We win....Its the Players. We lose, its the coach. smh

[TR1LL10N]

They also work in a system that plays to their strengths and doesn't press the ball up and down the court...

Exactly, defense! Defense. It will make a team better.... The players we had were to fit in with D'Antoni's system.... Galli was a pretty good one on one defender. Chandler's defense was pretty good, too. We have TD who plays his heart out, and Felton was no slouch....

We didn't have a big, but when your big is Hawes... really? You might as well be without a big... hahaha. I kid. Hawes is a good guy -- horrible player.

Brand is undersized and not a good defender. Young is known for slashing abilities, not his defense.

Right and so do the Knicks. Hence why we HAVE A BETTER RECORD! They play to their strengths which is defense and we played to ours which is offense.

I am not sure what will happen post trade because are strengths look to be half court with Melo and Billups so with the addition of JJ we may just slow it down...again, adapting and playing to your ROSTERS strength.

I would also like a response to my points about Thib netting us less games this year had he been coach.

 

[TR1LL10N]

eace:

And no Finals appearance... Win games, not rings.

Sigh...only 2 teams a year make it. Only one team a year wins a ring. Having a system get you to the WC finals 3 times means you are a conteder and have the possibility to win a chip. They ran into a Spurs and LA dynasty and also had Amare and DIaw suspended after being up 2-1 on the Spurs. (the Spurs won that year)

Again, Riley and JVG did not win a chip in NYC yet they both focused on defense. Does that mean their systems were flawed. Stop before you parse and say well they made the finals and D'ant didnt. Suns could have made the finals had things gone there way too.

 

[Clyde & The Pearl]

I agree. He should be fired, because he hates winning. He is trying to become a Hall of Fame coach by intentionally losing games.

Sarcasm? Explain to me what MDA did in the 2nd half when Dwight was abusing Williams. What did he do when Nelson started goig nuts. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Seems to me IMHO a smart coach would look to get those guys under control. You know maybe change the lineup. Maybe scheme to get the ball out of Nelsons hands. Something different. But he didnt. He thought he could out offense them.

It didnt work last night, and by rule it wont work at least 50% of the time against good teams.

 

[KBlack25]

Sarcasm? Explain to me what MDA did in the 2nd half when Dwight was abusing Williams. What did he do when Nelson started goig nuts. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Seems to me IMHO a smart coach would look to get those guys under control. You know maybe change the lineup. Maybe scheme to get the ball out of Nelsons hands. Something different. But he didnt. He thought he could out offense them.

It didnt work last night, and by rule it wont work at least 50% of the time against good teams.

By what rule?

 

[TR1LL10N]

Sarcasm? Explain to me what MDA did in the 2nd half when Dwight was abusing Williams. What did he do when Nelson started goig nuts. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Seems to me IMHO a smart coach would look to get those guys under control. You know maybe change the lineup. Maybe scheme to get the ball out of Nelsons hands. Something different. But he didnt. He thought he could out offense them.

It didnt work last night, and by rule it wont work at least 50% of the time against good teams.

HEY!!! You are learning!!!!!eace:

 

[KBlack25]

HEY!!! You are learning!!!!!eace:

Lollerskates. He finally got sarcasm. I think there should be a diploma ceremony.

 

[MusketeerX]

Right and so do the Knicks. Hence why we HAVE A BETTER RECORD! They play to their strengths which is defense and we played to ours which is offense.

I am not sure what will happen post trade because are strengths look to be half court with Melo and Billups so with the addition of JJ we may just slow it down...again, adapting and playing to your ROSTERS strength.

I would also like a response to my points about Thib netting us less games this year had he been coach.

We barely have a better record, and we have/had a superior team... Its not just the players that matters. It is the coach too.

Ifs and buts regarding PHX never making it to the finals. The truth of the matter is that they couldn't consistently beat elite teams because of lack of defense.

Knicks would have won if Starks shot more than 2 for 18 and Charles Smith could hit a lay up. But they didn't win. At least they got to the finals...

On Defense.

 

[iSaYughh]

Good god...

Ya, D'ant really hated Barron...making him a starter down the stretch...and, da da daaa...fostering him to average a double double.

And get picked up by the Suns.

Hey, what happened when he was with the D'ant'less Suns this year? Riight.

And lol @ this Steve Nash history revisionism. I'm going to shred this shit up in a bit, copy an op I did on Nash's career, which Trill incidentally expounded on further, that will dissect this as plainly as a nobel scientist to a frog.

Diaw, Barbosa, Nash, Amare, Marion (and others). How's bustola Frye been in a MDA based system?

MDA shook up and ignited the league single handily when he was with the Suns.

Clear as day bad luck, epic incompetence and cheapness by ownership, the vagaries of a post season, and a prime Spurs dynasty stymied a would-be dynasty.

Please show me these great defensive coaches who don't have at least...one elite defender and a bonefied quality 5.

Bulls? Lmao. Deng, an otherworldly defender at the 3; Noah, one of the best rebounders and most defensively versatile and intense 5s in the game; a rebounding machine in Boozer.

MDA would run circles around Thib if he was manning

Rose
Korver/etc
Deng
Boozer
Noah

If Thib..or virtually any other coach was here..ya, we'd be "better" defensively; we'd lose a lot prettier. And we'd be utterly mediocre with zero shot of instilling fear in any good team in the playoffs.

Which MDA overcame, and achieved for us, even prior to Melo's arrival.

 

[moneyg]

Not stressing defense is very different then what Amare stated. He said he was not taught defense until Terry Porter. It's crap! He was being attacked for his weakness on defense and deflected...period! Look it up.

BTW, Porter was canned and Gentry was brought in to implement D'ants system! It netted them 54 wins and a trip to WC finals...

the eastern conference has always been about defense... this west coast offense wont cut it..

this is the EAST.....where defense is rules

ship O'antoni out west

 

[TR1LL10N]

We barely have a better record, and we have/had a superior team... Its not just the players that matters. It is the coach too.

We had injuries, two rookies and a brand new squad that took some time to gel. Think about how our record would be had not gone on that losing streak early in season when our team was learning to play with one another. Of course a coach matters, who said it didn't? I laid out why I think D'ant is a good fit for our roster and why a defensive coach would be a bad idea.

Please tell us all with logic, reasoning and proof why you think changes coaches could have made an undersized team with it's best defenders injured play good defense and thrive.

Ifs and buts regarding PHX never making it to the finals. The truth of the matter is that they couldn't consistently beat elite teams because of lack of defense.

Knicks would have won if Starks shot more than 2 for 18 and Charles Smith could hit a lay up. But they didn't win. At least they got to the finals...

Oh I get it...you can excuse the Knicks for not winning a chip while in the same post talk about "ifs" and "buts" with the Suns! :thumbsup: BTW, the Susns had to beat elite teams to make it to the WC finals...

 

[iSaYughh]

Dude...East and West is just a geographic footnote. It has zero bearing on an actual team, and their ability to win.

If we suddenly were in a Western conference....Vegas odds makers and analysts won't start collectively jizzzing, and think "shit sons, NOW these boys got a chance and BELONG"

Maybe the East is more defensive now. Just arbitrary. In a few years it could just as easily be reversed.

A team is what it is. It doesn't matter what labels and emotional connections get placed on them. A defensive team, an offensive team...

Either you are better and can beat the other guys, or not. You score more points, you win.

Style points work in run ways, not fights and sports.

 

[TR1LL10N]

eace:

And no Finals appearance... Win games, not rings.

FYI, losing to the eventual world champs is nothing to be ashamed of. Remember that the Spurs swept the defensive Cavs who had Lebron James anchoring their squad. Remember that LA beat Boston who is know for their defense. To damn an entire system because they did not beat the eventual world champs...dynasties I might add is absurd!

P.S. Why can't it just be that the Spurs and Lakers were BETTER teams then the Suns? Why does it have to be blamed on the coach? Just a thought!

 

[MusketeerX]

We had injuries, two rookies and a brand new squad that took some time to gel. Think about how our record would be had not gone on that losing streak early in season when our team was learning to play with one another. Of course a coach matters, who said it didn't? I laid out why I think D'ant is a good fit for our roster and why a defensive coach would be a bad idea.

Please tell us all with logic, reasoning and proof why you think changes coaches could have made an undersized team with it's best defenders injured play good defense and thrive.



Oh I get it...you can excuse the Knicks for not winning a chip while in the same post talk about "ifs" and "buts" with the Suns! :thumbsup: BTW, the Susns had to beat elite teams to make it to the WC finals...

I brought up the Knicks to prove my point that it didn't happen so we move on. The Suns couldn't beat the best. Plain and simple.


Look at the Celts who are have been undersized all year round because of injuries. Look at the Spurs, who besides Duncan, are undersized. Look at the Bulls who are undersized (no Noah). Look at the Thunder, who didn't have that beefy center.

We lost some n the beginning because of unfamiliarity. Then we lost more because our guys were beat halfway through the season with 41 more games to play.

The system is bad. Our defense would better with a different coach and we would have one more games with a different coach like Tom.

The Sixers are undersized as well... They are still winning. Spencer Hawes is ... well Spencer Hawes. That guy just sucks.

All better teams than ours. Thats my evidence.

What injuries??? Our team played all year round. All teams have injuries. The only difference is that because they have 10 man rotations there is always a guys who has played in games to effectively fill in their spot until the starter returns.

 

[MusketeerX]

FYI, losing to the eventual world champs is nothing to be ashamed of. Remember that the Spurs swept the defensive Cavs who had Lebron James anchoring their squad. Remember that LA beat Boston who is know for their defense. To damn an entire system because they did not beat the eventual world champs...dynasties I might add is absurd!

P.S. Why can't it just be that the Spurs and Lakers were BETTER teams then the Suns? Why does it have to be blamed on the coach? Just a thought!

Lakers are an above average defensive team. LBJ had himself and no one else... God Bless Him.

 

[iSaYughh]

We had injuries, two rookies and a brand new squad that took some time to gel. Think about how our record would be had not gone on that losing streak early in season when our team was learning to play with one another. Of course a coach matters, who said it didn't? I laid out why I think D'ant is a good fit for our roster and why a defensive coach would be a bad idea.

Please tell us all with logic, reasoning and proof why you think changes coaches could have made an undersized team with it's best defenders injured play good defense and thrive.



Oh I get it...you can excuse the Knicks for not winning a chip while in the same post talk about "ifs" and "buts" with the Suns! :thumbsup: BTW, the Susns had to beat elite teams to make it to the WC finals...

:teeth: good god...

The PHO Sun's having their starting (and premier) 4 and 5s get suspended up 2-1, and riding high is a pure fact laced with ramifications that are beyond obvious.

History lesson: MDA made PHO a relevant juggernaut, multiple league leader in wins, and had many (who predictably run like Forrest to a new goal post and position out of convenience and front-running sheep) convinced that they were on the cusp of *revolutionizing* the NBA.

PHO ownership made *multiple* cheap, indefensible, regressive moves DURING D'antoni's championship PHO window. Another FACT.

These aren't generalizations about some players maybe shooting better or hitting layups and maybe winning.

It's declarative facts with very obvious implications attached to them. Not even taking into account the backdrop of MDA Suns beating elite teams and facing a prime Spurs dynasty as ultimate test.

Pitiful that his PHO tenure has been warped into a talking point to be used *against* him!

 

[iSaYughh]

FYI, losing to the eventual world champs is nothing to be ashamed of. Remember that the Spurs swept the defensive Cavs who had Lebron James anchoring their squad. Remember that LA beat Boston who is know for their defense. To damn an entire system because they did not beat the eventual world champs...dynasties I might add is absurd!

P.S. Why can't it just be that the Spurs and Lakers were BETTER teams then the Suns? Why does it have to be blamed on the coach? Just a thought!

Too true....Those Suns had outcasts, aged vets who had peaked, and raw talent. MDA made hall of famers, all stars, and effective players out of MANY. Lets take a guess how dangerous those Suns would have been without MDA.....

It's a testament TO his skills as a coach and pioneer that they WERE that good and accredited.

Either way, MDA has a long career ahead of him -- likely with the Knicks. If his past pedigree is any indicator,

We have an excellent and as good a shot as we ever could to contend for, and be able to win titles.

 

[iSaYughh]

Lakers are an above average defensive team. LBJ had himself and no one else... God Bless Him.

How'd they get above average? Maybe walking into two 7footers, Odom, and getting a defensive expert in Artest?

That's players, versus coach.

You think if we plug in Gasol-Bynum for our 5, and Odom for our 4, and had Artest flying off as our 6th, we wouldn't be enormously improved defensively? (and otherwise)

And how'd the great Jackson get your respect and co-signing as a great coach?

Maybe having two top-tier HOF'ers, and walking into the most devastatingly effective Center of all time during those championship runs?

 

[Knicksfansince92]

Anyone that can't see PHo had a horrible FO and Dantoni actually made all their players better are stupid. This is the same FO that let Amare walk after a WCF trip and proceed to spend $80milllion between Frye/Dudley/Warrick when they could have reloaded with Amare and added turkoglo with Jrich.

Dantoni is known as a player coach and a offensive genius, everyone in the league sees this. Does he stress defense as much? Maybe not but that is not the system that he uses he uses a high octane high possesion run and gun system, that works way better when the team forces TO. Go back and look at some of the Stats for the PHO teams yeah they were 15th in Defense but they also shot 65% as a team. No way they do that under another coach, so he does desereve his credit.


And last night might have been the best job I've seen him do so far he played a 11man rotation and the guys that weren't giving it he subbed out, he helped spell minutes for all of our Key players that night and used multiple bigs on Howard and had guys double him in the 2nd half( had 6pts for that whole half) and who thought Jameer was going to get 18 in the 4th after Chanuecy had him on lock no one but he got hot and hit some grab shots two 3's with Chaunecy dead in his face, what else do you want us to do, take out CB and let our offense suffer with Douglas or let them try to beat us with Nelson and not their star Dwight. 9/10 I will take Jammer trying to win the game than Dwight, this just happened to be the tenth time.

 

[MusketeerX]

How'd they get above average? Maybe walking into two 7footers, Odom, and getting a defensive expert in Artest?

That's players, versus coach.

You think if we plug in Gasol-Bynum for our 5, and Odom for our 4, and had Artest flying off as our 6th, we wouldn't be enormously improved defensively? (and otherwise)

And how'd the great Jackson get your respect and co-signing as a great coach?

Maybe having two top-tier HOF'ers, and walking into the most devastatingly effective Center of all time during those championship runs?

We would never have a team like the Lakers because D'Antoni doesn't want post players, and puts more focus on point guards. Jackson also knows the merits of defense and would never say I'm solely going to try and outscore my opponent.

D'Antoni would not play Artest... That is the coach.

D'Antoni helped to choose the players we ascertained... as they helped his system. He must live with the consequences of playing that system. But let us not detract from the point that the Celtics are undermanned and undersized this whole year are still topping the Eastern Conference. Let us not undermine what Doug Collins can do with a worse team than ours..

The fact that you guys stick so closely to him because D'Antoni took a team to the WCF and could never make the finals is beyond me. Jeff Van Gundy took us to the NBA Finals without our best player.

Do I expect more of D'Antoni, you bet I do.

As Toons agreed with, with Tommy, we'd have more wins. Because he preaches more than just one style.

D'Antoni is a one dimensional coach.

Almost only counts in horseshoes and grenades.

 

[knicksman20]

We would never have a team like the Lakers because D'Antoni doesn't want post players, and puts more focus on point guards. Jackson also knows the merits of defense and would never say I'm solely going to try and outscore my opponent.

D'Antoni would not play Artest... That is the coach.

D'Antoni helped to choose the players we ascertained... as they helped his system. He must live with the consequences of playing that system. But let us not detract from the point that the Celtics are undermanned and undersized this whole year are still topping the Eastern Conference. Let us not undermine what Doug Collins can do with a worse team than ours..

The fact that you guys stick so closely to him because D'Antoni took a team to the WCF and could never make the finals is beyond me. Jeff Van Gundy took us to the NBA Finals without our best player.

Do I expect more of D'Antoni, you bet I do.

As Toons agreed with, with Tommy, we'd have more wins. Because he preaches more than just one style.

D'Antoni is a one dimensional coach.

Almost only counts in horseshoes and grenades.

Exactly. It's funny how some blame Donnie Walsh for bringing in the these players when you know DA had MUCH input as to who he wants on this team.