marbury isn't being traded simply b/c if he ever had the inkling that he needed to be dealt, it would have occurred to him a long time ago, and he never would have agreed to take on more salary (Q). The point of trading a guy like Steph is for cap space and prospects. With our roster the way it is, trading Marbury would do more damage then help...
PTI Discuss Knicks/Marbury...8.4.05
- Thread starter Peach_NYK_21
- Start date
Eveyone here has good point about Stephon Marbury. However I do think he deserves a chance with this team. At least till the trade deadline. This is his best team, with exception of the 2003 Suns. We will see how good he is because he will have two young guys in Frye and Lee who will be feeding off of anyone who is controlling the ball and the offense. If they do not get touches or have a poductive season vs. Nate or Crawford atthe point, then it more clear to Knick fans on who is bst for the PG job. The incumbent deserves a chance this year. Sweetney fed off Marbury. But Sweetney always gets into foul trouble. When Crawford is hot, Marbury's assists are crazy.
I believe this is a crucial year for Marbury. I have a feeling the Knicks will be better than the year he first came to NY. Allen Iverson went through a similar predicament in the summer of 2000. The Sixers were one step away from being traded and Iverson had to reevaluate his prorities, and the way he plays. The next year he won the MVP award and went to the finals. Now I dont expect the same results from Steph but I think with all this trade talk, it will get to him. Marbury needs this trade threat, it will be the only way to unleash the beast in him.
I believe this is a crucial year for Marbury. I have a feeling the Knicks will be better than the year he first came to NY. Allen Iverson went through a similar predicament in the summer of 2000. The Sixers were one step away from being traded and Iverson had to reevaluate his prorities, and the way he plays. The next year he won the MVP award and went to the finals. Now I dont expect the same results from Steph but I think with all this trade talk, it will get to him. Marbury needs this trade threat, it will be the only way to unleash the beast in him.
Cheesyplayer
Rookie
datruth said:
Nets had a sorry record before signing VC. stats for last season
Marbury 21.7 pts 8.2 assists 1.5 steals 1.4 3 pts
Kidd 14.4 pts 8.3 assists 1.9 steals 2.0 3pts
They are the same in assists, Kidd is a bit better in steals and 3 pts, but his scoring is poor and he is not as fast offesively at Marbury.
pyotrveliky
Rotation player
denver just got kmart, why would they trade him away....
hometheaterguy
Knicks Guru
Cheesyplayer said:
First of all you are way off if you think Marbury is better than J Kidd! Kidd is a true point guard. I'm 37 years old and I have been privy to see great point guards like Magic, Stockton, Isiah and even Mark Price for a few years. Mark Jackson was a good point guard in his prime. Kidd is right there with these guys, maybe even in the top 3 of my generation. These guys did/do something that Marbury can never do and that is making the players around them better. You saw Stockton with the original dream team and he was able to quarterback all those stars. That is not an easy thing to do but he set the pace and ran the plays. Price was on a Cleveland team that didn’t have great players, he was throwing the ball to Craig Ehlo on the perimeter and Nance (who was a very good player) down low, but he was able to make these guys better by getting them the ball at the right time and in a way that they could stay fluid and get the shot off. It is a shame that the game today only has Kidd that is a true “throw back” pure point guard. All you end up seeing is small 2 guards that are converted to the 1. I whish they would have LaBron play the 1! Everyone tries to say he is the next Jordan, the next great player, but I see the next Magic Johnson! LaBron actually has such an eye for the game. He is unselfish, gets the ball to his teammates in such a way and he can run a game. It is a shame to me that Cleveland will not use him at the 1. I’ve watched Magic play almost his entire career and the similarities are scary. Do not make the mistake of taking Marburys stats and crowning him the best pg, stats are misleading. He is a 1 dimensional player and that does not make for a good point guard!! He is a great player but a bad point guard and the stats will never show it.
hometheaterguy
Knicks Guru
I wanted to add one more point. Isiah is a hall of fame point guard and if he is staring to see that the Knicks can't win with Steph at the 1... What does that tell you?? When I mentioned Stockton I only used the dream team scenario because most of the younger people today only know Johns name from the dream team. But he was on a Utah Jazz team that only had Malone for years. They weren't surrounded with allot of talent. They had players that had good years at different times but for the most part it was those 2. Marbury had Garnett and couldn't make that work! I mean, that is insane! He was paired up with one of the great forwards of today and got ran out of Minnesota! Yes, Kevin was younger then and his game did mature, but you saw the greatness there! If Kidd was on that team at the same time, they would have probably been to the final a few times if not wining one.
You hear all those reports that Marbury could simply be moved to SG, but he is no AI. He doesnt have the one-on-one capabilities that Iverson has. He prefers using pick and rolls, or simply throwing up the 3. He's great at driving, but only from the top of the key. And like Theatre said, he's basically a SG trapped in a PG's body. He's a fan favorite, but his natural position isn't PG. His size simply dictates what position he plays in the league.
I still think we can win with Steph, but I'd gladly accept a trade for Dalembert. IMO, that would be a steal b/c Dally has untapped potential still there, plus he's a legit Center, which we badly need. For all those that are complaining about that deal, listen up:
Timmy and Mashburn are just a wash. Theyre both expiring contracts and are in there to make the salaries close enough. Kevin Ollie is a solid backup guard that plays perimeter D. I agree that Aaron Mckie isn't exactly the greatest contract to pick up, but how do you think Philly feels about Marbury's almost 80 Mill. over the next 4 years???
I'd politely decline that Harrington deal. He does nothinig for this team, and has no untapped potential. What you see is what you get with him. He had an entire season in Atlanta of all places, and proved he's a good player, but nothing special.
But like I said, Dalembert is no Kwame or Stro. He's much better, simply b/c he hustles and plays hard, and doesnt have any work ethic issues. Imagine having a starting lineup where the oldest player was 25, but just as talented as any other lineup. Dally, Frye, Ariza, Q, Crawford - give them a few years, let Houston, Taylor, Penny, slide off the cap, and have the rest of those bench players be expirees, and you set yourself up for the next 10 years. Plus you give youself some financial flexibility...the right way to "rebuild", as Isiah put it.
I still think we can win with Steph, but I'd gladly accept a trade for Dalembert. IMO, that would be a steal b/c Dally has untapped potential still there, plus he's a legit Center, which we badly need. For all those that are complaining about that deal, listen up:
Timmy and Mashburn are just a wash. Theyre both expiring contracts and are in there to make the salaries close enough. Kevin Ollie is a solid backup guard that plays perimeter D. I agree that Aaron Mckie isn't exactly the greatest contract to pick up, but how do you think Philly feels about Marbury's almost 80 Mill. over the next 4 years???
I'd politely decline that Harrington deal. He does nothinig for this team, and has no untapped potential. What you see is what you get with him. He had an entire season in Atlanta of all places, and proved he's a good player, but nothing special.
But like I said, Dalembert is no Kwame or Stro. He's much better, simply b/c he hustles and plays hard, and doesnt have any work ethic issues. Imagine having a starting lineup where the oldest player was 25, but just as talented as any other lineup. Dally, Frye, Ariza, Q, Crawford - give them a few years, let Houston, Taylor, Penny, slide off the cap, and have the rest of those bench players be expirees, and you set yourself up for the next 10 years. Plus you give youself some financial flexibility...the right way to "rebuild", as Isiah put it.
hometheaterguy
Knicks Guru
bobs3304 said:
You know there are alot of similarities with SM and AI. Actually there are 3 players, in my opinion, that you can't win with... Steph. AI and KB! Now I know you will say LA won with KB but LA won with Shaq. All the formentioned players have similiar games. Next time you watch KB play keep that thought in the back of you mind and it will hit you like a flash of light. LA ran the wrong guy out of town. AI and KB are both very good defenders...they defend their position great! Bryant one of the better one's I've seen but all of them are too selfish and don't run a good offense. Take really bad shots at the worste time of the game! They are also momentum killers which is a real bad attribute! Kobe is the one palyer out of the three that has potential to change that around.... Like I said in the other thread, you hyping up Dalembert way too much! Good player but, at least for right now, just a good player with a promising future as a good low post defender and rebounder.
a knick fan
Benchwarmer
id like to see marbury be given the green light if hes gonna stay on this team, in terms of taking shots. he actually shoots a pretty high FG percentage for this day in age. he can penetrate past pretty much any defender almost at will.
i think hes just too caught in between being a point guard that plays unselfishly and tries to distribute the ball and a guy who can take over a game with his scoring abilities.
steph is a scorer first, and a point guard second. thats what he is. u cant try to make him into the best point guard in the game, because hes not.
but, he does have the ability to be the best scoring point guard.
i could easily see him putting up 25 points and 6-7 assists a night if he started taking more shots.
id rather see him get 25 and 6 than 21 and 8. he can become like an AI. i sincerely believe that will help the knicks more, and i know hes capable of it.
i think hes just too caught in between being a point guard that plays unselfishly and tries to distribute the ball and a guy who can take over a game with his scoring abilities.
steph is a scorer first, and a point guard second. thats what he is. u cant try to make him into the best point guard in the game, because hes not.
but, he does have the ability to be the best scoring point guard.
i could easily see him putting up 25 points and 6-7 assists a night if he started taking more shots.
id rather see him get 25 and 6 than 21 and 8. he can become like an AI. i sincerely believe that will help the knicks more, and i know hes capable of it.
Look at Philly. Even with Iverson, Iggy, Webber, and the rest of them, they can barely make the playoffs.
We have less to work with, a less balanced roster, AND a PG issue. Plus Iverson plays superior defense.
Let's be clear about something. It has nothing to do with how many points Marbury scores. It's how he plays the game, his role, his position. He's not a PG. Either is Iverson, but he is truly a big game player. Where Steph fails, Iverson succeeds.
I like Marbury, and he's a fan favorite, but its plain and simple - he can't change his game b/c he believes he's perfect just the way he is. He has amazing abilities for a guard, but his selfishness and lack of SG size seriously hampers him.
A trade is in the cards...
We have less to work with, a less balanced roster, AND a PG issue. Plus Iverson plays superior defense.
Let's be clear about something. It has nothing to do with how many points Marbury scores. It's how he plays the game, his role, his position. He's not a PG. Either is Iverson, but he is truly a big game player. Where Steph fails, Iverson succeeds.
I like Marbury, and he's a fan favorite, but its plain and simple - he can't change his game b/c he believes he's perfect just the way he is. He has amazing abilities for a guard, but his selfishness and lack of SG size seriously hampers him.
A trade is in the cards...
a knick fan
Benchwarmer
i dont think steph is a "loser". i do agree with anyone who says that it really depends on what team u are. for example, robert horry has been on a lot of winning teams and hit a lot of big shots, for houston, la, and now san antonio. but i dont consider him a winner. in my book, hes a below average PF. his 3 point field goal percentage is pathetic for someone who has been so hyped as a clutch 3 point shooter. hes just been lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time and be on teams where other guys draw double and triple teams and he is left wiiiiiddde open for a 3.
so, steph is not a loser, and robert horry is not a winner.
but, i just dont think that marbury is a guy who can carry a team on his back, or a guy u can build a team around.
besides that, his contract will be up soon, he will be 30 soon, and his productivity will decline. guards last much less in this league than big men.
i dunno if portland would do this:
marbury/mo taylor for telfair/webster/ratliff
so, steph is not a loser, and robert horry is not a winner.
but, i just dont think that marbury is a guy who can carry a team on his back, or a guy u can build a team around.
besides that, his contract will be up soon, he will be 30 soon, and his productivity will decline. guards last much less in this league than big men.
i dunno if portland would do this:
marbury/mo taylor for telfair/webster/ratliff
portega1968
El Cacique
Bobs, you're telling me we can't get something better than Dalembert for Marbs? I insist there's a better trade out there.
Sure, talent wise, there's always a better trade out there. But IMO, that's the best trade FOR US. We need to be looking to the near future if we're dealing Marbury. Personally, I think Dalembert will be an automatic 10,10, 2, and 1 pretty soon. I really like the idea of having a team "grow up" together.
But I'm not Isiah. And Chad Ford isn't Isiah....or Billy King. So anything's liable to happen.
But I'm not Isiah. And Chad Ford isn't Isiah....or Billy King. So anything's liable to happen.
hometheaterguy
Knicks Guru
a knick fan said:
I don't mean any disrespect, but have you watched Marbury play? He makes horrible shot selections and yes, he scores alot, but that is a BAD thing for a point guard! His shooting percentage is good but he is arratic at the 3. You know who his game resembles...Steve Francis! Again, I am starting to feel like I am coming off as thie Marbury hater and lobbiest to run him out of town. I am not, my point is two fold;
1) He is the 1 player that has value, even with his large contract, and gives us the best chance to land a legit big man at the forward position.
2) Even though he is a great "player", and he is, teams can't win with him...like Steve Francis and Allen Iverson.
So I feel if Isiah is looking to make positive changes to this team that will make an impact that he needs to use SM in the trade. Not JYD or Taylor.