We win....Its the Players. We lose, its the coach. smh

[Red]

back to my original point. its the players more than the coach. If we had a defensive minded centre and a backup pg, we are right in the mix of things. do you agree or disagree?

do you think that with a complete team, our coach is still incapable of winning a playoff series, or even winning it all?

When answering what question exactly? For clarification...

IF the question is "who can make a larger impact on a team, a player or a coach"? Then I could see where you're coming from. After all a player effectively equals 20% of the tangible assets on the floor at any given period.

IF the question is "why do MDA teams look poor defensively" (or something to that effect) then that really doesn't address ALL the factors involved and is an easy lame excuse. Especially when a proper analysis which encompasses many players, coaches, factors, and situations is done.

That to me isn't the entire accurate answer and it's common knowledge MDA and his philosophies play a major part.

Nash Stats:

Yeah he only became great when he was in Phoenix. His assists went up because he was in a system that has more possessions and keeps the ball in his hands more. You will also notice his turnovers went up... BECAUSE HE HAD THE BALL IN HIS HANDS MORE. His percentage going up can be explained by having Amar'e.

Let me also note, however, that MDA is not an effective offensive coach... he is. I'm just saying more possessions are going to push up numbers... good and bad.

:aplause: I have to say, your posts are impressive.

MDA just admitted today and confirmed his awareness that his offensive system inflates stats and as he said can be used to increase a players value to as he put it "get rid of him". There's no doubting it and its obvious using his approach.

But as I will keep saying so as to not be "spun"-

It matters NOT how a coach gets it done. Yell, scream, preach, draw, sh*t in front of his players- however vernacular you choose as description; the question is IS THE METHOD EFFECTIVE? DOES IT TRANSLATE TO POSITIVE RESULTS? IS THERE A POSITIVE IMPACT USING SAID METHODS?

As we all know including those who support like Trill...

The Current Answer Is Reflected In A Simple Stat... 27th (was 28th) OVERALL. Regardless of explanation that won't get it done.

No I don't agree with it and it's quite a simple concept. We are an undersized poor defensive team based on our roster not because we have a coach who doesn't prioritize it over offense.

* Coach has say so in player acquisition correct?
* Coach preaches, teaches, yells, goes over, defense correct?
* Coach is in charge of rotations and match-ups based on his approach correct?
* Regardless of our perceived priority, we are 27th overall correct?

You are partially correct, it's not just because we have a coach who doesn't prioritize defense, it's a myriad of issues under his control

Changing to a coach that would try to slow down the game and rely on defensive stops when we don't have the players for it would be disastrous! Think about relying on an undersized squad to play a half court grind out game! We already got exploited enough in the paint now you want to exacerbate that issue. The fact that we were able to run, inflate the score, dictate the tempo and spread the floor was the only way our squad was capable of winning. (pre-trade)

I'm really disappointed. I think your support may have clouded your judgement. I'm not sure you fully thought this first line out, and all the consequences.

The fact that we run, inflate the score, also results in inflated positions for the enemy who as you admitted WE CANT STOP. Use your logic and knowledge of prior and current contenders.

Further, the system you speak of directly lead to Felton having a borderline all-star year which directly correlates to our wins. If you look at Fleton's production in the beginning of the year when he was learning the system you will see us struggling. Then we became one of the hottest teams in the league and Feltons increased production was evident. Once he suffered an ankle injury and went into a slump we struggled again. Had Felton been putting up the same numbers he did his entire career one can conclude we would not have won as many games.

In conclusion, no I think Thib would have struggled and our record would have been worse had we tried to be a defensive team instead of playing to the rosters strong points. Further, we would have lost games had Felton put up his traditional numbers like the ones under another defensive oriented coach.

This is an example of being one sided and unfair. Yes we can assume had Felton not put up the same numbers we would not have won as many games- after-all he did log minutes, so he would be partly responsible as anyone else, but there's no mention of how that approach affected our defensive statistics, health, or a mention that the assumption is just as likely we would have had more wins using a different approach as it is not a fact.


If and when coach wins, it's most likely be as a result of changing his approach, either voluntary or forced, IMHO.

 

[MusketeerX]

When answering what question exactly? For clarification...


:aplause: I have to say, your posts are impressive.

MDA just admitted today and confirmed his awareness that his offensive system inflates stats and as he said can be used to increase a players value to as he put it "get rid of him". There's no doubting it and its obvious using his approach.

Thanks Red. Feel the same away about your posts.

 

[knicksman20]

On a side note Anthony Randolph had 19pts 10 boards & 1 block in 25 min. His first game getting substantial minutes & he puts up those numbers.

 

[MusketeerX]

On a side note Anthony Randolph had 19pts 10 boards & 1 block in 25 min. His first game getting substantial minutes & he puts up those numbers.

He has a lot of potential... Too bad he never got a chance to show it for the Knicks... I wish him the best.

 

[mafra]

I have no clue how we won last night despite MD? I mean, did he play 15 players? JUST KIDING FOLKS>

Anyway... I think fate will match CHI-NY in the first round. Teams are pretty much equal in talent. Let's see who wins? Thibby's defensive-mindedness or the beautiful mind that is MD's offensive prowess? Game on. Settle this once and for all.

 

[Toons]

this thread is pretty quiet after last night.

and OMG @ randolph..... we traded

felton, chandler, randolph, gallinari, mozgov, curry's contract, a first round pick.....for melo and billups

 

[mafra]

this thread is pretty quiet after last night.

and OMG @ randolph..... we traded

felton, chandler, randolph, gallinari, mozgov, curry's contract, a first round pick.....for melo and billups

I think you forgot the 2 second round picks we threw in. But, hey... we got Balkman, Carter and Shelden Williams.

 

[Blas]

Mike D said this last night:

?They know if we get better defensively, we?ll be tough in the playoffs. We?ll be a tough out.??Knicks coach Mike D?Antoni, on getting his star-studded lineup to make a consistent defensive commitment.

 

[KnickfanaticinGA]

Mike D said this last night:

?They know if we get better defensively, we?ll be tough in the playoffs. We?ll be a tough out.??Knicks coach Mike D?Antoni, on getting his star-studded lineup to make a consistent defensive commitment.

Yeah I watched NBA channel this morning and the interview with TD after the game was all about defense and coach stressing d. Looks like D'Antoni is listening to us a little bit.

Don't worry Dant, I'll give you come credit for these wins! :beer:

 

[mafra]

Yeah I watched NBA channel this morning and the interview with TD after the game was all about defense and coach stressing d. Looks like D'Antoni is listening to us a little bit.

Don't worry Dant, I'll give you come credit for these wins! :beer:

Look at DONNIE in the background. Does he get credit too?

When was the last time y'all went to a game and chanted/cheered for the coach? People act like it's so shocking, or unique to coach, that he catches crap from fans.

 

[knicksman20]

It shouldn't be too much of a surprise for any of us that since we brought in new players plus a veteran PG that has a championship & now the team stressing defense. I'll give credit to DA because it seems he's listening to his players. With that said, I hope he changes his offensive philosophy a bit & adds more half court post ups/iso's to maximize what Melo does best. That'll open up more opportunities & easier baskets for the team.

 

[moneyg]

It shouldn't be too much of a surprise for any of us that since we brought in new players plus a veteran PG that has a championship & now the team stressing defense. I'll give credit to DA because it seems he's listening to his players. With that said, I hope he changes his offensive philosophy a bit & adds more half court post ups/iso's to maximize what Melo does best. That'll open up more opportunities & easier baskets for the team.

agreed....

he has no choice.. also walsh stated that O'antoni admitted that he had to tweek his style of play to utilize the current players skill set....


he has to change.. if not he is out of here.... 107pt a win with defense...106 pts a loss with no defense.. its that simple...

 

[MusketeerX]

For whatever the reason, he is slowing down the offense, he is emphasizing D and it seems to be working out quite well. I give credit to him for that. As long as SSOL is pushed to the side and defense does become a priority, I'm fine with him.

 

[moneyg]

For whatever the reason, he is slowing down the offense, he is emphasizing D and it seems to be working out quite well. I give credit to him for that. As long as SSOL is pushed to the side and defense does become a priority, I'm fine with him.

agreed....

 

[Toons]

It shouldn't be too much of a surprise for any of us that since we brought in new players plus a veteran PG that has a championship & now the team stressing defense. I'll give credit to DA because it seems he's listening to his players. With that said, I hope he changes his offensive philosophy a bit & adds more half court post ups/iso's to maximize what Melo does best. That'll open up more opportunities & easier baskets for the team.

really? you really feel that he the players came in and said coach, stress defense, and he listened to them and started to stress defense? woooow....we now have players that play defense...we now have better pieces. a good coach gets the best out of his pieces. and that is what the coach is doing now.

 

[jimkcchief88]

really? you really feel that he the players came in and said coach, stress defense, and he listened to them and started to stress defense? woooow....we now have players that play defense...we now have better pieces. a good coach gets the best out of his pieces. and that is what the coach is doing now.

I agree and again the biggest difference: NO COCK!!! Gallo was way too streaky on the offensive end to get big minutes let alone starter minutes, and was a liability on the defensive end to boot. Same goes for Felton. Its amazing that our "nobody's" on the bench can come in cold turkey and hit the shots some of our former starters couldn't. A perceived weakness becomes a strength. I was critical of D'ant for his godson debacle, but his coaching strengths are coming thru now.....

 

[moneyg]

really? you really feel that he the players came in and said coach, stress defense, and he listened to them and started to stress defense? woooow....we now have players that play defense...we now have better pieces. a good coach gets the best out of his pieces. and that is what the coach is doing now.

toons r u serious... before the the trade...many of yall was saying that the trade helps us zero on defense....so now all of the sudden we got better defensive players....

he know that he has less influence in the organization now than he did in the past..

he knows ny wants defense.. the city is built on hard nose...tough work ethis.... not his fancy fancy SSOL

 

[MusketeerX]

toons r u serious... before the the trade...many of yall was saying that the trade helps us zero on defense....so now all of the sudden we got better defensive players....

he know that he has less influence in the organization now than he did in the past..

he knows ny wants defense.. the city is built on hard nose...tough work ethis.... not his fancy fancy SSOL

That is actually a really good point. Our players are tech worse individual defenders. Melo was supposed to be a worse defender than Chandler. Galli had his moments of great one on one defense. Felton is a better defender than Billups. We lost our 7'1 center.

Billups made some telling comments we discussed in another thread, and all of a sudden the offense slows down.

For 7+ years D'Antoni runs his offense one way. All of a sudden we get some veteran players that actually have influence, and D'Antoni's tune changes???

Toons, if you are right, that is one helluva a coincidence.

 

[knicksman20]

really? you really feel that he the players came in and said coach, stress defense, and he listened to them and started to stress defense? woooow....we now have players that play defense...we now have better pieces. a good coach gets the best out of his pieces. and that is what the coach is doing now.

Why else is there such an emphasis on the defensive end at this particular time when there hasn't been? Chauncey was the first to say it in interviews when he joined them. melo & Amare started echoing the same thing & then DA starts talking more about defense. I've NEVER heard DA speak this much about defense in the past. IMO DA knows to keep the locker (and his job) he needs to concede some & keep his star players happy. He knows if it comes down to it, he'll get fired before the Knicks trade away Amare or Melo.

 

[Clyde & The Pearl]

Why else is there such an emphasis on the defensive end at this particular time when there hasn't been? Chauncey was the first to say it in interviews when he joined them. melo & Amare started echoing the same thing & then DA starts talking more about defense. I've NEVER heard DA speak this much about defense in the past. IMO DA knows to keep the locker (and his job) he needs to concede some & keep his star players happy. He knows if it comes down to it, he'll get fired before the Knicks trade away Amare or Melo.

:agreed: I dont understand why we have to try to change history when it comes to MDA. it is what it is. From the Billups interview going forward the Knicks have been talking defense like they work for the Pentagon. Lets just hope it continues...