I don't like Billiups!

[TR1LL10N]

I didn't have time to read your long winded response, but from the 1st couple of linesi think I see the issue:

1. I was saying when you say Billups doesn't fit Amare, that you've only really seen him in MDA's system- and that you might feel different when seeing him used in another.
You think Phil Jackson would use Amare the same?
You think Pop couldn't get Amare and Billups to work?

2. I think you (again) assume my motives, and I guess feel offended I didn't agree. But I wasn't arguing at all, just stating how the conclusions you drew and the logc you used is refutted by many factors including...

He was thriving before he got here for years
He was thriving before he tried implementing the system
He avg MORE than Felton in the beginning
SH*T, HE DROPPED 30 on MIA
His pedigree gives credence to the theory that its more a systemic issue than talent or lack of

3. And I'm wondering why not suggest him as a back up rather than "he's old, his skills don't fit with Amare"

No need to get defensive although we know that your m.o., really I wasn't getting at you at all when I resonded, so I'm wondering why you are so sensative.

Why haven't you considered how could he put up the numbers he did IF he wasn't a good fit?

MDA has a history of many things, I don't see you mentioning the entire picture. Once he's gone, you'll see.

So I'm supposed to debate someone who admits he did not read my post. I am sorry if half a page worth of text is too long for you...

 

[TR1LL10N]

You question my basketball IQ because I believe Billups is an upgrade right now over Felton??? LOLOLOL!!! Your argument was that Billups didn't fit with Amare (mind you after only 8 games and an injury) and Felton would be a better running mate. Felton has been really good for about 2 months while Billups is proven. Where's your IQ on that?

Billups is not an upgrade over Felton now or in the upcoming years and their stats back up my assertions. Yes, Bilups has experience and leadership but Felton has production. I will take production and wins over leadership and losses any day. Again, show me how Bilups stats and style is conducive to Amare over HIS CAREER NOT 8 games.

EDIT** I questioned your IQ when you made asinine statements phrased as a question like:

How is Billups not the right PG for Amare, Melo and the rest but he works just fine with players from DET and DEN??

That statement completely ignores the fact that certain players and styles compliment one another better than others and certain styles and players can actually clash. So you either were unaware of this truth therefore have a low bball IQ or were aware and chose to pose that question regardless of it making sense. Either way it was asinine and worth pointing out.

We're not talking about "years to come".

It was you who talked about them being rentals...Further I am allowed to talk about upside and potential when comparing two PG's and never limited my points to "NOW". You just made that up to dodge my points...

Silly since he needs time to get use to players tendencies on offense...same thing Felton had to do right?? Bottom line, who's the better PG? Who would teams rather have? (no contracts involved, just straight skill set) Answer that!

Well both Denver and NY would rather have Felton and that is clear so your point about hypothetical other teams is moot. Denver was the one insistent on Felton and NYC resisted...why? Because Billups is the better PG now? At this point in their careers Felton was playing better...period! Let alone contracts, styles, age and speed.

Yo and i don't care about winning or losing a debate. Like I said I just talk straight basketball. You can take the win and still be clueless.

I chose option C. I won the debate, demonstrated I was not clueless and exposed your silly debate tactics and diversions for all to see. BTW, if you truly didn't care you would not have mentioned it, linked an article or tried to attack me as being a hypocrite with regards to Gallo.

 

[TR1LL10N]

But...

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/3528/billups-i-hope-to-be-a-knick-in-2012

But...

Billups has made it clear that he does not want to play for the Knicks. Instead, the Colorado native wanted to end his professional career with his hometown Nuggets

The point guard has expressed his frustrations with the Nuggets, as he clearly did not want to get traded.

The Nuggets went as far as to apologize to Billups for trading him.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-chauncey-billups-ever-suit-up-for-the-knicks

His position is steadfast,” said Andy Miller, Billups’ agent. “I talked to him after practice [Saturday] and he expressed those thoughts. He doesn’t want to go anywhere. Even if it were a rebuilding situation, he’d prefer to be in Denver.”

Miller said “two or three” other teams also have expressed interest in Billups, but the former NBA Finals MVP wants to stay in his hometown. Billups was a high school star in Denver before playing at the University of Colorado. Billups’ wife, Piper, is his former high school sweetheart, his three daughters are attending school in Denver and his parents, brother and most childhood friends still live in the city. Billups is also active in the community, funding college scholarships for local students and running a basketball academy.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-billupstrade010811

Thats where he heart is. Of course, now after the fact he can't bash the team that is cutting his paycheck and holds sway over 11+ million of his dollars. (probably the last big payday of his NBA career)

So no, Billups would much rather be in Denver and it SEEMS like his heart is not in it. Do you see some passion that I am not seeing? Isee a PG going through the motions...not a fiery competitor thriving in NYC.

BTW, all those missed games for a thigh contusion during a playoff push!? Come on man! I am not an expert but a bruised thigh may be painful but he could have played through it if he was passionate about the Knicks. Yes, that is my assumption and I admit that but I have seen other players in the NBA and other sports play with much worse. Would Farve have sat with a contusion? Kobe? Doubt it!

 

[Red]

But...





http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-chauncey-billups-ever-suit-up-for-the-knicks



http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-billupstrade010811

Thats where he heart is. Of course, now after the fact he can't bash the team that is cutting his paycheck and holds sway over 11+ million of his dollars. (probably the last big payday of his NBA career)

So no, Billups would much rather be in Denver and it SEEMS like his heart is not in it. Do you see some passion that I am not seeing? Isee a PG going through the motions...not a fiery competitor thriving in NYC.

BTW, all those missed games for a thigh contusion during a playoff push!? Come on man! I am not an expert but a bruised thigh may be painful but he could have played through it if he was passionate about the Knicks. Yes, that is my assumption and I admit that but I have seen other players in the NBA and other sports play with much worse. Would Farve have sat with a contusion? Kobe? Doubt it!

Honestly Trill,

You lose respect with your logic and viewpoints. I think you're in the minority on this one.

Comparing Billups to Felton...? Wtf are you thinking?

Then this whole he doesn't want to be here sh*t? Guess what... MANY players have a preffered destination, what difference does that make?

Melo didntwat to be in Denver while he avg26 per, so what? Aren't they professionals. Isn't Billups the epitomy of a pro?

Sorry but you're trying to scapegoat Billups.

Its weak.

Is this because your ego is hurt because MDA is on the hot seat and your admission?

I guess this is your version of a rant. I had mine, yours is just illogical.

The best I can come up with is they (CB & RF) cancel each other out. But really if I asked who would want Felton running the point in the playoffs over Billups, no one would, except you.

And I was traveling, I'll finish reading your rant, promise.

But answer my questions about so how did he thrive those few games and before he got here?

And I'll add this: Denver is doing better cause their coach is better

 

[Red]

Btw, a deep bruise can take months to fully heal especially if he tries to play with it.

Depending on how deep the contusion is, blood will clot, other issues may arise (his knee in this case) and if the sheath around his muscle is damaged it is essentially a torn muscle.

I've had em', I'm sure he isn't fully recovered. And what happened to Felt when he got hurt?

 

[nyk_nyk]

Billups is not an upgrade over Felton now or in the upcoming years and their stats back up my assertions. Yes, Bilups has experience and leadership but Felton has production. I will take production and wins over leadership and losses any day. Again, show me how Bilups stats and style is conducive to Amare over HIS CAREER NOT 8 games.

EDIT** I questioned your IQ when you made asinine statements phrased as a question like:



That statement completely ignores the fact that certain players and styles compliment one another better than others and certain styles and players can actually clash. So you either were unaware of this truth therefore have a low bball IQ or were aware and chose to pose that question regardless of it making sense. Either way it was asinine and worth pointing out.




It was you who talked about them being rentals...Further I am allowed to talk about upside and potential when comparing two PG's and never limited my points to "NOW". You just made that up to dodge my points...



Well both Denver and NY would rather have Felton and that is clear so your point about hypothetical other teams is moot. Denver was the one insistent on Felton and NYC resisted...why? Because Billups is the better PG now? At this point in their careers Felton was playing better...period! Let alone contracts, styles, age and speed.




I chose option C. I won the debate, demonstrated I was not clueless and exposed your silly debate tactics and diversions for all to see. BTW, if you truly didn't care you would not have mentioned it, linked an article or tried to attack me as being a hypocrite with regards to Gallo.

Dude, your posts are crazy long and still not proving anything. Real basketball heads know that CB is better than Felton. Felton is younger BUT until Billups can no longer play at a high level he is the superior guard. Period. Stop debating because no matter how much you type you look silly.

Make a poll if you want to look stupid. I'm that confident.

BTW, the link I posted is more recent so yeah that's more important. People are allowed to change their minds you know right?

 

[nyk_nyk]

Honestly Trill,

You lose respect with your logic and viewpoints. I think you're in the minority on this one.

Comparing Billups to Felton...? Wtf are you thinking?

Then this whole he doesn't want to be here sh*t? Guess what... MANY players have a preffered destination, what difference does that make?

Melo didntwat to be in Denver while he avg26 per, so what? Aren't they professionals. Isn't Billups the epitomy of a pro?

Sorry but you're trying to scapegoat Billups.

Its weak.

Is this because your ego is hurt because MDA is on the hot seat and your admission?

I guess this is your version of a rant. I had mine, yours is just illogical.

The best I can come up with is they (CB & RF) cancel each other out. But really if I asked who would want Felton running the point in the playoffs over Billups, no one would, except you.

And I was traveling, I'll finish reading your rant, promise.

But answer my questions about so how did he thrive those few games and before he got here?

And I'll add this: Denver is doing better cause their coach is better

He knows this and that's why he's trying so hard with his half a page posts. Like I said, real basketball heads know the deal when it comes to this Billups-Felton discussion.

 

[Red]

Dude, your posts are crazy long and still not proving anything. Real basketball heads know that CB is better than Felton. Felton is younger BUT until Billups can no longer play at a high level he is the superior guard. Period. Stop debating because no matter how much you type you look silly.

Make a poll if you want to look stupid. I'm that confident.

BTW, the link I posted is more recent so yeah that's more important. People are allowed to change their minds you know right?

LMAO.

Yo trill I think the only thing left to save your rep is:

"Oops... I made a mistake... on second thought, I realize its the coach and this stupid system that's the problem. I don't know what I was thinking"

LOL, maybe.

 

[welcometonycity]

Lmfao u get a nerdy fan mad and this is what happens. They go off in their crazy rants and try to prove false accusations. Like Felton but not over Billups boy. Stop being a stat geek. (talk to the hand bbm face) smh

 

[iJoe]

Honestly Trill,

You lose respect with your logic and viewpoints. I think you're in the minority on this one.

This is what upsets me on these forums. Its all about attacking rather than debating. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being in the minority or having "logic and viewpoints" that others don't agree with.

I've already stated my view that Billups is a total rental until we can find an upgrade. As for whether he's better than Felton? Doesn't matter. Felton is better long term no matter how you spin it just because he's much younger.

The only reason I like Billups is that he may be a good mentor for Douglas and a steady presence in the locker room.

Billups has definitely lost a step (though he was never considered fast by any means) and was a terrible 1v1 defender in Denver against all the fast young legs. We could definitely have done worse though. I'm happy with him as a rental, but you really shouldn't expect more.

 

[Red]

LOL...

Its funny... see how established pros make this system look? Not just the o but the whole thing? The o is fine smetimes (limited but fine at times), its the entire approach.

You so hell bent on proving yourself right about mda, you claim the hall of famers are the issue...smh

That's after you claimed better players were needed.

The plan is working perfectly so far, better players will reject this garbage and MDA will be shown the exit, God willing.

 

[TR1LL10N]

Honestly Trill,

You lose respect with your logic and viewpoints. I think you're in the minority on this one.

Please dude. You wont even read an entire post and have run from one debate after another. I'd say the same about you but you need to have something before you can lose it...

Comparing Billups to Felton...? Wtf are you thinking?

What a well thought out point! I can't argue with that....

If you think I am crazy how about you use those fingers for something other than beating your little dick and type out how I am wrong using stats. Career wise and playoff experience definitely goes to Billups but as a PG NOW and moving forward Felt is def better and their stats prove it. Felton is in his prime and Billups is passed it! Further I already showed how Billups is overrated and you are clearly blinded by his ring and hype. LOOK AT HIS STATS!!

Then this whole he doesn't want to be here sh*t? Guess what... MANY players have a preffered destination, what difference does that make?

Sorry but there is a BIG difference between a preferred destination and not wanting to be traded from your hometown in which you planned to retire from. Further, I gave my opinion and even said it was one of two things. Allow me to copy it from my OP so as to dismiss your distortion:

1. He has lost his game at the age of 35.
2. His heart is not in it for NYC and he is already looking for the nearest exit back to his hometown for a front office job.

Is this because your ego is hurt because MDA is on the hot seat and your admission?

LOL, there it is again! MDA, MDA, MDA!!! This has NOTHING TO DO WITH MDA! So when you attacked Gallo was that somehow related to defending MDA? Or was it a critique on the PLAYER having nothing to do with love for a coach? Just stop with this nonsense. This thread has nothing to do with MDA for last friggan time. I am already on record saying I would prefer a more traditional coach! My defense of D'ant has always been about beating back false assertions and putting in context our success/failure via our roster. Our roster has changed so I no longer think D'ant is best suited for our team. Maybe you should do what you joked in another thread and use my statement as your signature so I don't have to keep reminding you of this...

I guess this is your version of a rant. I had mine, yours is just illogical.

No a rant is what you did with that meandering emo driven outburst of an OP. Talk about too long to read...I merely stated my opinion on a player and want to correct what I see as false adulation for a PG with mediocre stats who is now OUT OF HIS PRIME. I think our lack of a pass first playmaker is hurting us and I am allowed to state my opinion just as you allowed to counter.

The best I can come up with is they (CB & RF) cancel each other out. But really if I asked who would want Felton running the point in the playoffs over Billups, no one would, except you.

How can 5.6 assists verse 8+ cancel each other out? Add in Feltons higher FG%, youth, speed and true desire to play in NYC and the margin grows. If Billups were in his prime it would not be a question since he has taken playoff series over (btw, I noticed the subtle shift from our PG to who you would rather have in the playoffs) but Billups is 35, not conducive to the system(like the system or not) and clearly rather be playing in Denver.

But answer my questions about so how did he thrive those few games and before he got here?

And I'll add this: Denver is doing better cause their coach is better

A few games is anecdotal and anyone can pop off..see Mozgov. Thrive? Really? 5 assists and 3.1 TO's this year is thriving? Sure he is scoring 18 a game but so was Felton with more assists and a higher FG%.

You think Amare is going to be effective consistently with a PG dishing out 5 dimes a game with 2:1 turnover/assist ratio? Really!?

I have made several points using stats and facts so don't just respond with "LOLZ, Billups is better than Felton!" Prove it, concede or don't respond. You chose.

And I'll add this: Denver is doing better cause their coach is better

Offtopic and yet still remarkably wrong! Karl is definitely a better coach but the reason Denver is doing better is because they are deeper and the trade was less disruptive to their team. Hell, they have a PG who puts up better numbers than our current starter coming off the bench!

 

[Red]

This is what upsets me on these forums. Its all about attacking rather than debating. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being in the minority or having "logic and viewpoints" that others don't agree with.

I've already stated my view that Billups is a total rental until we can find an upgrade. As for whether he's better than Felton? Doesn't matter. Felton is better long term no matter how you spin it just because he's much younger.

The only reason I like Billups is that he may be a good mentor for Douglas and a steady presence in the locker room.

Billups has definitely lost a step (though he was never considered fast by any means) and was a terrible 1v1 defender in Denver against all the fast young legs. We could definitely have done worse though. I'm happy with him as a rental, but you really shouldn't expect more.

Aboslutely

But dudes egos get bruised and then...

 

[TR1LL10N]

Dude, your posts are crazy long and still not proving anything. Real basketball heads know that CB is better than Felton. Felton is younger BUT until Billups can no longer play at a high level he is the superior guard. Period. Stop debating because no matter how much you type you look silly.

Make a poll if you want to look stupid. I'm that confident.

BTW, the link I posted is more recent so yeah that's more important. People are allowed to change their minds you know right?

Short and sweet since my words scare you:

Felton has better stats then Billups this year. End of debate.

 

[YungMelo15]

We Need Billups to Win. Period! Heres proof...


Remember he got hurt after this game.

 

[iJoe]

Aboslutely

But dudes egos get bruised and then...

I can totally understand that, as all it takes is one person to start the playground name calling and you always want to defend your point.

It would be nice for once to just see real specific basketball arguments rather than just black and white you're wrong I'm right. There never seems to be a middle ground here.

 

[TR1LL10N]

LMAO.

Yo trill I think the only thing left to save your rep is:

"Oops... I made a mistake... on second thought, I realize its the coach and this stupid system that's the problem. I don't know what I was thinking"

LOL, maybe.

Pavlovian! Every post prompts you to scream out about our coach like Pavlov's dog and the bell. SMH. My rep? I could give an eff what you think. You have no rep and the "verdict" on that is most definitely in!

You are in MY thread screeching about MDA when we are talking about Billups yet you question my rep? I prove with stats who CURRENTLY is the better PG and you counter with absolutely nothing and you are talking about my rep? Dude you are a clown, your rep is nonexistent and you have been owned more times than a fleet of used cars.

 

[TR1LL10N]

I can totally understand that, as all it takes is one person to start the playground name calling and you always want to defend your point.

It would be nice for once to just see real specific basketball arguments rather than just black and white you're wrong I'm right. There never seems to be a middle ground here.

Ijoe have I not backed up every single point I made in this thread?

 

[TR1LL10N]

Lmfao u get a nerdy fan mad and this is what happens. They go off in their crazy rants and try to prove false accusations. Like Felton but not over Billups boy. Stop being a stat geek. (talk to the hand bbm face) smh

Who is this directed to?

 

[smokes]

Wrong. Billups has been a historical 6 APG PG so those stats are underwhelming regardless of coach. Further changing coaches will not make Billiups younger or quicker. We get it, you don't like D'ant. I don't like D'ant for this roster either but this thread is about Billiups! Under our CURRENT COACH both Nash and Felton thrived so blaming Billups lackluster play on D'ant is easily dismissed. Billups is not the right PG for this roster AND our coach. Did I mention he is 35!?

Billups is a monster. I basically posted this same thing in another thread yesterday but when utilised properly (and this has nothing to do with the coach, just the simple fact that he is not properly acclimated to the team yet) he will be a beast in NY.

Yes he's a historical 6 APG PG, and those 6 APG won Detroit a championship and won Billups the MVP. Yeah that was 6 years ago and obviously he is not quite the same player, but his assist numbers have nothing to do with how effective he is as a PG.

In fact Billups is pretty much the PERFECT mentor for Toney Douglas who will never be tall enough to play SG but also lacks the ability to be a 10 assists type of PG.

It's not only Billups who has played poorly, and he has only played poorly really since the injury. Melo had 2 pretty bad games and STAT just had a howler last night.

Also a PG is your main focal point especially under MDA which is added pressure and puts more on the shoulders of Billups to make this offense successful.

Billups did a couple of things last night that annoyed me, the elbow 3 pointer when he was heavily guarded for example. But knowing what kind of a player he can be, I can't say I don't want him on the Knicks. He has 2 more good years left in him and another couple of lockeroom years after that.

He's 34 BTW.