Toney Douglas

[iSaYughh]

Woahh. I like Douglas, but a thread anointing him with John Starks and soon-to-be 20 (to *30*) pt scoring with 5+ assist comparisons...Because he's had a couple really good games subbing for Billups?

How we forget how horribly he stunk up the joint much of the season, after his initial early-season tear.

Douglas as our soon to be starting PG?

We should pray not!

With hybrid, and zero-PG skills Fields manning our 2....that'd be a particular nightmare. And even moreso, actually, without Gallo and his ability point-f abilities and effective passing.

We also need to stop this talk about remembering Gallo as a 3pt camper who was defined by whether or not he could sink his 3s.

It's just not true. It's never been his skill set and ability, not before he was a Knick, and aside from his (real) rook year where he was a leader in 3s, and did camp out, he wasn't a 3pt specialist for us, either.

If anything, the opposite -- he was a slasher who could distribute and had the range to keep everyone honest and heighten his ability in those two areas.

Right now, it'd be great if TD could establish himself as a legit 6th man for us -- which we badly need. If he actually positions himself to be Billups' successor after next year...god bless the man.

I wanna see more rotations going forward where we get Billups, Douglas, Fields, Melo, STAT on the court, too, speaking of getting TD big minutes.

 

[iSaYughh]

How easily you forget. Or at least are speaking of that which you don't know or understand? I don't know?

The guy was an amazing competitor.

Douglas has a long way to go, even defensively, to catch John Starks. I love TD, but I'm not gonna pin that medal on his chest for a while.

+1

Too much talk treating unrealized potential and theoretical 'will happens' as linchpins for where the team actually is, and will be going.

If fo puts a lot of stock in treating TD as our next starting PG....and doesn't get a legit shooting guard....be a recipe for disaster.

I'm still kinda steamed we didn't get Mayo when his value was 10cents to the dollar. Rex Ryan move.

 

[Dr Manhard]

Woahh. I like Douglas, but a thread anointing him with John Starks and soon-to-be 20 (to *30*) pt scoring with 5+ assist comparisons...Because he's had a couple really good games subbing for Billups?

How we forget how horribly he stunk up the joint much of the season, after his initial early-season tear.

Douglas as our soon to be starting PG?

We should pray not!

With hybrid, and zero-PG skills Fields manning our 2....that'd be a particular nightmare. And even moreso, actually, without Gallo and his ability point-f abilities and effective passing.

We also need to stop this talk about remembering Gallo as a 3pt camper who was defined by whether or not he could sink his 3s.

It's just not true. It's never been his skill set and ability, not before he was a Knick, and aside from his (real) rook year where he was a leader in 3s, and did camp out, he wasn't a 3pt specialist for us, either.

If anything, the opposite -- he was a slasher who could distribute and had the range to keep everyone honest and heighten his ability in those two areas.

Right now, it'd be great if TD could establish himself as a legit 6th man for us -- which we badly need. If he actually positions himself to be Billups' successor after next year...god bless the man.

I wanna see more rotations going forward where we get Billups, Douglas, Fields, Melo, STAT on the court, too, speaking of getting TD big minutes.

Quoted for Mother-effin Truth.

 

[Knicks4lyfe]

Honestly, Starks is vastly overrated by most Knicks fans. We hold Stark s more dear because of his era and success of the overall team. Important factors, but not enough to keep blinders on. This guy was as erratic as they come, and he fell in love with the there vall too much, played with his emotions too much at times as well. He would be a C 2 gaurd at best today, and there ain't many out there today.

I'm not a huge Douglas fan, but he has the uneasy task of trying to learn how to not be a 2, and play like a true 1. Starks had no such issue. Not mad at those who love Starks, but he was really just solid at best. Douglas ceiling is higher than that.

 

[Toons]

+1

Too much talk treating unrealized potential and theoretical 'will happens' as linchpins for where the team actually is, and will be going.

If fo puts a lot of stock in treating TD as our next starting PG....and doesn't get a legit shooting guard....be a recipe for disaster.

I'm still kinda steamed we didn't get Mayo when his value was 10cents to the dollar. Rex Ryan move.

Toney douglas is not now, nor ever will be even close to what starks was.
Im defending this statement. I said that douglas has the skillset to surpass starks. I brought both of their second year stats, and compared douglas to a young starks, starks still manages to start most games and had more minutes per game, yet still has a lower fg%, 3 pt% less points, and less steals than douglas as a starter.

i am not comparing the career and playoff experience of john starks to our sophmore pg tony douglas. Im saying, when starks was in his second year, tony touch would run circles around him.

facts r facts homie

 

[Toons]

Honestly, Starks is vastly overrated by most Knicks fans. We hold Stark s more dear because of his era and success of the overall team. Important factors, but not enough to keep blinders on. This guy was as erratic as they come, and he fell in love with the there vall too much, played with his emotions too much at times as well. He would be a C 2 gaurd at best today, and there ain't many out there today.

I'm not a huge Douglas fan, but he has the uneasy task of trying to learn how to not be a 2, and play like a true 1. Starks had no such issue. Not mad at those who love Starks, but he was really just solid at best. Douglas ceiling is higher than that.

right, this is what im saying. Many young knick fans only remember the dunk on jordan. So what, jordan crawford dunked lebron. Nate robinson dunked yao. who cares, its a dunk....2 points. Its still just two points. Houstin was a better 2 guard than starks, he was not our best 2 guard.....

its like bulls fans that celebrate luc longley, or bill cartwright.....those guys are below average guys, playing with the best player in tha nba at the time.
No disrespect to john paxon, bj armstrong, anderson verajoa, derrick fisher, robert horry, john starks, and all the great role players of championship teams, dynasties, and the such. but a role player is a role player

 

[MusketeerX]

:wtf:

Wow... TD is amazing, but you know who John Starks is right. TD has some vast potential, but Starks was synonymous with hard-nosed basketball. Toney is a hustler, for sure, but he has a FAR way to go until he meets John Starks.

Show some respect for the man....

 

[knicksin60]

In a couple years Toney Douglas will make Clyde Frazier look like Chris Duhon.

 

[Toons]

:wtf:

Wow... TD is amazing, but you know who John Starks is right. TD has some vast potential, but Starks was synonymous with hard-nosed basketball. Toney is a hustler, for sure, but he has a FAR way to go until he meets John Starks.

Show some respect for the man....

wow, im disrespecting him by saying douglas can get to his level and maybe pass him?
they both are known for playing hard nosed defense, they both were combo guards (anyone who said starks was a pure pg didnt watch 90's knicks). i gave starks due respect by saying he was a seasoned vet, he was a smart player, he played with emotion and heart, but he was just an average 2 guard. he had 3 seasons slightly above average, scoring in the high teens. if you look at what an average 2 guard did in a game back then, starks' numbers line right up. a career 12 point 3 assist player.

 

[Toons]

when starks was in his second year, he was known for nothing....

 

[KnicksFanFromQueens1985]

I loved Starks. Ewing, Oakley, Starks, Harper & Mason go down as my top 5 favorite Knicks of the 90's.

I'm not sure Douglas can ever become as strong as Starks was on the defensive side of the ball, because yes... Jordan killed Starks plenty of nights but Starks at least had the heart to compete against MJ.

As far as offensive skill... It's not even close. Douglas is the much better athlete & 10x more explosive than Starks in terms of offensive ability. I've followed TD since his FSU days; dude was amazing. Smooth jump shot too. The best of Douglas has yet to come.

You all can laugh all you want @ the fact that I feel Douglas will make for a strong Starting PG come 2012 for the Knicks. He's only a 2nd year player & after working with Billups for just about two years; he'll be more than ready to take his game to the next level as our PG.

TD has already shown the ability to put up 20-30 pts as a 2nd year player. But like I stated.. with two of the NBA's top 5 scorers, he wouldn't be asked to do so. JMO.

 

[Clyde & The Pearl]

Hollinger has TD as an up and comer for 2012. Cant read the article because you have to be an insider. (ESPN kills me doing this) If anyone can cut and past it here it would be greatly appreciated...

 

[Deathstroke]

I just compared him to Starks because of how he plays, he's a menace just like John was, that's all

 

[DontForgetDerekHarper]

when starks was in his second year, he was known for nothing....

its not about whether or not starks was known for nothing or known alot earlier in his career, the fact remains he started at the 2 guard for an elite level defensive premised team for almost a decade competing day in and day out at the highest level against elite level players.

the point is, John starks was the number 2 option while guarding the opposing teams best scorers. Toney douglas just wont ever be that type of player, he is gifted yes, but I truly believe people forget

in fact i want to punch my computer screen and slam my key board on the floor at the stupidity of some of these young idiotic moronic foolish fans who truly argue that douglas is at the level of a john starks.

just stop the nonsense

let douglas be all defensive team
an all star
score 20 + in several playoff series against Jordans bulls, Reggies pacers and Mournings heat.
win 6th man of the year
be the knicks all time leader in three pointers made
be top 10 in franchise history in every offensive and most defensive categories.
hold NBA finals records for three pointers made in a series and playoff records for in game three point shooting while guarding Micheal jordan every year.
Let douglas be regarded by the best player ever as the most competitive player he ever went up against.


Douglas is douglas

starks is a legend in his own right.

get over it.

 

[KnicksAllDay7]

Hollinger's write up on douglas

Toney Douglas, Knicks
Apparently the "defense-optional" memo New York sends everybody never reached Douglas. On a team full of marginal defenders, Douglas' ferocious D stands out even more, and his role is increasing now with 34-year-old Chauncey Billups unlikely to bear the insane minutes load that Raymond Felton did.

He's not a natural point guard and he's a bit small for the 2, but at either spot he guards like crazy (witness the Orlando game last week, when Chris Duhon could barely get the ball across half court against him). Additionally, the Melo trade may benefit him by allowing him to play off the ball and spot up for 3s more, something he does quite well. He already has three 20-point games since the trade and he had only four such games before the trade.

 

[MusketeerX]

its not about whether or not starks was known for nothing or known alot earlier in his career, the fact remains he started at the 2 guard for an elite level defensive premised team for almost a decade competing day in and day out at the highest level against elite level players.

the point is, John starks was the number 2 option while guarding the opposing teams best scorers. Toney douglas just wont ever be that type of player, he is gifted yes, but I truly believe people forget

in fact i want to punch my computer screen and slam my key board on the floor at the stupidity of some of these young idiotic moronic foolish fans who truly argue that douglas is at the level of a john starks.

just stop the nonsense

let douglas be all defensive team
an all star
score 20 + in several playoff series against Jordans bulls, Reggies pacers and Mournings heat.
win 6th man of the year
be the knicks all time leader in three pointers made
be top 10 in franchise history in every offensive and most defensive categories.
hold NBA finals records for three pointers made in a series and playoff records for in game three point shooting while guarding Micheal jordan every year.
Let douglas be regarded by the best player ever as the most competitive player he ever went up against.


Douglas is douglas

starks is a legend in his own right.

get over it.

Thank you! Starks was my favorite player... still is. He deserves a special spot in the history books, and to compare any player to him, without such a list of accolades, is plain ridiculous.

 

[jpz17]

he is a stud, and who said we already have a backup and don't need another one? Who said he would be amazing the second we drafted him? I did!

 

[TR1LL10N]

I don't see why you guys are throwing such a hissy fit. Toons and Deathstroke are comparing skill sets, comparing both at this point in their careers and SPECULATING on TD's potential. You guys need to relax, they weren't talking about your mothers or anything...

 

[KnicksFanFromQueens1985]

Great post about Starks & everything he meant & did for the Knicks. I'll always love Starks. He's full of heart.

But this thread was about Douglas.

Starks may have been great; but Douglas also has the offensive ability, the defensive intensity, the heart to hustle on both ends of the floor, & also has the overall potential to become a special player in his own right for the Knicks franchise.

Same goes for Fields. Dude is already becoming a great off the ball player. Doesn't need the ball to make an impact, which is huge, considering the fact that we have two great scorers in Amare & Carmelo. Speaking of Amare; Stoudemire is actually making a strong run for the scoring title this year. Ranks #2 behind Durant.

It's been too long since the Knicks had a superstar. We now have two. It's been forever since we had quality young talent. It's a blessing that we have two young Guards in Fields & Douglas. Both impact players & will be so for years to come. I cant say enough about Douglas. He's a real Knick.

 

[YungMelo15]

Starks was a great, but I say let TD play out his career before we start comparing. Im happy TD has billups to mentor him. Once TD's basketball IQ goes up, he will shine in his own right. Lake rondo for example. They threw him under the bus early in his career, but he had vets to teach him the game. Thats what billups, amare and melo will do for TD and fields. Bright Future's for both, and Im excited to se the outcome.