my last in final post on this site(regarding stephon)

[clumsy]

My final thoughts on Marbury. It was Isiah's fault he didn't build around him. It is not Marbury's fault that we have bad starting players at every position that had no chemistry with each other. And it is Isiah's fault for not being able to coach.

That being said no way does he deserve 21 million. And all the Marbury dickriders, get off his sack and stop going out of your way to defend him. We are a mediocre team with him and a shitty team without him. I'm very glad he has an expiring contract next year. He shouldn't retire yet, i feel he could do very well for another team where he doesn't need to be the star. Kinda like Gary Payton in his later years.

 

[Eddy Currys House Special]

Dont respond to him, his level of posting is far lower then yours metro.

Between you and MSG one would think that metrotards ass smells like roses.

 

[metrocard]

My final thoughts on Marbury. It was Isiah's fault he didn't build around him. It is not Marbury's fault that we have bad starting players at every position that had no chemistry with each other. And it is Isiah's fault for not being able to coach.

That being said no way does he deserve 21 million. And all the Marbury dickriders, get off his sack and stop going out of your way to defend him. We are a mediocre team with him and a shitty team without him. I'm very glad he has an expiring contract next year. He shouldn't retire yet, i feel he could do very well for another team where he doesn't need to be the star. Kinda like Gary Payton in his later years.

Its understandable, but most athletes today are "overpaid'.

I agree with your post.

 

[donchris]

Between you and MSG one would think that metrotards ass smells like roses.

LOL This is exactly what I was thinking. Normally I'd lick off a shot at one of them for riding Metro like that but it's pointless. You and I are the only ones up here left to give em hell and datruth just waved the white flag. Look every one needs to relax. Marbury is one of the most talented and cancerous point guards in the league. On one had some paint the picture that we lost because Marbury is a selfish prick. On the other hand some actually seem to believe Marburys poo smells like sweet roses. When dealing with two extreme points of view the truth usually lies in somewhere in the middle. Why would you bring a player back that abandoned his team? Are you all that blind that you'd make up a conspiracy theory that Thomas set up Marbury? He's a grown man, get off his nuts and stop making excuses!

On the other hand Thomas is a miserable failure as a GM and quite possibly a coach. The buck stops with him, no question. That being said Marbury was smart enough to know that the Knicks could not win with out him and wanted to teach Thomas a lesson at the expense of the team. Read the interviews. Marbury said 'Who's going to run the point with out me?' and behold, he takes an early questionable surgery and we have a much worse season then last year.

Final thought: Fire Thomas and trade Marbury.

 

[Starks]

My final thoughts on Marbury. It was Isiah's fault he didn't build around him. It is not Marbury's fault that we have bad starting players at every position that had no chemistry with each other. And it is Isiah's fault for not being able to coach.

That being said no way does he deserve 21 million. And all the Marbury dickriders, get off his sack and stop going out of your way to defend him. We are a mediocre team with him and a shitty team without him. I'm very glad he has an expiring contract next year. He shouldn't retire yet, i feel he could do very well for another team where he doesn't need to be the star. Kinda like Gary Payton in his later years.

Idk why everyone goes out of their way to defend him myself. I guess it's some kind of man-crush or something. beats me

 

[Toons]

Would you get rid of Stephon Marbury too?

Hell yeah I would get rid of Stephon because Stephon is a headache. There?s always a problem with Stephon. He had a problem with Quentin Richardson. He had a problem with Kurt Thomas. He?s the reason Kurt Thomas got traded. He?s the reason a lot of players got traded. And a lot of players in the locker room say he?s an asshole. I know NBA players and they say he?s an asshole too. They say he?s not a likeable person. Get somebody who wants to play. They fucked up. They should have got Marcus Williams, the guy that the Nets have now. Keep Balkman and get Ron Ron when Ron Ron?s free.

Just as some stat freaks can find good stats for steph and prove their points, we all can find our own versions of "stats" to prove that steph is a locker room cancer to the knicks....he dosent get along well with his team....and he is supposed to be the team leader....the floor general...the point guard...no one said that its his fault that we play horrible...its just that he's a headache...an asshole....jsut because he made affordable tennis an does charity work he feels he's greater than everyone (in my opinion). Everyone in the NBA does charity work...they have to...and when did steph "carry" the knicks at the end of last season if he didnt even play? contradiction dude...we made our push at the end of the season, in stephs absense...which dosent say anything cuz the east sucks...8th seed dosent mean shit....and ur a asshole if u feel that curry is better than randolph....ur also blind if u feel that we shud get a defensive pf rather than getting a defensive center in the draft....randolph is great pf.....and he is way more consistent than eddy curry.......

The Official Aniticapated MSG33 Respones:


I felt like a subliminal was thrown at me by toons, just say my name. I will address this once more, Im labeled as a stats person but thats not the case. To start with, any argument with no stats isnt really an argument. You have to have some stats. I dont how many championships Robert Horry has won, hes not better then Karl Malone. I drop more analysis the probally everyone on here except Metro. I just have a different style where I make the stats very clear, alot of posters include their stats as part of their analysis. I got my own style, im not tryin to say its the best but everyones lookin for whatever they can find to try to sound smarter then me, which isnt the case. I make my stats clear because I personally feel like its easier to read. We have members on here who arent very good readers and one member who cant read at all. Bottom line is I give it to other members from every angle (no homo) but they label me as a stats person because thats the best way they can defend themselves, usually after already losing.

With that being said, anyone who actually watched the Knicks last year saw Marburys heart, defense, and leadership. Leadership cant be proven by stats but what i already proved he played well on both ends of the court, if anyone wants me to i can copy and paste stuff into here. Throughout all the Starbury arguments, there have been several strong points I have made that were ignored/never answered. Dont even bring up what he did with other teams, im talkin about last year. He clearly demonstrated leadership, Walt Clyde Frazier is not always rite but he was last year when he repeatedly said Marbury was having his best year as a pro. The same woulda happened this year if Isiah didnt mess things up.

• MArbury and Crawford both got off to bad starts
• Marbury was shootin better then Crawford
• MArbury and Crawford are both captains
• Marburys defense was below average
• Crawfords defense was terrible
• Marbury got benched, Crawford didnt

You see what im talkin about? If you want me to prove Crawfords shooting percentages were lower then Marbury, Ill be more then glad to.

This argument has been mainly one sided, the haters have lost it over and over again. Go back and look at these 2 threads:

The official blow it the f*ck up trade thread
At what point will you say the Knicks are better without Marbury


After everything Marburys been through, he still wants to comeback and play for the Knicks. If you want a link to the interview, once again just ask. People are questioning his heart when hes still wants to comeback, this leads me to believe they have something personal against him. I dont know if alot of you are racist or what your problems are. Read between the lines, Isiah has made Marbury the scapegoat. Isiah should be blamed 100%, its all his fault. This guy is desperate, he even blaimed the fans for the Knicks losing. I wouldnt be suprised if only 2 or 3 of you have read everything I wrote.

Im not sure why some of you even bring Marbury up, Im suprised. It seems like Marbury gets just as much hate as Isiah.

I have to give some posters credit:

LJ4ptplay: I dont really like you, but at least you admit that Marbury had a good season last year

EC house special: Im not sure but I think that you see that Marbury has been made the scapegoat by Isiah, and you said you felt bad for Marbury after you saw his interview, after the ban was dropped.

Team Starbury: Metrocard, ABCD, Pricey, GoKnicksDLee, and of course every poster with Marbury as part of their name.

The rest of you are haters, yall can suck my.....4 rep points, haha. You aint on my level. Duck Down!!!! Shots Comin From the GOLD MAC 10!!!! F*CK OUTTA HERE!!!!

First off, datruth said that he would get rid of marbury.....meaning that is his opinion....u guys like so much males, that u have to get on someone for their personal opinion....in the words of riley..."nigga das gay"....secondly, i cant believe that the so called "readers" on this site attackin dis nigga an sayin that "he cant put 100% oof the blame on steph" if anyone can find that in his post id gladly give every1 a million dollars....admit ur wrongs ppl, u are juss excited to disagree with him, yeah its weak that hes sayin its his last post....thats a punk way to go...no lie...
thirdly...come on nah MSG....u kno this arguement was never about stats, u can read dude....i was supportin his FACTS that steph is a cancer in the locker room....just cause u kno i like jamaal as a knick u wanna go comparin to make it a stat battle again...this thread is not about that....so stick to da point next time....and my last point is a question to all my logical thinkers out there...how can a team have chemistry if the point guard sdosent get along with the team? and how can u blame the coach for it? oh and lastly, marbury got benched for his attitude, not his poor play

 

[LJ4ptplay]

That's all Marbury lovers have...stats. They ignore countless examples of Marbury being a cancer and just spew out meaningless stats from years ago. Abandoning the team and blackmailing your boss is about the most selfish thing a player could do and it was a major contributor to this disatrous season. The funny thing is that Marbury doesn't give a sh*t about the Marbury lovers on this site and would probably be an assh*le to them if they ever met. It's the same old sh*t and it's getting really old. Someday they will see the light. Living in denial is a difficult thing to overcome.

 

[MSGKnickz33]

That's all Marbury lovers have...stats. They ignore countless examples of Marbury being a cancer and just spew out meaningless stats from years ago. Abandoning the team and blackmailing your boss is about the most selfish thing a player could do and it was a major contributor to this disatrous season. The funny thing is that Marbury doesn't give a sh*t about the Marbury lovers on this site and would probably be an assh*le to them if they ever met. It's the same old sh*t and it's getting really old. Someday they will see the light. Living in denial is a difficult thing to overcome.

You probally didnt even read my post

Toons-The only part that was addressed to you was where I was talkin about how i bring more then stats

Pat-Notice I said both Marbury and Crawford are captains

Great job to those who defended Marbury

Starbury haters need to stop sayin we come with nothin but stats, thats old and untrue.

 

[MSGKnickz33]

wait hold up, i had to post to this, in no way i was ttrying to start an argument about marbury, what i posted was just proving what i said b4, somebody told me that i didnt have any evidence that stephon marbury is the reason a couple of knick players got traded, a lot of ya marbury fanatics are delusional like this guy is a god, in no way of form im saying this is all marbury's fault cuz its not, isiah deserves heat too but what im saying is, its marbury's fault that this team hasnt reached its potential, and why u gotta bring up crawford, why u acting like he been averaging 41 minutes a game since the beginning of the season, he wasnt playing a lot early in da season neither, and whats this about crawford being isiah's son and what ever, why ya acting like isiah didnt do everything for stephon, stephon didnt like keith van horn, he was traded, stephon didnt like kurt thomas, he was traded, ya give too much credit to stephon like he's done something for a team in his career, all he got is individual achievements

and wtf is rep points, that dont mean shyt, i was on this site b4 that was even part of the site

The rep points wasnt aimed at you, but you been on here all that time and dont even have one.

Cormegas interview is your proof that Marbury was the cause of a couple knicks gettin traded?

Not just a couple players from that team got traded, the entire team got traded. That leaves me to believe that it dont matter if Marbury liked/disliked anyone on that team, Isiah wanted to "rebuild."

Marbury did have a great first year with the Knicks, but most of my arguements have to do with how he played last year, and how well he would have played this year if Isiah didnt mess things up.

Why do I keep bringin up Crawford?

Marbury and crawford were both in the same situation at the beginning of the season. They were both captains, and they were both struggling. Please dont tell me Crawfords a better defender then Marbury, I know Marburys defense was below average to start the season but Crawfords defense as always was non existant. Marburys shot was off, Crawford was shooting even worse. Isiah planned on benching Marbury and Curry for one game, but not Crawford.

Its not that hard to see whats goin on, its clear that Isiah has liked Crawford more then Marbury for some time. No doubt about it Crawford should have also been benched, this is why other posters and myself refer to Crawford as Isiahs son, and theres other reasons too but their irrelevant to this topic. If you want me to provide stats proving that Crawfords shooting %'s were worse then Marburys Ill be more then glad too, once again.

 

[jimkcchief88]

The funny part about this whole Steph debate is that after this season is over I think it will be a moot point. At the end of the season I think Steph will be given his walking papers by the Knicks. You can't keep a guy around that causes that much havoc and Dolan must have money to burn or LB would still be here. My prediction is no other NBA team will put up with Steph's crap esp. for the salary he will demand and Steph will end up pulling a Spree and retiring. Jamal really has nothing to do with the Steph debate except they are on the same team when Steph decides to suit up. That's it. If the pro-Steph boys wanna use Jamal's FG% to make them feel better about Steph quitting on the team, that's great. The fact is one thing has NOTHING to do with the other. NOTHING. Steph acting like the stereotypical overpaid athelete and quitting on the team has NOTHING to do with Jamal trying to put this team on his back and playing major minutes doing so.

 

[MSGKnickz33]

The funny part about this whole Steph debate is that after this season is over I think it will be a moot point. At the end of the season I think Steph will be given his walking papers by the Knicks. You can't keep a guy around that causes that much havoc and Dolan must have money to burn or LB would still be here. My prediction is no other NBA team will put up with Steph's crap esp. for the salary he will demand and Steph will end up pulling a Spree and retiring. Jamal really has nothing to do with the Steph debate except they are on the same team when Steph decides to suit up. That's it. If the pro-Steph boys wanna use Jamal's FG% to make them feel better about Steph quitting on the team, that's great. The fact is one thing has NOTHING to do with the other. NOTHING. Steph acting like the stereotypical overpaid athelete and quitting on the team has NOTHING to do with Jamal trying to put this team on his back and playing major minutes doing so.

 

[Oldtimer]

Stephon Marbury

Marbury is the most physically talented of all the current Knicks. That is what the the posters supporting Marbury see. They are not wrong.

But Marbury, notwithstanding his immense talents as a basketball player, can be a high maintenance prima donna. He is the girl friend, with the looks and figure of Beyonce and the bedroom skills of a seasoned courtesan, who is also selfish and self-centered. She is high maintenance. She has lots of "headaches' and she doles out her sexual favors too infrequently and only when she deems them earned. After awhile, her beauty is irrelevant. This is what the posters who are fed up with Marbury see. They are not wrong. Marbury does not always use his physical gifts.

The Marbury "haters" and the Marbury "lovers" are both right. Some see the Beyonce in his talents; others see the bitch in his attitude.

 

[Oldtimer]

Stephon Marbury

Marbury is the most physically talented of all the current Knicks. That is what the the posters supporting Marbury see. They are not wrong.

But Marbury, notwithstanding his immense talents as a basketball player, can be a high maintenance prima donna. He is the girl friend, with the looks and figure of Beyonce and the bedroom skills of a seasoned courtesan, who is also selfish and self-centered. She is high maintenance. She has lots of "headaches' and she doles out her sexual favors too infrequently and only when she deems them earned. After awhile, her beauty is irrelevant. This is what the posters who are fed up with Marbury see. They are not wrong. Marbury does not always use his physical gifts.

The Marbury "haters" and the Marbury "lovers" are both right. Some see the Beyonce in his talents; others see the bitch in his attitude.

 

[jimkcchief88]

I don't get it.(And I'm supposed to be the one who can't read, but somehow manage to communicate through words, not stupid videos.)

 

[MSGKnickz33]

Marbury is the most physically talented of all the current Knicks. That is what the the posters supporting Marbury see. They are not wrong.

But Marbury, notwithstanding his immense talents as a basketball player, can be a high maintenance prima donna. He is the girl friend, with the looks and figure of Beyonce and the bedroom skills of a seasoned courtesan, who is also selfish and self-centered. She is high maintenance. She has lots of "headaches' and she doles out her sexual favors too infrequently and only when she deems them earned. After awhile, her beauty is irrelevant. This is what the posters who are fed up with Marbury see. They are not wrong. Marbury does not always use his physical gifts.

The Marbury "haters" and the Marbury "lovers" are both right. Some see the Beyonce in his talents; others see the bitch in his attitude.

I disagree with the haters but at least your being open minded about it. Problem is a few facts are being left out. Marbury was coming off what many who watched closely observed to be his best season. Unfortunate events happened when he lost his aunt, his mentor growing up, and later his father. People gotta understand he was under alot of stress, which is why i call alot of their judgements unfair. I think he'll come back next year and prove people wrong. I expected after the most recent incident that some haters would actually feel bad for Marbury, because he was banned from MSG and he wanted to support his teammates but couldnt. The fact is that no matter what happens to Starbury, they continue to hate. It doesnt matter if his pops dies or if his coach makes him the scapegoat for the Knicks problems, they already have their minds made up.

 

[LJ4ptplay]

Marbury is the most physically talented of all the current Knicks. That is what the the posters supporting Marbury see. They are not wrong.

But Marbury, notwithstanding his immense talents as a basketball player, can be a high maintenance prima donna. He is the girl friend, with the looks and figure of Beyonce and the bedroom skills of a seasoned courtesan, who is also selfish and self-centered. She is high maintenance. She has lots of "headaches' and she doles out her sexual favors too infrequently and only when she deems them earned. After awhile, her beauty is irrelevant. This is what the posters who are fed up with Marbury see. They are not wrong. Marbury does not always use his physical gifts.

The Marbury "haters" and the Marbury "lovers" are both right. Some see the Beyonce in his talents; others see the bitch in his attitude.

Agreed. Nice post. You should be an ambassador to the U.N. or something. Maybe come up with a peace treaty between Palestine and Israel because this war seems like it's been going on just as long and with no end in sight.

 

[Toons]

i dont think anyone here hates steph as much as the marbury bandwagon says.....if anyone has anything negative to say about steph, the easy way out is to say "oh ur just a hater" instead of actually trying to see where the person is coming from....we had to have LJ4play come and put it in a nice analogy with sum sugar on top for u to agree sumwhat?? das bullshit.....

 

[Toons]

i dont care if his whole family dies in a train wreck, if he's a prick, he's a prick.....the truth is the truth...no matter how sorry we feel for him.....everyone here i believe said there RIP's an made their comments about stephs dad when he passed......we dont hate steph, well personally i dont hate steph., we need him, he's our pg, but he has a bad attitude and he is hard to get along with.

 

[LJ4ptplay]

It was only 3-4 years ago, you weren't a Knick fan at the time so it is obvious you have little care since you don't remember it.

That season has a lot of meaning.

It showed what Marbury is capable of when you have solid defensive pieces around him (Anderson, Thomas, Mutumbo) with shooters (Thomas, Houston)

You could do much better than present your arguement like a six year old where you just say everyone stinks and leaves without making a point.

I'm giving you the keys to the jeep here, make your point and stop being a pussy who just likes the attention of being anti Marbury. It's really immature and played out already, especially when you're not making sense all the time on this topic. Ask yourself, what has Stephon really done to you?

Four of the five players you mentioned hated Marbury and were traded away because he couldn't get along with them.

Daily News Quote
Marbury was, of course, Thomas' first blockbuster acquisition. The January 2004 trade was celebrated because it meant that Marbury, the Brooklyn legend, would be returning home. But Marbury quickly alienated teammates, coaches and the media with his moody behavior. He was involved in a memorable altercation with former teammate Kurt Thomas and later with current teammate Quentin Richardson. Both players wanted to fight Marbury.

Through it all, including the losing seasons and zero playoffs wins, Isiah Thomas stood firmly behind Marbury and exiled anyone that had a problem with his guard - including Kurt Thomas, Shandon Anderson, Tim Thomas, Keith Van Horn and Dikembe Mutombo.

Isiah tried to build around Marbury and quickly realized that he couldn't.

LOL This is exactly what I was thinking. Normally I'd lick off a shot at one of them for riding Metro like that but it's pointless. You and I are the only ones up here left to give em hell and datruth just waved the white flag. Look every one needs to relax. Marbury is one of the most talented and cancerous point guards in the league. On one had some paint the picture that we lost because Marbury is a selfish prick. On the other hand some actually seem to believe Marburys poo smells like sweet roses. When dealing with two extreme points of view the truth usually lies in somewhere in the middle. Why would you bring a player back that abandoned his team? Are you all that blind that you'd make up a conspiracy theory that Thomas set up Marbury? He's a grown man, get off his nuts and stop making excuses!

On the other hand Thomas is a miserable failure as a GM and quite possibly a coach. The buck stops with him, no question. That being said Marbury was smart enough to know that the Knicks could not win with out him and wanted to teach Thomas a lesson at the expense of the team. Read the interviews. Marbury said 'Who's going to run the point with out me?' and behold, he takes an early questionable surgery and we have a much worse season then last year.

Final thought: Fire Thomas and trade Marbury.

Exactly! Well said. Marbury is a grown man. It was a poor decision by Thomas to bench Marbury but it wasn't his fault that Marbury abandoned his team. Anybody who abandons the Knicks doesn't deserve to wear the Knick uniform.

 

[Starks]

Guys....

Really; this is getting old.

All the arguments going on here, and all the posturing about who brings the most stats or whatever; NOT ONE DAMN poster on this site has succesfully won any argument or proven ANYTHING. Until some here says, "Your right, Marbury is over rated- or Starbury is a superstar", this annoying debate will continue to bring down the quality of this board.

This war needs to be declared a stalemate and thrown away before people start leaving the site. (It really is that ugly)

No one has got anyone to agree with a certain viewpoint, and if it hasn't happened by now, it never will now that is pretty damn clear the Knicks want nothing to do with Marbury anymore. -So arguments based on last season and past performaces are moot.

No one has to apologize or shake on anything, but let's use a little intellect and realise that no one has an argument strong enough to prove someone wrong. If you have been trying to get someone to think about Marbs the same way you do; You had all season to make people agree with your viewpoint, and you've got a record worse than the Knicks.

I think its cute that fans will do anything to defend their favorite players, and I do the same to things I am passionate about (ex. Fidel Castro's legacy) so I get it. I can't think of any other Knicks forum that still has Marbury supporters since they all have been run off the site; and its encouraging to see that a pro-marbuy resistance has found a home on ko.com. (realgm and ultimateknicks eats every pro marbury post alive to the point where it's not really democratic)

I removed myself from this debate months ago. It might be wise to do the same and actually talk about players that are still suiting up for games. And with that said, I will continue to deny any ripping or support Marbury in my oppinions.

Hope you all can think about this.