Official 2017 NBA Draft Thread - June 22
- Thread starter Broadway
- Start date
mafra
Legend
I get Phil's plan.... and, wow, he's brilliant.
How did Knicks get in this mess?
we passed on Artest for a French guy (Frederic Weis), we dealt our franchise player (Ewing), took a bum PG from Serbia who didn't want to leave his war-torn country to come play in the Mecca (Milos Vujanic).... after that, a series of bad moves.
Phil believes everything is cyclical, so today he manipulated the events, to repeat the circumstances that got NY in this position.... and he changed our fate tonight.
He decides not to trade our franchise player this time, then takes the French guy Frank Ntikilina and drafts the Serbian PG Ogenjen Jaramaz.
Jax has finally exercised the bad mojo from MSG.
We just stole the next Johnny Starks and Jayson Williams in the second round. We just snagged the next Rondo (but this version isn't mercurial and shoots better) with the 8th pick.
Now Phil will deal Lee for Kennard, Rose for Rubio. He'll snag Bledsoe somehow, and steal Otto Porter from WAS. He'll deal Melo for Tristan Thompson....
Rubio/Ntikikina/Baker/Randall
Bledsoe/Holiday/Dotson/Kennard
Porter/Thomas/Kuzminskas
KP/WHG
Thompson/KOQ/Noah
Wake up, Mafra!
How did Knicks get in this mess?
we passed on Artest for a French guy (Frederic Weis), we dealt our franchise player (Ewing), took a bum PG from Serbia who didn't want to leave his war-torn country to come play in the Mecca (Milos Vujanic).... after that, a series of bad moves.
Phil believes everything is cyclical, so today he manipulated the events, to repeat the circumstances that got NY in this position.... and he changed our fate tonight.
He decides not to trade our franchise player this time, then takes the French guy Frank Ntikilina and drafts the Serbian PG Ogenjen Jaramaz.
Jax has finally exercised the bad mojo from MSG.
We just stole the next Johnny Starks and Jayson Williams in the second round. We just snagged the next Rondo (but this version isn't mercurial and shoots better) with the 8th pick.
Now Phil will deal Lee for Kennard, Rose for Rubio. He'll snag Bledsoe somehow, and steal Otto Porter from WAS. He'll deal Melo for Tristan Thompson....
Rubio/Ntikikina/Baker/Randall
Bledsoe/Holiday/Dotson/Kennard
Porter/Thomas/Kuzminskas
KP/WHG
Thompson/KOQ/Noah
Wake up, Mafra!
Last edited:
mafra
Legend
?It was a pick that we had to think about, argue about as a staff, discuss merits,? Jackson said. "The big thing we liked is the size of this young man. We like his aptitude for the game, athleticism, actually the ability to incorporate himself in a winning type of a situation,?? Jackson said. ?We felt he had a real good feel for his team and how to play with guys.?
Jackson admitted European prospects are more suited to being taught systems, such as the triangle offense.
?I will bring the Knicks actually a lot of hope,?? Ntilikina said.
"Our game is really a lot about length and activity,?? Jackson said. ?One of the things we have to have is a defensive presence. We had players that wanted to get up and be aggressive defensively and play hard. I think that?s a context to which we want to carry on this next year and this is a young man who fits that quite well.?
Emphasis on young.
?They?re all young ? the top-10 picks,?? Jackson said. ?So yes it?s a concern. We know this is a project-type of atmosphere where we have to build a player that is going to develop. We hope he jumps out and helps our team this year."
Had the Knicks made a Porzingis trade, they would have moved up to No. 4 or No. 3 to snatch defensive small forward Josh Jackson. But they feel they got their D guy in Ntilikina.
?It had a lot to do with it,?? Jackson said. ?He?s upcourt playing fullcourt defense. He?s aggressive. He likes to do that. He thinks that?s a big part of who he is.??
Jackson admitted European prospects are more suited to being taught systems, such as the triangle offense.
?I will bring the Knicks actually a lot of hope,?? Ntilikina said.
"Our game is really a lot about length and activity,?? Jackson said. ?One of the things we have to have is a defensive presence. We had players that wanted to get up and be aggressive defensively and play hard. I think that?s a context to which we want to carry on this next year and this is a young man who fits that quite well.?
Emphasis on young.
?They?re all young ? the top-10 picks,?? Jackson said. ?So yes it?s a concern. We know this is a project-type of atmosphere where we have to build a player that is going to develop. We hope he jumps out and helps our team this year."
Had the Knicks made a Porzingis trade, they would have moved up to No. 4 or No. 3 to snatch defensive small forward Josh Jackson. But they feel they got their D guy in Ntilikina.
?It had a lot to do with it,?? Jackson said. ?He?s upcourt playing fullcourt defense. He?s aggressive. He likes to do that. He thinks that?s a big part of who he is.??
Last edited:
mafra
Legend
Ognjen Jaramaz - G - Knicks
The Knicks selected Ognjen Jaramaz with the 58th pick in the draft.
He comes from Euro pro team Mega Leks, which has been a hotbed for draft picks like Nikola Jokic and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot. Jaramaz has decent size at 6'5" for a point guard, but he'll be a stash for the Knicks.
Jun 23 - 12:18 AM
(I think Franschillo said this was 8th draft pick from this same team).
The Knicks selected Ognjen Jaramaz with the 58th pick in the draft.
He comes from Euro pro team Mega Leks, which has been a hotbed for draft picks like Nikola Jokic and Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot. Jaramaz has decent size at 6'5" for a point guard, but he'll be a stash for the Knicks.
Jun 23 - 12:18 AM
(I think Franschillo said this was 8th draft pick from this same team).
mafra
Legend
Isola:
Jackson touched on something when he was interviewed on MSG Network Wednesday and said that when a player of Porzingis' stature skips an exit meeting it causes other teams to speculate and pick up the telephone.
What began as a fishing expedition by opposing teams turned into the Knicks seriously debating whether cashing in Porzingis for additional assets is worth it. The trade talks and Jackson's acknowledgment that they were fielding calls was the Knicks way of retaliating.
They were essentially putting Porzingis on blast and letting him know that they are in control.
Jackson prefers European players because he feels that besides not being poisoned by the AAU culture here in the U.S., international players tend to develop in academies that stress team basketball and frown upon isolation play. Jackson is convinced those are the type of players that are willing to learn and play in the triangle offense. Well, not all of them.
Carmelo Anthony never embraced the triangle. Neither did Derrick Rose. But they're veterans and stubborn in their ways. Jackson can understand that to a point. But it bothers Jackson that Porzingis, despite saying he likes the triangle offense, is reluctant to appease the team president by working on becoming a low post player.
To an old school coach like Jackson, a 21-year-old kid from Latvia shouldn't be so stubborn. Nor should Porzingis skip his exit meeting.
Or as one NBA coach said of Jackson, "the one thing about Phil that I admire is that he doesn't give a (damn). He doesn't care what the fans think. What the media thinks. What Porzingis and his brother think. It's a little unconventional but he's going to do it his way and if he got the trade he wanted you have to think he would have made the deal."
This is far from over of course. Jackson can make a deal with the Celtics, Suns or 27 other teams on Friday and Porzingis could be an ex-Knick by sunset. The relationship between player and team is not good.
But training camp isn't until late September and that gives Jackson and Porzingis time to iron out their differences. It's funny that Phil believes that he deserves a do-over after an 80-166 record but Porzingis doesn't get a reprieve.
It's an odd way of doing business but it's Jackson's way, for better or worse.
Jackson touched on something when he was interviewed on MSG Network Wednesday and said that when a player of Porzingis' stature skips an exit meeting it causes other teams to speculate and pick up the telephone.
What began as a fishing expedition by opposing teams turned into the Knicks seriously debating whether cashing in Porzingis for additional assets is worth it. The trade talks and Jackson's acknowledgment that they were fielding calls was the Knicks way of retaliating.
They were essentially putting Porzingis on blast and letting him know that they are in control.
Jackson prefers European players because he feels that besides not being poisoned by the AAU culture here in the U.S., international players tend to develop in academies that stress team basketball and frown upon isolation play. Jackson is convinced those are the type of players that are willing to learn and play in the triangle offense. Well, not all of them.
Carmelo Anthony never embraced the triangle. Neither did Derrick Rose. But they're veterans and stubborn in their ways. Jackson can understand that to a point. But it bothers Jackson that Porzingis, despite saying he likes the triangle offense, is reluctant to appease the team president by working on becoming a low post player.
To an old school coach like Jackson, a 21-year-old kid from Latvia shouldn't be so stubborn. Nor should Porzingis skip his exit meeting.
Or as one NBA coach said of Jackson, "the one thing about Phil that I admire is that he doesn't give a (damn). He doesn't care what the fans think. What the media thinks. What Porzingis and his brother think. It's a little unconventional but he's going to do it his way and if he got the trade he wanted you have to think he would have made the deal."
This is far from over of course. Jackson can make a deal with the Celtics, Suns or 27 other teams on Friday and Porzingis could be an ex-Knick by sunset. The relationship between player and team is not good.
But training camp isn't until late September and that gives Jackson and Porzingis time to iron out their differences. It's funny that Phil believes that he deserves a do-over after an 80-166 record but Porzingis doesn't get a reprieve.
It's an odd way of doing business but it's Jackson's way, for better or worse.
SSj4Wingzero
All Star
I don't mind that Phil Jackson looks a lot for players who are coachable and are willing to learn. Gregg Popovich is another example of a coach who expects every player to buy into the team's overall strategy and direction - Pop would never allow a player like DRose to no-show a game, for example.
The PROBLEM is that Phil has this ridiculous attachment to the Triangle Offense (that he doesn't want to coach himself, so he makes Hornacek learn it to try and teach it) AND Phil brings in players who...aren't coachable. He brings in the completely wrong players for the system he wants to teach. You want the triangle offense? Then why the hell trade for DRose? Why sign Carmelo to an extension with a no-trade clause? He has an agenda, but then he does things which go against that agenda, then he sucks at PR and pisses everybody off while trying to do two things at the same time.
That said one thing he has done well in his time here is draft well so hopefully with any luck we'll get some good players. Say what you want about Frank Nitty but he plays defense and can shoot. That's a lot to be valued in today's league. If he works more on facilitating and distributing, I think he'll be a great guard. We need defense and hustle and he brings that. I guess Phil wasn't sold on the motor of guys like Smith and Monk.
The PROBLEM is that Phil has this ridiculous attachment to the Triangle Offense (that he doesn't want to coach himself, so he makes Hornacek learn it to try and teach it) AND Phil brings in players who...aren't coachable. He brings in the completely wrong players for the system he wants to teach. You want the triangle offense? Then why the hell trade for DRose? Why sign Carmelo to an extension with a no-trade clause? He has an agenda, but then he does things which go against that agenda, then he sucks at PR and pisses everybody off while trying to do two things at the same time.
That said one thing he has done well in his time here is draft well so hopefully with any luck we'll get some good players. Say what you want about Frank Nitty but he plays defense and can shoot. That's a lot to be valued in today's league. If he works more on facilitating and distributing, I think he'll be a great guard. We need defense and hustle and he brings that. I guess Phil wasn't sold on the motor of guys like Smith and Monk.
and1
Rotation player
i'm not sure why people are disappointed with these picks. i'll criticize phil for lots of things, but one thing he's done pretty well is draft picks... so far. i can understand being disappointed that he didn't trade up with the 44 and 58 picks for something in the 30s, but if it couldn't happen then it couldn't happen. he drafted a couple of combo guards that like to defend. i like that.
i didn't realize ntilikina was only 18. i thought he was a little older than that. this kid might still grow some more and that wingspan is pretty scary already. and i'm pretty intrigued with the dotson pick. 44.3% from the 3 is pretty darn good. i'll take that thank you very much. i also like the fact that he's a 4 year college guy. hopefully his maturity reflects that and he turns out to be a little more nba-ready right from the get.
the jamaraz guy is more of a question mark for me. i immediately watched some highlights of course. i like his footwork. he's pretty quick and crafty and he's got hops.
but these picks leave me with a lot of questions. i'm assuming jaramaz is a stash. but where does this leave baker and randle? are we going to trade lee? what about holiday? i really hope we don't let holiday just walk away in FA. i like that dude. and now what about rose?
and i don't mind that he didn't trade KP. if teams weren't willing to give up what phil thought KP was worth, then too bad. i'd rather he go that route than trading him for less.
now, this may be a stretch but... what do you think the odds are melo waives the NTC and goes to minny to play with butler and KAT?
i didn't realize ntilikina was only 18. i thought he was a little older than that. this kid might still grow some more and that wingspan is pretty scary already. and i'm pretty intrigued with the dotson pick. 44.3% from the 3 is pretty darn good. i'll take that thank you very much. i also like the fact that he's a 4 year college guy. hopefully his maturity reflects that and he turns out to be a little more nba-ready right from the get.
the jamaraz guy is more of a question mark for me. i immediately watched some highlights of course. i like his footwork. he's pretty quick and crafty and he's got hops.
but these picks leave me with a lot of questions. i'm assuming jaramaz is a stash. but where does this leave baker and randle? are we going to trade lee? what about holiday? i really hope we don't let holiday just walk away in FA. i like that dude. and now what about rose?
and i don't mind that he didn't trade KP. if teams weren't willing to give up what phil thought KP was worth, then too bad. i'd rather he go that route than trading him for less.
now, this may be a stretch but... what do you think the odds are melo waives the NTC and goes to minny to play with butler and KAT?
and1
Rotation player
phil obviously wanted more than just a 1st round pick for KP, and i don't blame him. i would've been pretty damn pissed if he traded KP for just a 1st rounder.
I would have been Happy to trade KP for either .. Tatum .. Josh Jackson .. Isaac .. MARKKANEN .. or Justin Jackson .. i have my reason
mafra
Legend
Undrafted seven-footer rookie Luke Kornet out of Vanderbilt has agreed to a two-way deal with the New York Knicks, league sources tell ESPN. (Chris Haynes)
"Kornet is a 7?0″ and 240-pound center with the potential to fill the stretch 5 role. He?s not the most explosive athlete or powerful presence, but he?s skilled and proficient on both ends of the floor.
There aren?t exactly a surplus of players who can both block shots and consistently shoot the 3-ball, and Kornet checks both boxes.
From pure skill set and not talent level perspective, Kornet could create a measure of continuity in playing style when Kristaps Porzingis comes off the floor.
Kornet finished his career at Vanderbilt with more 3-point field goals made than any other 7?0″ or taller player in Division I history at 150. He also averaged 2.7 blocks per 40 minutes over the course of his four-year career.
With two-way value and a willingness to play in the triangle offense, Kornet will have an opportunity to prove he belongs with the Knicks."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/dailyk...sign-undrafted-luke-kornet-two-year-deal/amp/
"Kornet is a 7?0″ and 240-pound center with the potential to fill the stretch 5 role. He?s not the most explosive athlete or powerful presence, but he?s skilled and proficient on both ends of the floor.
There aren?t exactly a surplus of players who can both block shots and consistently shoot the 3-ball, and Kornet checks both boxes.
From pure skill set and not talent level perspective, Kornet could create a measure of continuity in playing style when Kristaps Porzingis comes off the floor.
Kornet finished his career at Vanderbilt with more 3-point field goals made than any other 7?0″ or taller player in Division I history at 150. He also averaged 2.7 blocks per 40 minutes over the course of his four-year career.
With two-way value and a willingness to play in the triangle offense, Kornet will have an opportunity to prove he belongs with the Knicks."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/dailyk...sign-undrafted-luke-kornet-two-year-deal/amp/
so let me get this straight. The celtics offer the Knicks the 3rd pick, jaylen Brown and marcus smart for Porzingis and Phil Declines?
so the knicks could have come away with 3 prospects and a proven youn vet who is a flat out DOG on the court in marcus smart and they decline?
So the knicks could have drafted Tatum, or Fox or jackson, still had their #8 pick which they should have used on smith or monk I guess and add Brown and Smart?
I give up!!!! this is why I started following the Nuggets after the carmelo trade.
so the knicks could have come away with 3 prospects and a proven youn vet who is a flat out DOG on the court in marcus smart and they decline?
So the knicks could have drafted Tatum, or Fox or jackson, still had their #8 pick which they should have used on smith or monk I guess and add Brown and Smart?
I give up!!!! this is why I started following the Nuggets after the carmelo trade.
Didn't see your post until now but I said so much as this in my reply to Kiya's thread. Phil is the easiest book to read, really one of the worst executives I've seen on all of sports, like any sport. The above snippet I highlighted from you suggest Phil has a very prejudice mindset and I guess calls himself trying to Fake Spurs his way to being reputable but come on you can't be this close minded at this position.
and1
Rotation player
i guess i could KIND of understand doing it for tatum, josh jackson or isaac, but... idk, trading a guy who's already shown positive results for an unproven draft pick just seems like a very risky move you don't need to make. on top of that, you have to think about the fact that we're already not a very attractive destination for other players around the league. phil's shenanigans and stubbornness have already put us in hot water in that respect. i think it would have gotten immensely worse if he'd have traded KP for JUST another 1st rounder. but hey, to each his own.
but it's now up to KP to prove that he's going to be professional and play the best ball that he can this season despite the drama - a lot of which i think is a bit overblown by the way - about phil fielding calls for a KP trade. you have to remember guys, a lot of these dudes in the media and former players and such will be the first to tell you that 'hey, this is a business, and if people are reaching out to phil for a possible trade situation, it's HIS JOB to entertain those calls. that's just part of the business and he's doing his due diligence, yadda yadda yadda.' but now for some reason they're all up in arms about this one. personally i think they're being full of it about this and that it's just a pressure campaign to drive phil out of new york. i don't particularly have a problem with that in general, but i do have to call out BS when i see it.
i am on record as saying that i want phil gone, and i still stick by that. but i don't feel a need to jump on a BS train to reinforce it. phil has given, and will no doubt continue to give, plenty of reasons for that sentiment. this thing with taking phone calls? it doesn't cut it for me.
and listen, if KP acts up this season and makes it clear he's not interested, then you trade him next summer or before the trade deadline. and if it starts early, you sit him down and keep him healthy.
Pop may be the most versatile coaches/minds ever and I'm not exaggerating here. While I agree Pop would've been in D-Rose's cakes for that stunt he pulled...but The Spurs have D-Rose as a Top 3 target on their free agent list this summer. Matter of fact I think he's #2 after CP3 according to recent reports. Pop adjusts to the times and seasons, while Phil won't like at all
Where's the 3pt shooting on this team? who's going to attack the basket? where's the rebounding? We knew we were going to get a point guard in this draft by default because it was full of them..so trying to credit Phil for drafting one is overreaching. Phil has done okay drafting, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
He drafted
Clea(Trash)
Than(Trash)
Grant(Trash)
#kporzee(Lotto Pick He Should Hit Here, Although Gaines Pick btw)
Willy(Great Value)
His only true great pick is Willy IMO
Last edited:
mafra
Legend
I agree. I think Phil detests the AAU mentality, especially the emphasis placed on scoring and atheleticism. He loathes the entitled attitude in some of these products. I have to believe the red flags from Monk and DSJ led NYK to play it safe with the foreign kid.
Let's be honest, there's a concern that DSJ and Monk simple don't care enough to play defense. Both are focused more on getting their shots. I can buy that with Monk, perhaps, But Smith seemed like more than just a scorer.... he had facilitator in his repertoire too, no?
------
Anyway, some Good news, finally:
Nigel Hayes - F - Knicks
Undrafted free agent Nigel Hayes has agreed to a training camp deal with the Knicks.
Hayes will now get the chance to impress the Knicks at summer league and during camp, but his deal is only partially guaranteed and he's not a lock to make the roster. The 6'8" power forward out of Wisconsin has a 7'3" wingspan and has the tools to become a versatile defender. During his senior season, Hayes averaged 14.0 points, 6.6 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 0.8 steals and 0.6 3-pointers.
Source: Ian Begley on Twitter Jun 23 - 9:11 AM
Let's be honest, there's a concern that DSJ and Monk simple don't care enough to play defense. Both are focused more on getting their shots. I can buy that with Monk, perhaps, But Smith seemed like more than just a scorer.... he had facilitator in his repertoire too, no?
------
Anyway, some Good news, finally:
Nigel Hayes - F - Knicks
Undrafted free agent Nigel Hayes has agreed to a training camp deal with the Knicks.
Hayes will now get the chance to impress the Knicks at summer league and during camp, but his deal is only partially guaranteed and he's not a lock to make the roster. The 6'8" power forward out of Wisconsin has a 7'3" wingspan and has the tools to become a versatile defender. During his senior season, Hayes averaged 14.0 points, 6.6 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 0.8 steals and 0.6 3-pointers.
Source: Ian Begley on Twitter Jun 23 - 9:11 AM
mafra
Legend
Ntikilina, Dotson, Hayes.... notice a trend? Active, hungry defenders.... Hayes has some Draymond Green in him.
-----
Dotson, who played the 1, 2 and 3 in college, says he wants to work on "consistently making the three-ball."
"Forty percent is sustainable, I wouldn't say 45," he told DraftExpress.com in a recent interview. "I gotta keep working, keep working, keep working. But I would say 40 percent and higher is definitely what I'm reaching for, that's my goal."
Houston coach Kelvin Sampson, a former NBA assistant, believes Dotson has a future in the league.
"He can score out of actions as good as anybody I have coached," Sampson told ZAGSBLOG. "He has great footwork and great technique in everything he does. He's extremely disciplined and a monster worker. His game really translates to the NBA level because of the things he does besides scoring.
"He averaged seven rebounds and will defend the other team's best scorer. He's an outstanding shooter and is tough. I love this kid. He's a winner."
Dotson was one of three Oregon players booted from the program in May 2014 in the wake of rape allegations. But no criminal charges were ever filed. He sat out the 2014-15 season before spending his final two seasons at Houston.
Asked what he learned from the experience, he said: "Just to stay focused, learn from it, a maturity. Just everything that guys don't get to experience right away, I got that experience early at 20 years old. Just my maturity and just having the chance to play again and just working hard. It made me work even harder. It made me hungrier."
-----
Dotson, who played the 1, 2 and 3 in college, says he wants to work on "consistently making the three-ball."
"Forty percent is sustainable, I wouldn't say 45," he told DraftExpress.com in a recent interview. "I gotta keep working, keep working, keep working. But I would say 40 percent and higher is definitely what I'm reaching for, that's my goal."
Houston coach Kelvin Sampson, a former NBA assistant, believes Dotson has a future in the league.
"He can score out of actions as good as anybody I have coached," Sampson told ZAGSBLOG. "He has great footwork and great technique in everything he does. He's extremely disciplined and a monster worker. His game really translates to the NBA level because of the things he does besides scoring.
"He averaged seven rebounds and will defend the other team's best scorer. He's an outstanding shooter and is tough. I love this kid. He's a winner."
Dotson was one of three Oregon players booted from the program in May 2014 in the wake of rape allegations. But no criminal charges were ever filed. He sat out the 2014-15 season before spending his final two seasons at Houston.
Asked what he learned from the experience, he said: "Just to stay focused, learn from it, a maturity. Just everything that guys don't get to experience right away, I got that experience early at 20 years old. Just my maturity and just having the chance to play again and just working hard. It made me work even harder. It made me hungrier."
Really Pop likes DRose, seems he wouldn't given his lack of defense. I don't know how many times I've seen Pop get into a players face after they blew a defensive assignment, he'd be nose to nose a lot with Rose. He's also not a 3 pt shooter but I do remember a Spurs game where Sean Elliot was raving about DRose that he was back to his MVP form so maybe those 2 have been talking.
and1
Rotation player
now THIS leaves me confused, but i guess by now i should not be surprised about that. well it looks like phil has found a potential replacement for KP if number 6 decides to act up this season. he shoots 3s and he blocks shots. great. but i don't remember seeing a whole lot of post-up play from this guy. if phil wants more post-up play from a 7 footer who can shoot 3s... why this guy? does he think it'll be different this time? i'm eager to see what this kid can do come summer league, but... it still doesn't make sense.
I hope Nigel makes it for his sakes, I think he received bad professional advice. He should've been drafted 2yrs ago but he never really improved at Wisconsin last 2yrs, he probably won't make the team