You Have to Deal Melo AND Amar'e, Then We Can Build Around Lin

[iSaYughh]

Lol @ people thinking we'd have to build around Lin in the above situation.

The arguments against Orange -- well, at least the part I agreed with, I haven't read the entirety of the thread yet -- are pure logical fallacy.

The pt is, which almost everyone is evading, is what gives us a better chance at winning a title?

Where we currently are (and don't delude yourself into thinking we have more than a 3yr window, at the most, before we rebuild by force and under much less favorable terms),

or if we traded Amare and Melo -- and we can even assume that all we get back is their salary cap.

The pt is, in 3 years after no championships, and we rebuild by force, we could actually have a legit chance if we actually built a real contender (which we don't currently have, barring what I initially said: a miracle like Nash vet min signing).

 

[fender0577]

It's a matter of fit. McGee in Denver is suddenly not the silly bum loser but a quickly maturing beast animal. Bease in New York under a guy like Kobe would do him a world of good and he can fill the complimentary role he is really cut out to be rather than trying to fit the great expectations of being a number 1 guy.

It might be a reach to expect the Lakers to deal Kobe, but I think the trade makes a lot of sense to them, if not this year but after next season when there is an extra year on Kobe's legs.

It's a scenario for Lakers where you will have a Melo that should be entering his peak and maybe Phil Jackson would come back for this and make a man out of Melo. I like that fit for them.

Kobe fits us in so many ways. He's the All-Time Great we've never really had. He is the winning, veteran, no non-sense leader that raises everyone around him on the hardwoods. At 34 next season, Kobe still has years of very strong basketball.

Minny, Amar'e is good for them giving them a veteran. They cash in on the talent and put Amar'e in the best environment for him to succeed, he is a good fit with Rubio and Love who will spread the floor and dish all day and play really good team ball. It's what Amar'e thrives in.

How is this a good deal for us, you just said MELO entering his prime, while kobe is turning 34= downside of his career.You say kobe can turn bease around, then why couldn't wade do the same, Like KBLACK said, you knock MELOS focus, but you want to bring in bease, the weed smoking dude, who couldn't live up to that #3 draft pick MIA wasted on him, no thanks.

 

[orangeblobman]

How is this a good deal for us, you just said MELO entering his prime, while kobe is turning 34= downside of his career.You say kobe can turn bease around, then why couldn't wade do the same, Like KBLACK said, you knock MELOS focus, but you want to bring in bease, the weed smoking dude, who couldn't live up to that #3 draft pick MIA wasted on him, no thanks.

He's on the downside but he fits the role we need on the team, given the roster balance. It's just a good combination that isn't trying to do too much, it's all in the balance.

Not saying anyone will "turn around" Bease, but he would be coming into a strictly defined role and I think this is what he will benefit from. And certainly Kobe's gigantic presence will go a long way to keep Bease in check.

But in reality Bease has toned it down a lot lately and seems to be largely over his hang-ups at this point. I don't see this as a serious problem.

 

[KBlack25]

Lol @ people thinking we'd have to build around Lin in the above situation.

The arguments against Orange -- well, at least the part I agreed with, I haven't read the entirety of the thread yet -- are pure logical fallacy.

The pt is, which almost everyone is evading, is what gives us a better chance at winning a title?

Where we currently are (and don't delude yourself into thinking we have more than a 3yr window, at the most, before we rebuild by force and under much less favorable terms),

or if we traded Amare and Melo -- and we can even assume that all we get back is their salary cap.

The pt is, in 3 years after no championships, and we rebuild by force, we could actually have a legit chance if we actually built a real contender (which we don't currently have, barring what I initially said: a miracle like Nash vet min signing).

But we won't get back their salary cap.

We have to take in at least a large portion of what we send out - and our resources would go to guys like Beasley (really?!!?), Pekovic, and Kobe who makes more than Melo or Amare.

Orange's arugment is that we should dump two guys who DO have talent (whether it lives up to the price tag or not) to build around an unproven PG.

 

[orangeblobman]

what was the record before linsanity? would we have even made the playoffs?

I honestly think that without linsanity happening and renewing the fire of the team. The Knicks would not have made it to the playoffs. Let's say maybe 9th spot. That would've been an epic fail. Considering that, would everyone here think that the Knicks needed melo and amare time to mesh for next season?

Let's be honest, the Knicks were total fail before this linsanity thing happened. Nothing to do with supporting lin or not

Agreed, without Linsanity dropping from the sky I'm not sure how the season turns out. We can never know, because maybe they fire D'Antoni sooner but that's no guarantee that the team would win a few games.

Lin was the driving factor behind the Linsanity streak but also an important part of Woodsanity later in the season.

 

[iSaYughh]

But we won't get back their salary cap.

We have to take in at least a large portion of what we send out - and our resources would go to guys like Beasley (really?!!?), Pekovic, and Kobe who makes more than Melo or Amare.

Orange's arugment is that we should dump two guys who DO have talent (whether it lives up to the price tag or not) to build around an unproven PG.

Ah, kk.

I haven't been able to read whole thread in detail -- and ya, in real life (not theoretical "what would be better"), we wouldn't be able to trade Melo/Amare for pure salary cap relief, especially with new CBA and the punishments on bloated contracts and luxury tax, so you're right.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I do believe the miracle of Nash signing for a vet min is possible. Idk how he feels about Woodson, vs MDA, but I think it's possible regardless. The coaching switch could ward him off, but who knows.

Outside of Nash for vet min, we are going to need a ton of mitzvah (Chandler staying healthy like he did this season; Amare's health and playing pretty well; Melo completing full Paul Pierce maturation transformation), and Lin being a bona fide all-star player, to be a legit contender, though.

It'll be another interesting season, either way. A lot rests on how Woodson decides to run the offense after a full off-season.

 

[orangeblobman]

Consider the 2008 Kidd-Harris trade.

Kidd was something like 34 or 35 years old at time and Harris was young and with potential. But the trade fit the situation Dallas was in and it worked out for them.

Cuban recognized that Kidd at that age was perfect for the role that the Mavs needed him in.

 

[KBlack25]

Consider the 2008 Kidd-Harris trade.

Kidd was something like 34 or 35 years old at time and Harris was young and with potential. But the trade fit the situation Dallas was in and it worked out for them.

Cuban recognized that Kidd at that age was perfect for the role that the Mavs needed him in.

What's your point?

The Mavs traded a young, unproven PG for Kidd, an aging vet to capitalize on a limited window of time they had to win a title.

I don't get how this situation is analogous.

 

[orangeblobman]

What's your point?

The Mavs traded a young, unproven PG for Kidd, an aging vet to capitalize on a limited window of time they had to win a title.

I don't get how this situation is analogous.

It's analogous because we would be trading a young, unproven Small Forward, but I think a few tiers above Devin Harris and with a huge upside if he can be controlled.

We would trade for an aging vet in Kobe that would provide a strong balance of youth and experience but also assembling a team with players that complement each other.

Tyson Chandler does not require anything to keep him happy on offense, he finds joy in being the defense beast animal.

Pekovic is young but gritty and with an edge that would be welcome here after Amar'e's waffles on defense.

Fields is fields, he plays team ball.

Kobe comes in and he is your anchor. Proven, an authority. An All-Time Great that has won many championships. There is no question about him handling New York. He's a great fit at this point in his career.

And Lin, Lin is Lin he is your point guard, benefiting a ton from Kobe. You stay with Lin for the next 10 years.

Windows are by definition limited. Mavs window is different from Knicks window. We also have a window if we make this deal, it comes with a window.

 

[KBlack25]

It's analogous because we would be trading a young, unproven Small Forward, but I think a few tiers above Devin Harris and with a huge upside if he can be controlled.

We would trade for an aging vet in Kobe that would provide a strong balance of youth and experience but also assembling a team with players that complement each other.

Tyson Chandler does not require anything to keep him happy on offense, he finds joy in being the defense beast animal.

Pekovic is young but gritty and with an edge that would be welcome here after Amar'e's waffles on defense.

Fields is fields, he plays team ball.

Kobe comes in and he is your anchor. Proven, an authority. An All-Time Great that has won many championships. There is no question about him handling New York. He's a great fit at this point in his career.

And Lin, Lin is Lin he is your point guard, benefiting a ton from Kobe. You stay with Lin for the next 10 years.

No it's not analogous. The Nets were not close to the title when they traded an aging vet for an unproven player. The Lakers finished with a 3 seed and probably will still move on to the next round.

The Mavs made their trade when they were doing well every season and were close to a title. We are not.

And at the end of the day, the Lakers are not trading Kobe, so your whole theory rests on some ridiculous unattainable pipedream, that wasn't a bright idea to begin with.

This whole thread is a joke. I can't believe a human with intelligence enough to type a sentence would really believe the things you are saying.

 

[orangeblobman]

No it's not analogous. The Nets were not close to the title when they traded an aging vet for an unproven player. The Lakers finished with a 3 seed and probably will still move on to the next round.

The Mavs made their trade when they were doing well every season and were close to a title. We are not.

And at the end of the day, the Lakers are not trading Kobe, so your whole theory rests on some ridiculous unattainable pipedream, that wasn't a bright idea to begin with.

This whole thread is a joke. I can't believe a human with intelligence enough to type a sentence would really believe the things you are saying.

I said that the trade makes more sense for them with every passing season. After next season is more realistic. So we would for one year have a Melo-Pekovic-Tyson frontcourt with Shumpdawg and Lin in the back. That's also a potent line up and we might not need to do the Kobe trade, who knows?

But that's the priority: Amar'e first for Peko, you wait a little bit so that they are softer on moving Kobe, and you send Melo.

 

[KBlack25]

I said that the trade makes more sense for them with every passing season. After next season is more realistic. So we would for one year have a Melo-Pekovic-Tyson frontcourt with Shumpdawg and Lin in the back. That's also a potent line up and we might not need to do the Kobe trade, who knows?

But that's the priority: Amar'e first for Peko, you wait a little bit so that they are softer on moving Kobe, and you send Melo.

The

Los

Angeles

Lakers

Are

NOT

Trading

Kobe

Bryant

 

[orangeblobman]

The chances are not currently great but they increase every season, because he is aging.

All-Time Greats have moved before late in career and this is not considered so earth shattering.

We can't just close something out because it does not immediately seem strong on the surface.

 

[KBlack25]

The chances are not currently great but they increase every season, because he is aging.

All-Time Greats have moved before late in career and this is not considered so earth shattering.

We can't just close something out because it does not immediately seem strong on the surface.

This is idiotic.

Think whatever you want, your opinions are unfounded, your plans are un-researched, and your ideas insanely moronic.

Keep holding onto your pipedream of trading Carmelo Anthony, who according to you is so bad in relation to his contract that we need to get rid of him, for Kobe "I Have More Rings Than Fit on One Hand" Bryant to build around a guy who has played in the league for 8 weeks.

I'll ground myself in reality.

 

[orangeblobman]

This is idiotic.

Think whatever you want, your opinions are unfounded, your plans are un-researched, and your ideas insanely moronic.

Keep holding onto your pipedream of trading Carmelo Anthony, who according to you is so bad in relation to his contract that we need to get rid of him, for Kobe "I Have More Rings Than Fit on One Hand" Bryant to build around a guy who has played in the league for 8 weeks.

I'll ground myself in reality.

So who would you trade him for?

The larger point is that Melo AND Amar'e should be traded, I offered just one solution.

The situation is ugly and it does not look good, I think both moves were mistakes (for Amar'e and Melo), and really, the two max guys pretty wack.

 

[KBlack25]

So who would you trade him for?

The larger point is that Melo AND Amar'e should be traded, I offered just one solution.

The situation is ugly and it does not look good, I think both moves were mistakes (for Amar'e and Melo), and really, the two max guys pretty wack.

We shouldn't trade either, not to build around Lin at least.

There are obviously guys in the league I'd trade either of them for - but not to then build around Lin.

 

[orangeblobman]

We shouldn't trade either, not to build around Lin at least.

There are obviously guys in the league I'd trade either of them for - but not to then build around Lin.

In another thread someone brought up 'building' with a player versus 'revolving' around one.

We're revolving around Melo, but with Lin you would build. This is the gist of the building around Lin.

Melo just isn't a guy you should revolve about, and anyway building with players is a better approach and results in better basketball than when you will revolve.

 

[KBlack25]

In another thread someone brought up 'building' with a player versus 'revolving' around one.

We're revolving around Melo, but with Lin you would build.

Melo just isn't a guy you should revolve about, and anyway building with players is a better approach and results in better basketball than when you will revolve.

What in God's name are you talking about?

 

[orangeblobman]

Lin
Kobe
Fields
Pekovic
Tyson
---
Shumpdawg?
JR?
Beasely?

 

[rogeryy]

Lin
Kobe
Fields
Pekovic
Tyson
---
Shumpdawg?
JR?
Beasely?

Dear KBlack,
8 weeks in NBA is, as a matter of fact, rather long. If you can't perform within 3 to 5 minutes, the coach will ask you out immediately.

Dear Orange,
Take what we have right now and work on it is much easier than trying to trade Melo and Amare. (Hope I didn't misunderstand you.) I say if Woodson (I voted for Woodson) can't make Melo a more teamwork player, let's make Phil Jackson our head coach. If PJax can't make Melo a more teamwork player either, then that's time I'd wish Melo gone.

Conclusion:
1. Thanks for all your discussions in this thread even though some of you think it's an idiotic thread.
2. Let's continue to support Lin and wish him perform even better next season.
3. Let's wish the right atmosphere, the right coach will appear at the right time, so we ourselves have a solid triangle to compete with any tough team next season. And next season. And next season.