Official Let Lee Go Thread.

[pakopako]

Bosh ain't coming to NY, Lee is a very good PF, bad C, who's playing on a really bad team, get a good C, (not a superstar), just a good C, an an actual PG, and you guys easily have 8-10 more wins right now , with Lee than without. My opinion for the price you can't afford to lose Lee, especially if Donnie manages to bring in 1 maybe 2 max money players.

I actually look forward to the Knicks getting only one max-contract player. This lets the team spend more on role-players (like Lee) to offer better support and a deeper bench.

 

[RaptorRulz]

You still here? I really hope for your sake that you are an alt account for one of our regulars just posting to flame...either way you are just sad. I know it makes you upset that Toronto can't hold on to any of their stars but coming here to bitch is pathetic. Face facts, Toronto will always cultivate talent only to see them leave to a bigger and better market. Bosh will be gone and so will Derozen in a few years.

Toronto = NBA D league team

I'm still here.. and no one is bitching, and the notion of to potential big FA's shunning the mecca makes you quake in your boots, and it's fine to pick the best players in the league, and wanting them to play for your team, who doesn't want that. And if Toronto is NBA D league team as you state what have the Knicks been for the last 5 years or so?? Washington Generals come to mind.. 67 pts in one game?? I thought they stopped playing after the third quarter. I'm sure that should LBJ, decline Donnie's invitation which is more and more plausible, I'm sure I'll see 2011 threads bring Melo in then 2014 threads bring in KD35, It's a never ending story, trust me coming from a city where owners think they can buy talent(Toronto Maple Leafs) rather than cultivate and develop draft picks and prospects,just doesn't work ,there will always be this discussion, not flaming just stating the facts just as you stated that we develop talent and they leave which has been true, but just like NYK fans stating that things will be different so can other teams, just my two cents.

 

[Crazy⑧s]

He is getting better and this was his best year. Further he was a restricted FA during a massive recession where teams were cutting costs due to a loss in revenue and clearing space for the summer of Bron.



He is not a fan favorite land can't yet win a popularity contest in the NBA. The fact that he was selected is evidence enough of his skills.



The season is not over yet so we may get more wins than that. In addition, one player can't compensate for a terrible supporting cast unless your initials are KB, DW, LJ or MJ. Lee is not a number one option either, he is a great number 2 option though. He will complement a superstar like Lebron perfectly. He does not need set plays to earn his points nor does he need to dominate the ball.



Correct, PF's normally need a center...



What system? SSOL was not implemented this year and we slowed our offense down to match our players. SSOL is the system everyone talks about when mentioning inflated stats. Further the system has nothing to do with a high FG% or elite rebounding skills.



We are not doing traditional rebuilding. We will be instant contenders if Walsh is successful with his plan. Lee is a perfect PF on a championship team that has strong players at other positions.

done, dusted, date raped.

 

[Red]

What kind of player is TOP 5 in their position but can't take over a game, at any point?

What kind of player is TOP 5 but needs another just to compenstae for what everyother TOP guy can do?

What kind of player is over paid, and under-achieves, so much so we can't directly attribute any win to him?

I'll tell you who....



They're ex-Knicks!

The time for OVERPAYING for limited/inconsistent returns on this Team is over!

Lee = Too expensive & too limited to be considered for our future. Period!

At < than 8mil maybe he's worth it. At 10-12 mil... he's not even a consideration on a rebuilder.

This is what Donnie is establishing. "NO MORE OVER-PAYING" not even for Lee!

 

[TR1LL10N]

I'm still here.. and no one is bitching, and the notion of to potential big FA's shunning the mecca makes you quake in your boots, and it's fine to pick the best players in the league, and wanting them to play for your team, who doesn't want that. And if Toronto is NBA D league team as you state what have the Knicks been for the last 5 years or so?? Washington Generals come to mind.. 67 pts in one game?? I thought they stopped playing after the third quarter. I'm sure that should LBJ, decline Donnie's invitation which is more and more plausible, I'm sure I'll see 2011 threads bring Melo in then 2014 threads bring in KD35, It's a never ending story, trust me coming from a city where owners think they can buy talent(Toronto Maple Leafs) rather than cultivate and develop draft picks and prospects,just doesn't work ,there will always be this discussion, not flaming just stating the facts just as you stated that we develop talent and they leave which has been true, but just like NYK fans stating that things will be different so can other teams, just my two cents.

Listen...

1. You are a Craptors fan in a NY Knicks forum. I have heard of dick envy but Knick envy...
2. You are currently a better team and no one with a brain can refute that fact. That said, Toronto is STILL by far a way worse FRANCHISE. They have no history and no market. Their mascot and theme is a purple dinosaur designed to attract little kids who watch Barney.
3. Since the Craptors inception into the NBA the Knicks have made more playoff appearances and have reached the finals.
4. You are a D league team not because of your current talent but because you Develop talent only to see it leave time and time again. This will most likely always be the case and you can bank on Bosh leaving after this season and Derozen to bolt shortly after.

Walsh has put the Knicks in great financial health and afforded us massive flexibility. We may not get Lebron or Bosh but we will be able to make massive upgrades and still have space in 2011. Having cap space in the biggest baskeball market is never a bad thing. Hate all you want but you are still a Craptor fan on a Knick forum and that makes you a loser.

 

[TR1LL10N]

What kind of player is TOP 5 in their position but can't take over a game, at any point?

Lee has taken over games and won several games for us over the years. The .01 buzzer beater comes to mind as do many other games when he got 30 and 20.

What kind of player is TOP 5 but needs another just to compenstae for what everyother TOP guy can do?

What are you talking about? MJ needed Pippen. Wade needed Shaq. Kobe needed Shaq or Gasol. Lebron needs...insert X. (twan aint cutting it)

What kind of player is over paid, and under-achieves, so much so we can't directly attribute any win to him?

Overpaid? Lee is hardly overpaid now. Further we have no idea what his salary will be next year...


Lee may not be a KNick next year but he is certainly an elite PF and will find a home. He has the potential to be a great second option on a championship caliber team. I think you invested too much into your irrational hate and can't walk back your comments even though I have made a strong case and dismissed most of your claims.

 

[bayejorl]

I don't think Lee is overrated or overpayed. He's a PF playing at C. Put a solid C to play C, kick Al Harrington's ass and put Lee at PF, and the team will be rocking.

If Lee accepts a 9-11 million contract (no more) , I'd keep him and go for LeBron/Wade as the only max contracts, and search a quality C. I don't know what kind of contracts would accept people as Jermaine O'neal or Marcus Camby, but they would compliment Lee quite good.

 

[Paul1355]

abuses him. I've concluded that in a round about way, Lee is partly responsible. His contract demands won't allow us to sign anyone who can help in the paint.

Even with a Max player or 2 we will need what I can only describe as "specialists" to fill out the roster.

Lee is a rebounding "specialist" he would be perfect. But not for 10 - 12 mil. That's money is reserved for those who can bring more than fundamentals to the table.

Let's forget his homegrown resume, his double x2's, and his complextion (I know this is why some root so much) and let's look into the future.
Unless Lee by miracle can transform to a cornerstone- after we acquire 2 stars (hopefully) or even 1 and a quasi star- why would we pay Lee to rebound? Why would we...
Again not knocking him, Lee will never defend any better, get quicker, nor approach the fundamentl abilities of natural bigs who can defend.
I can't see signing anyone and not addressing our issue of no interior defense. That's why I know we are wasting time with Lee. I'd bet my left nut we could have won 19 games without Lee. I'd bet we'ed be better with a "defensive big specialist" than double dub. "rebounding specialist" Lee.
Lee's price tag, lack of essential big man skills, and our need to boost interior intimidation have led to believe Lee indirectly is part of the problem and not the solution. No hate, like with N8- Lee just isn't what we need for success.
If Bosh doesn't sign here... that's Bosh, Howard, Bogot, Garnot, Horford on and on and on... of big men that will make their living abusing the Lee's of the world in the paint. Teams w/ real defensive presence, will make our Max's irrelivent, and so does having a limited over priced big in Lee. I say cut our losses and renounce his rights/ sign and trade (if possible) and move on.

I agree with your analysis on Lee but we dont have a legit Center to play with him. If Lee had a Center to start with him...then we would not even be talking about Lee's crappy defense.

Lee was never a Center and is still a PF....Mike D makes him look bad by pairing him with huge guys like Bogut.

This is why Bender should be in the starting lineup over Gallo, who has done nothing for a while now.

Lee and Bender give us size and eventhough Bender plays more like a tall PF, he is better than Harrington when it coems to rebounding and defense and is 7 feet tall!

 

[TR1LL10N]

I don't think Lee is overrated or overpayed. He's a PF playing at C. Put a solid C to play C, kick Al Harrington's ass and put Lee at PF, and the team will be rocking.

If Lee accepts a 9-11 million contract (no more) , I'd keep him and go for LeBron/Wade as the only max contracts, and search a quality C. I don't know what kind of contracts would accept people as Jermaine O'neal or Marcus Camby, but they would compliment Lee quite good.

Quality post and a rep point for you!

The Knicks can blow their wad on on two max players or they can sign one max contract and build a deep squad. I only sign two max players if they are Lebron and Bosh. Any other combination of max players is not worth it and will lead to us overpaying for one. If we can't get two max players try to get Bosh or Lebron, Lee, re-sign T-mac to a reasonable 3 year deal and fill the roster out with role players. Then go and try to trade Curry at the deadline or sign a FA once he comes off the books. It's not rocket science and Walsh has put us in a position to make major moves either way.

 

[Toons]

Walsh can slice the new cap room up three ways. If the Knicks get James, they can divvy up Lee and a second-tier free agent such as Carlos Boozer or Jermaine O'Neal. Before the Tracy McGrady deal, Lee's future seemed bleak. If the Knicks got a max guy, there wouldn't have been enough left for Lee.

"At the end of the day, it's not going to come down to money but what direction the Knicks want to go in the future," said Lee, who probably will command at least $10-13M a year. "And a lot of it is what LeBron and the top three guys, LeBron, Bosh, [Dwyane] Wade, do.

"I love it here in New York," Lee added. "It's been my home for five years. . . . I hope to be here in the future."

* Coach Mike D'Antoni, talking about the Knicks' lack of centers, with Al Harrington now the backup pivot, was blindsided by a question about rehabbing Eddy Curry. D'Antoni stammered that Curry may practice in a week or two. The Knicks are expected to buy Curry out this summer to save another $1 to $2 million of cap space. . . . D'Antoni said he'd also like to look at the Celtics' Bill Walker, a fellow West Virginia native

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/cap_room_helps_lee_walsh_ZBG3otzDiJadhehZ3xSb7I#ixzz0gNXnAQNE

 

[nyk_nyk]

abuses him. I've concluded that in a round about way, Lee is partly responsible. His contract demands won't allow us to sign anyone who can help in the paint.

Even with a Max player or 2 we will need what I can only describe as "specialists" to fill out the roster.

Lee is a rebounding "specialist" he would be perfect. But not for 10 - 12 mil. That's money is reserved for those who can bring more than fundamentals to the table.

Let's forget his homegrown resume, his double x2's, and his complextion (I know this is why some root so much) and let's look into the future.
Unless Lee by miracle can transform to a cornerstone- after we acquire 2 stars (hopefully) or even 1 and a quasi star- why would we pay Lee to rebound? Why would we...
Again not knocking him, Lee will never defend any better, get quicker, nor approach the fundamentl abilities of natural bigs who can defend.
I can't see signing anyone and not addressing our issue of no interior defense. That's why I know we are wasting time with Lee. I'd bet my left nut we could have won 19 games without Lee. I'd bet we'ed be better with a "defensive big specialist" than double dub. "rebounding specialist" Lee.
Lee's price tag, lack of essential big man skills, and our need to boost interior intimidation have led to believe Lee indirectly is part of the problem and not the solution. No hate, like with N8- Lee just isn't what we need for success.
If Bosh doesn't sign here... that's Bosh, Howard, Bogot, Garnot, Horford on and on and on... of big men that will make their living abusing the Lee's of the world in the paint. Teams w/ real defensive presence, will make our Max's irrelivent, and so does having a limited over priced big in Lee. I say cut our losses and renounce his rights/ sign and trade (if possible) and move on.

Agreed.
I understand exactly what you are saying. Lee has talent no doubt but his stats don't necessarily contribute to winning. There have been plenty of games where Lee had better overall stats than the opposing PF or C but the game was still lost because he lacked doing the little things that win games.

I remember when we played the Mavericks in that blowout loss and saying to myself how even though Lee and Gooden were putting up similar numbers, Gooden had a greater impact for his team because he blocked or either changed shots on numerous possessions. If you really pay attention to Lee, he will jump out the building to get a rebound but will not put forth the same hustle on the defensive end.

Double doubles are cool but not if at the end of the game it only looks good from an individual standpoint. 27 pts and 15 rebs are great but if its only one sided then what's the point? I'd rather 15pts 9reb 3blk and 4-5 fouls off shot blocking attempts. I'm not for paying 10mil just for double doubles. If we had a shot blocking center to play with Lee then fine but we don't have that luxury so let's gain from his popularity with a sign and trade and get an impact player in return.

 

[bayejorl]

Thanks!

I'd keep Lee over Bosh if we're talking about a 9-11 million contract and it's sure either Wade or LeBron are coming. The problem, the fear I have, is if Bosh it'ts the only max FA of the big three ones we can sign, because having both Lee and Bosh makes no sense. But Bosh deffense isn't any great, he isn't such an upgrade over Lee. And specially if it's 5-7 million more.

My 1st option would be Wade or LeBron + a quality center, and keep Lee.

 

[RaptorRulz]

Listen...

1. You are a Craptors fan in a NY Knicks forum. I have heard of dick envy but Knick envy...
2. You are currently a better team and no one with a brain can refute that fact. That said, Toronto is STILL by far a way worse FRANCHISE. They have no history and no market. Their mascot and theme is a purple dinosaur designed to attract little kids who watch Barney.
3. Since the Craptors inception into the NBA the Knicks have made more playoff appearances and have reached the finals.
4. You are a D league team not because of your current talent but because you Develop talent only to see it leave time and time again. This will most likely always be the case and you can bank on Bosh leaving after this season and Derozen to bolt shortly after.

Believe me there is no envy, infact I think the Knick's have been the least enviable team in the NBA for over a decade. Having this superiority complex being in NY has clouded your thinking, you make fun of our mascot?? really?? I guess your macsot would be Eddie Curry, cause from what I hear on this board , he not good for anything which I agree but this has been par for the course with your Knicks for quite some time. You're history is that you overpay for below than mediocre talent (see Eddie Curry) . You've made it to the finals only to lose in 5. It's been 40 years. Donnie has bet the farm on he future on the hopes that he convince all-stars to come and play on a team, that hasn't won anything in years (40). And with no young talent or prospects or bench for that matter, it's kinda difficult to sell, like saying, I'll sell you this porshe with only three wheels thinking that it can go fast.

The Raprtors have stability and it kills you to see a team that has been in the league only 15 years, have such a bright future ahead of them with young talent, a superstar PF, and an emerging all star C, an allstar SF, most prodcutive PG combo in the league and a future star on the wing, and 3 of our starters we drafted, and our PG coming off the bench could start for a dozen teams..oh yeah we drafed that one too... The Raptors didn't need to wait for FA's. We have a strong nucleus now to be competetive for years to come, something that has been lacking in Toronto, and definately in the big apple. Keep dreaming on getting Bosh. When it comes down to it, in order to do a sign and trade the Raptors have to agree to the terms not the other way around, Bosh is not leaving 30M on the table over the life of his next contract don't care if LBJ is there or not,and the Knicks have absolutley nothing to offer in terms of comparable value, nada, zip zilch zero.

 

[Red]

"You're history is that you overpay for below than mediocre talent (see Eddie Curry) "

Wow, touch? my Canadian supporter. Way to back your squad.

Well said... add Lee to the list for potential guys we overpay for without the talent.

 

[TR1LL10N]

Believe me there is no envy, infact I think the Knick's have been the least enviable team in the NBA for over a decade. Having this superiority complex being in NY has clouded your thinking

Yet we have more playoff experiences and have made it to the finals... We lost to the Spurs who were about to embark on a dynasty with injuries to Ewing and LJ. There is no superiority complex...it's pure fact. NYC is greater than any Canadian city in almost every way. YOur country already lost one of it's NBA franchises to Memphis of all places!

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<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr valign="bottom" align="center"> <td class="headerow">Rank</td><td class="headerow">Team</td><td class="headerow">Current Value¹ ($mil)</td><td class="headerow">1-Yr Value Change (%)</td><td class="headerow">Debt/Value² (%)</td><td class="headerow">Revenue³ ($mil)</td><td class="headerow">Operating Income⁴ ($mil)</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 1 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Los Angeles Lakers</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 607 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 4 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 20 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 209 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 51.1 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 2 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">New York Knicks</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 586 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -4 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 0 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 202 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 21.0 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 3 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Chicago Bulls</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 511 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 2 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 11 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 168 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 51.0 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 4 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Detroit Pistons</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 479 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 0 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 0 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 171 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 46.9 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 5 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Cleveland Cavaliers</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 476 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 0 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 42 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 159 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 5.0 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 6 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Houston Rockets</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 470 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 0 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 15 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 160 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 30.3 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 7 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Dallas Mavericks</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 446 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -4 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 26 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 154 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -17.4 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 8 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Boston Celtics</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 433 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -3 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 42 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 144 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 12.9 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 9 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Phoenix Suns</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 429 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -5 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 43 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 148 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 20.7 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 10 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">San Antonio Spurs</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 398 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -4 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 12 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 133 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 19.1 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 11 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Toronto Raptors</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 386 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -3 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 38 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 133 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 18.0 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 12 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Miami Heat</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 364 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -7 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 45 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 126 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 8.0 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 13 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Orlando Magic</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 361 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 4 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 30 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 107 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -2.2 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 14 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Philadelphia 76ers</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 344 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -4 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 19 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 115 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 7.6 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 15 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Utah Jazz</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 343 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -4 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 6 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 118 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 7.9 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 16 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Portland Trail Blazers</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 338 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 10 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 31 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 121 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -20.3 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 17 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Denver Nuggets</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 321 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -3 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 11 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 115 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 4.6 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 18 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Golden State Warriors</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 315 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -6 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 24 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 113 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 11.9 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 19 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Washington Wizards</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 313 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -11 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 62 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 110 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 4.9 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 20 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Oklahoma City Thunder</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 310 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 3 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 45 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 111 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 12.7 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 21 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Atlanta Hawks</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 306 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 0 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 21 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 103 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -2.0 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 22 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Sacramento Kings</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 305 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -13 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 31 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 109 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -2.8 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 23 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Los Angeles Clippers</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 295 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -1 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 0 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 102 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 10.0 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 24 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Indiana Pacers</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 281 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -7 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 18 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 97 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -15.7 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 25 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Charlotte Bobcats</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 278 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -2 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 58 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 96 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -15.1 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 26 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">New Jersey Nets</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 269 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -9 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 77 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 92 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -13.9 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 27 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Minnesota Timberwolves</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 268 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -11 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 19 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 96 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -6.8 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 28 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">New Orleans Hornets</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 267 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -6 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 55 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 95 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -0.1 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 29 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Memphis Grizzlies</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 257 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -13 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 58 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 88 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -7.1 </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="highlight" align="center"> 30 </td><td class="rowcolor" nowrap="nowrap">Milwaukee Bucks</td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 254 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -9 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 22 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> 91 </td><td class="rowcolor" align="right"> -7.4 </td></tr></tbody></table>

New York was number one for many years and still retains the # 2 spot even after a horrible decade. To be the one team repping an entire country yet 11th on the list is pathetic.

I guess your macsot would be Eddie Curry, cause from what I hear on this board , he not good for anything which I agree but this has been par for the course with your Knicks for quite some time. You're history is that you overpay for below than mediocre talent (see Eddie Curry)

Great...we all know Curry was a waste and our previous management sucked. That is our recent history not our HISTORY.

Our history consists of several hall of fame players, two championships countless playoff experiences and paving the way for new teams like the Craptors to emerge into a league the Knicks played a part in creating.

The Craptors history consists of ZERO finals appearances and losing one talented player after another. From 2002-2006 your team sucked too! They will suck again once Bosh is gone.

The Raprtors have stability

They have the opposite of stability. They sucked until they got Carter...he left. They sucked till they got McGrady...he left. They sucked until they got Bosh...he WILL LEAVE. You cannot retain marquee players nor are you winning anything anytime soon. Keep dreaming...

he Raptors didn't need to wait for FA's. We have a strong nucleus now to be competetive for years to come, something that has been lacking in Toronto, and definately in the big apple.

Bosh is gone and I bet money on that! Soon to be followed by Derozen.

Knicks have absolutley nothing to offer in terms of comparable value

The Knicks can offer a max deal and very close to what the Craptors can offer. One NYC endorsement deal will make up for the rest. Further we offer Bosh an opportunity to play on a big stage and make a name for himself. Again, all your talent leaves and that is not coincidence. YOur city and your team does not have what it takes to attact and retain super stars. You don't wait for free agents because none will come. The Craptors have drafted well because they have sucked and could not sign FA talent to lift them out of the lottery. It's a pattern, draft talent, play well, lose talent...right back in the lottery. Like I said, the NBA's D league.

 

[RaptorRulz]

"You're history is that you overpay for below than mediocre talent (see Eddie Curry) "

Wow, touch? my Canadian supporter. Way to back your squad.

Well said... add Lee to the list for potential guys we overpay for without the talent.

Thanks, but I have to disagree on Lee, I think he is an excellent player, who should be resigned, a double double machine like Lee is hard to come by and should be held on to, which I think Donnie will do, and at a discount, Lee said he loves it in NY. The money should be allocated to a SG, PG, and a C in my opinion, and make your bench deeper, because injuries happen and you need depth in order to be successful. 2 max FA's would limit the Knicks ability to do that.

 

[TR1LL10N]

"You're history is that you overpay for below than mediocre talent (see Eddie Curry) "

Wow, touch? my Canadian supporter. Way to back your squad.

Well said... add Lee to the list for potential guys we overpay for without the talent.

Your irrational hatred has lead you to quote and give props to a Craptor fan who is here solely to bash the Knicks. Further in your obsession with vindicating your original post you are speculating on what we will sign Lee for without a shred of proof. It's quite sad...

 

[VeryGundy]

Lee is Lee. He is a serviceable frontcourt player who plays hard. But he is undersized and does not have a post-up game. Do I think he is overpaid? Probably but then again we paid 7 mil for Jared.

It is painfully obvious to every Knicks' fan that Lee is not the solution at center. Move him to PF and we will bitch less about his inadequacies.

 

[RaptorRulz]

Yet we have more playoff experiences and have made it to the finals... We lost to the Spurs who were about to embark on a dynasty with injuries to Ewing and LJ. There is no superiority complex...it's pure fact. NYC is greater than any Canadian city in almost every way. YOur country already lost one of it's NBA franchises to Memphis of all places!




New York was number one for many years and still retains the # 2 spot even after a horrible decade. To be the one team repping an entire country yet 11th on the list is pathetic.



Great...we all know Curry was a waste and our previous management sucked. That is our recent history not our HISTORY.

Our history consists of several hall of fame players, two championships countless playoff experiences and paving the way for new teams like the Craptors to emerge into a league the Knicks played a part in creating.

The Craptors history consists of ZERO finals appearances and losing one talented player after another. From 2002-2006 your team sucked too! They will suck again once Bosh is gone.



They have the opposite of stability. They sucked until they got Carter...he left. They sucked till they got McGrady...he left. They sucked until they got Bosh...he WILL LEAVE. You cannot retain marquee players nor are you winning anything anytime soon. Keep dreaming...



Bosh is gone and I bet money on that! Soon to be followed by Derozen.




The Knicks can offer a max deal and very close to what the Craptors can offer. One NYC endorsement deal will make up for the rest. Further we offer Bosh an opportunity to play on a big stage and make a name for himself. Again, all your talent leaves and that is not coincidence. YOur city and your team does not have what it takes to attact and retain super stars. You don't wait for free agents because none will come. The Craptors have drafted well because they have sucked and could not sign FA talent to lift them out of the lottery. It's a pattern, draft talent, play well, lose talent...right back in the lottery. Like I said, the NBA's D league.

You offer a great synopsis, very well detailed and appears you spent some time on this. Honestly I thought the Raptors would be lower in value, but I'd take 11th spot, being ahead of teams like Orlando, and Miami is a great thing, along witht he dozen or so teams behind the Raptors, all this at a tenth of the population is a great thing. And lets be honest, the Knicks are worth that much not because they are a great Basketball team as they, there worth that much because you have a population base of 8M plus to gather from which means cable rights,mechandising etc. at least with the lakers they have multiple recent championships to add value.Knicks value is not based on success on the floor that's a fact. How many titles has this storied fanchise won in their existence...2?? and that's acceptable in the Mecca?? I think not.

And I agree totally you have had hall of fame players...Reed, Frazier, Ewing .. LEGENDS that's a given no arguement form me, But the really really bad players you've had has eclipsed your hall of fame players by a country mile, again not acceptable for Mecca.

As for Carter he quit on this team and good riddence... a quitter has no business on any NBA team point blank. And you've seen how his career has unfolded, Mcgardy left cause he wanted to be the man somewhere else,not uncommon in the NBA today, bad timing that Vince and Tmac 2 superstars arrived at the same time. we dealt with it and moved on. And were in a much better posistion now. We have I think one of the best if not best GM's in the game, otherwise the Knicks would not of been sniffing around for BC.

NY has been a lottery team for quite some time, instead of cultivating young talent to pair with superstars FAs you traded these valuable picks for over-priced over hyped, marginal talent at best. again FACT.

If Bosh decides to leave it will most probablly be a sign and trade, and he would prefer to go to a team that has more talent and upside then the current Knicks make up. You're not gonna sign a superstar by saying look how much we're worth on Forbes or whatever... LBJ, Bosh want titles or so they claim, and Bosh has a better chance currently with the Raptors, and LBJ with the Cavs. again FACT.

Again I appreciate your input, you are a true fan of your team and respect that, but saying I bet on this that so and so will be gone, is fruitless... I can say I bet that the only FA's you'll end up getting is Joe Johnson, and amare who are very good players but not on the same level as the two mentioned earlier but we don't know what will happen.

Using just the good in your history to make points about the present and future and not recoginze the ineptetude of the past decade should not be overlooked.

Raptors have been around for only 15 years.. well see in year 40-50 where we stand amongst the other NBA teams.

 

[clumsy]

IF we can somehow put David Lee next to Brendan Haywood i like that a lot for 16-17 mil.

And Please don't talk like race doens't matter. It's why i love Simmons...he keeps it real he sure does cheer hard for white American players and that is his god given right as a White American.

I just don't like people who don't keep it real about race. White people are too afraid of being called the R word (i'm not white but...i dont' care if people think i'm racist).