’t take into account the diligence Smith showed in making it back from an ACL tear that cost him his senior year of high school.

“The kid is the best player in the draft — hands down,’’ Farmer told The Post in a phone interview Thursday. “No disrespect to Markelle [Fultz], no disrespect to Josh [Jackson], no disrespect to Lonzo [Ball]. I’ve seen all the kids play. It’s not being biased. Dennis Smith is the best player in the draft — the most upside of anyone in the draft. You can print all of that.’’

Nine days ago, Smith arrived in New York and met with Knicks president Phil Jackson for a dinner, but never worked out on the court. According to Farmer, it was “an agent thing.’’

“It’s not like Dennis didn’t want to work out,’’ Farmer said.

With the pro day scheduled for the following week — the Knicks were represented Thursday by college-scouting director, Mark Hughes, who recently interviewed for the Hawks’ general manager job — they skipped an on-court, solo workout (Jackson prefers group workouts to run through the triangle).

The Knicks wanted Smith, because he skipped the Chicago combine, to take measurements and a medical exam during his visit, according to Farmer. Smith’s reps declined. However, Smith did some drills in a workout last week for the Lakers, reportedly logging a 48-inch vertical jump, tied for the highest recorded in NBA history. On Thursday, Smith performed shooting, pick-and-roll and dunking drills. Jackson still interviewed Smith, whose leadership was questioned as a freshman as he led NC State to a 4-14 record in the ACC, second-worst in the league.

“From what I hear, they did have a good meeting,’’ Farmer said. “I know Dennis respects people who came before him. He respects what Phil Jackson’s done with Michael, respects what Phil did with Kobe and Shaq and all those title teams. Dennis is a student of the game. He has a lot of respect for Phil and his accomplishments.’’

Playing in New York is an opportunity Smith would embrace, Farmer said, despite the Knicks’ four straight seasons out of the playoffs.

“He got a taste for New York at the ACC tournament,’’ Farmer said. “He loves being the underdog, don’t like be the front-runner. He’s been the underdog his whole life. New York is considered the underdog organization now. Before they were a prominent organization. Lately they’re underdogs. Who wouldn’t want to play in New York and bring them back? That was his mindset going to NC State.’’

Smith’s journey is well-documented. He tore his ACL in August before senior year in an AAU game. He graduated high school a semester early so he could enroll at NC State in January 2016 to begin his course load and finish his rehab with NC State’s medical staff.Nothing gets Farmer’s goat more than negative critiques that Smith didn’t make his teammates better and that his attitude contributed to a losing environment. NC State’s coaching staff was fired in February, though Mark Gottfried and his assistants finished out the season.

“Totally unfair,’’ Farmer said. “How can you say that about a kid who tore his ACL, been out a year. rehabbed, came into major a conference like the ACC, put an entire university on his back? He did a great job of keeping poise, composure. He didn’t fire back on teammates or coaches. He handled the situation as good as anyone. They didn’t have a good season the year before.

“They labeled him as not being a leader. What else did you want the kid to do? Two triple doubles, led the ACC in assists and that Duke game was a statement game.’’

Smith was named ACC Freshman of the Year after averaging 18.1 points and 6.2 assists per game. Smith put up 32 points and six assists as NC State won on the road at Duke in January.

“People have no idea how this kid worked back, how hard he attacked his rehab,” Farmer said. “I picked Dennis up off the floor after he tore his ACL in LA. I was right there when his doctor told him it was 99 percent torn. He didn’t get down on himself. He attacked it.

”A lot of people don’t know what went into coming back from a devastating injury like that. It could’ve been catastrophic. Mentally, it could’ve been catastrophic. And he’s still being labeled. ‘Can he lead a team, his decision-making?’ That’s what a leader does. A leader is somebody who is behind the scenes, when media like you guys don’t see, [and] prepared himself to be 100 percent when he went to NC State.’’

Farmer gives Smith’s father, Dennis Smith Sr., the most credit for getting his son to this point – a week from his name being announced as an NBA lottery pick. Smith’s mother left when he was young. Farmer said the elder Smith drove his son four days a week from Fayetteville, NC, to a Duke sports medicine facility and jogged with him on the track “every step of the way’’ during his recovery from the knee injury.

“The dad attacked the rehab as much as Dennis,’’ Farmer said. “Nobody gives Senior credit. They talk about Mother’s Day. No disrespect to moms, but Mother’s Day you can’t get into a restaurant. Father’s Day? You can get in anywhere you want. We don’t get enough credit. I’ve seen what he’s done molding a professional basketball player.’’
 
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I like Wally, but when he does commentary for games you can hear he's one of those biased commentators lol.

I take nothing he nor Alan Hahn say about this team seriously, straight emotional robots(oxymoron on purpose)

I mean how long have we've known Frenchie's measurables? lol @ Wally talking about he's Greek Freaky 6'5"-7'0" wingspan...please tell us something that we don't know(Mase voice).

Hey how come we didn't hear all this yappin 4-5 weeks ago when Frenchie was putting up shots at Terminal 23? Isola cranks out his piece and here comes all the sheep sippin the Kool-Aid. Like stop being programmed...lol
 
Wally works for MSG still right, so no surprise here. He's a puppet always has been day 1 on the job
Works for CBS Sports also. He's a broadcaster and not a GM or in Knicks mgt. so he's a glorified fan whose opinion means not much more than yours or mine but that's a pretty strong statement from someone that was a former player saying very positive things about Frank who he admits he hasn't seen play as much the others.
 
I mean how long have we've known Frenchie's measurables? lol @ Wally talking about he's Greek Freaky 6'5"-7'0" wingspan...please tell us something that we don't know(Mase voice).

Hey how come we didn't hear all this yappin 4-5 weeks ago when Frenchie was putting up shots at Terminal 23? Isola cranks out his piece and here comes all the sheep sippin the Kool-Aid. Like stop being programmed...lol
lol

Man I hope we do get a good starter in this draft. Even if we get a Rondo type player, that's excellent. We saw what he did against the Celtics. Not that we'd be DRAFTING Rondo, but yeah. Especially with this organization we need IQ coming in. Too risky to have an exceptionally athletic player who has a long way to go with learning the game in an organization not known for developing players.
 
If we draft an excellent PG, then I DO like where the Knicks could be heading. Having a good PG and big men is a great start.
 
Works for CBS Sports also. He's a broadcaster and not a GM or in Knicks mgt. so he's a glorified fan whose opinion means not much more than yours or mine but that's a pretty strong statement from someone that was a former player saying very positive things about Frank who he admits he hasn't seen play as much the others.

Actually if he really broke it down a little more and didn't cite the obvious, maybe he could be credible but in this case he isn't. Case in point in the article he says "close call" but states he gives the edge simply based on measurables and Knicks scouting him. That's extremely lazy on his part, especially in a league where the 3 ball and playmaking/ability to break down defenses and get to the hole is paramount.

Instead he went predictable on us and said hey "the kid is long and can be like Greek Freak" that's as dope as it gets. He company manned in this article. Trust if we don't draft Frankie(doubt it) watch what Wally says on draft night, he'll pivot and 180 faster than another dollar being added to the national debt.
 
If we draft an excellent PG, then I DO like where the Knicks could be heading. Having a good PG and big men is a great start.

That's another bonus and why I like Frenchie over Monk, looks like he's more pure as a 1 and would understand how to attack/defend/distribute from the position. I like him slightly over Isaac because once again he fills a need but I would trade #kporzee for Isaac and pick(s) to pair with Frenchie if presented.
 
3 days to go. ESPN thinks we are going to end up with DSJ, Monk, or Ntilikina. Seems like a safe set of predictions assuming we stay at 8 (which I think we will).
 
That's the thing, b/c despite the disappointing season (after bringing in Lee, Rose, & Noah) here we are in a position in the lottery to help our future..... And despite sliding from 4 to 8.... Here we are on the verge of grabbing DSJ, Ntikilina, Isaac, or Monk.

Personally, I would grab DSJ (if I had my choice of the 4)..... but I do realize he doesn't have size or game to fit Phil's style and the triangle.

If DSJ were a few inches taller he would be top pick!

Anyway.... point is mute.... bc top 7 teams makes our decision easy: we simply pick up whoever falls to us. We don't have much of a choice here. If anything, we are forced to select between 2 of these 4.

Still, here we are on verge of drafting a legitimate prospect. A case could be made for all of the bunch.
 
That's the thing, b/c despite the disappointing season (after bringing in Lee, Rose, & Noah) here we are in a position in the lottery to help our future..... And despite sliding from 4 to 8.... Here we are on the verge of grabbing DSJ, Ntikilina, Isaac, or Monk.

Personally, I would grab DSJ (if I had my choice of the 4)..... but I do realize he doesn't have size or game to fit Phil's style and the triangle.

If DSJ were a few inches taller he would be top pick!

Anyway.... point is mute.... bc top 7 teams makes our decision easy: we simply pick up whoever falls to us. We don't have much of a choice here. If anything, we are forced to select between 2 of these 4.

Still, here we are on verge of drafting a legitimate prospect. A case could be made for all of the bunch.
8th picks have not been transformative players, best of the bunch is arguably Jamal Crawford and we had him. Frank is being compared to the Freak, but I don't see it other than their Euro-African ancestry, Wally went overboard there lol. Let's hope if we pick him he turns out somewhere near as good, the Freak may become the best player in the game after Lebron retires so I doubt Frank is near as good.
 
I'm starting to feel this is where he's going for some reason



I know they've scouted him very thoroughly and they are high on foreign prospects


Okay here is a clear and present danger to Knicks on Frankie, figured they wanted him bad, Mavs may have to trade up to get him

 
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