Toney Douglas

[KnicksFanFromQueens1985]

Who wouldn't take CP3 over any PG not named Rose or Williams? The problem? CP3 puts us in cap hell with no ability to sign draft picks, solid FA's & we'd have a bench 10x worse that Miami's horribe bench all because of a 3rd max contract. We'd also lose Fields.
CP3 is NOT worth losing Fields, losing Douglas, having no bench depth full of 3rd sting players, no solid role players, with NO ability to upgrade our team because of cap hell. No way is CP3 worth all that. No way.

 

[knicksin60]

You don't think with 3 superstars on the Knicks they wouldn't influence a ton of role players in the league to demand trades and join forces with them? If Donnie Walsh is still here after this season, you don't think that he could find good players through the draft? Walsh has proven to be a better late round drafter than early round drafter. All the Knicks would have to do in order to bolster their roster is help other teams, who are desperate to get rid of hefty contracts, get cap relief.

 

[RunningJumper]

You don't think with 3 superstars on the Knicks they wouldn't influence a ton of role players in the league to demand trades and join forces with them? If Donnie Walsh is still here after this season, you don't think that he could find good players through the draft? Walsh has proven to be a better late round drafter than early round drafter. All the Knicks would have to do in order to bolster their roster is help other teams, who are desperate to get rid of hefty contracts, get cap relief.

Why would we need another max? Especially a PG?

I'm all about protecting the paint and having depth on a bench.

 

[knicksin60]

Why would we need another max? Especially a PG?

I'm all about protecting the paint and having depth on a bench.

I think getting a quality center through free agency or via trade is almost as difficult as signing or trading for a superstar player. Most of the teams whose centers are going to be free agents next season are going to end up re-signing them. And since the demand for quality big men in the NBA is so high, average big men could want lucrative contracts once they reach the open market.The Knicks throwing 10-12 million dollars a year on a center would give them financial inflexibility.I'd rather take my chances finding a player who could play the center position without having to use up a lot of cap space in the process.

 

[RunningJumper]

I think getting a quality center through free agency or via trade is almost as difficult as signing or trading for a superstar player. Most of the teams whose centers are going to be free agents next season are going to end up re-signing them.And since the demand for quality big men in the NBA is so high, players like Tyson Chandler and Marc Gasol could want lucrative contracts once they reach the open market.The Knicks throwing 10-12 million dollars a year on a center would give them financial inflexibility.I'd rather take my chances finding a player who could play the center position without having to use up a lot of cap space.

Well, I'm not too big on paying that much on a center either. Just saying, we just need a smart PG. If we can get a Jason Williams type, who can find all his teammates, take care of the ball, doesn't shoot too much, is at least a decent shooter, and drives to the basket consistently, we don't need a superstar PG.

Amar'e and Melo are set with us for several years. If we do something like, have Camby for a year or two, get Chris Andersen for the next year or two, do the same with PGs, etc., then we'd be set. Melo and Amar'e is ENOUGH. Already they're not having problems playing with each other. The only noticeable problem either of them had is early on playing with us. Amar'e early on for us didn't move the ball enough, turned the ball over a lot, then adjusted. And he had to do it without another superstar. Melo didn't move the ball enough early on, and adjusted much quicker then Amar'e did.

Having Fields and some other players after A'mare and Melo's contracts come up will be very useful for out next chapter, that could still have Amar'e and Melo in it.

 

[KingofNy]

You don't think with 3 superstars on the Knicks they wouldn't influence a ton of role players in the league to demand trades and join forces with them? If Donnie Walsh is still here after this season, you don't think that he could find good players through the draft? Walsh has proven to be a better late round drafter than early round drafter. All the Knicks would have to do in order to bolster their roster is help other teams, who are desperate to get rid of hefty contracts, get cap relief.

Look at how well that's working in Miami. Word is it was Mike Bibby crying in the locker room after the Mia-Chi game... He realized he gave the Wizards $6M to go lose with ball-hogs like crybaby Lebum and D-whistle. We don't need another Max unless it's Howard.

Also, Deandre Jordan was beasting tonight and would be an awesome addition to our team this off-season. This year's been fun, but next year's gonna be a BLAST! Go NY, Go NY, GO!

 

[ronoranina]

The NBA is a two star league guys. We have two stars so technically we don't NEED Chris Paul.

It would be great to have him and if the cap is raised this offseason and we can acquire him feasibly I'll be singing a different tune.

But w the cap the way it is currently along w being a witness to the Miami saga the idea of finding more solid pieces to build around Amare and Melo seems more rational than adding that third max player.

As much as I have a man crush on CP3 and want him on the team I have to admit this. Plus, what do we have to give up? There's absoulutely no way the Hornets would trade Paul for less than what Denver got for Melo.. Right??

 

[KnicksFanFromQueens1985]

@rono; good post.

What would the Knicks have to give up for CP3 in a trade? Too much. Most people are talking about CP3 during 2012's free agency, but with a trade?

Fields (Gallo)
Douglas (Chandler)
Billups (Felton)
Turiaf (Mozgov)
Jeffries (Randolph)
2011 1st rounder.

C- Shelden Williams
PF- Stoudemire
SF- Carmelo
2G- Walker
PG- CP3

Shawne Williams
Mason
Brown
Rautins

Sorry guys, but a "team" like that would never get past the 1st or 2nd round @ best. Never. HUGE holes @ C & SG, no role player what so ever & the worst bench in all of basketball. 3 stars & 6 3rd string players. What happens when one of the big 3 get in foul trouble, or better yet; foul out? Think about it for a second. You know what scary? Even if we signed CP3 during 2012 we would still lose Fields, Douglas, Turiaf & Billups because we'd be in cap hell with no ability to improve our "team".

 

[TR1LL10N]

The NBA is a two star league guys. We have two stars so technically we don't NEED Chris Paul.

It would be great to have him and if the cap is raised this offseason and we can acquire him feasibly I'll be singing a different tune.

But w the cap the way it is currently along w being a witness to the Miami saga the idea of finding more solid pieces to build around Amare and Melo seems more rational than adding that third max player.

As much as I have a man crush on CP3 and want him on the team I have to admit this. Plus, what do we have to give up? There's absoulutely no way the Hornets would trade Paul for less than what Denver got for Melo.. Right??

I agree and think the only MAX we should go after is Howard. Amare, Howard and Melo would be best frontcourt ever assembled. Howard would compliment the scoring with his rebounding and defense and we would be on our way to a Knicks dynasty. We deserve a dynasty!

 

[Toons]

ummm isnt this a tony douglas thread?

anyway, how can people complain if tony just comes in the game and shoots, and then complain when he shoots when he's hot?

should douglas just not shoot?

 

[iSaYughh]

The NBA is a two star league guys. We have two stars so technically we don't NEED Chris Paul.

It would be great to have him and if the cap is raised this offseason and we can acquire him feasibly I'll be singing a different tune.

But w the cap the way it is currently along w being a witness to the Miami saga the idea of finding more solid pieces to build around Amare and Melo seems more rational than adding that third max player.

As much as I have a man crush on CP3 and want him on the team I have to admit this. Plus, what do we have to give up? There's absoulutely no way the Hornets would trade Paul for less than what Denver got for Melo.. Right??

No way they...wouldn't!

The *only*...and I mean, *only*....reason we didn't summarily scalp the Nugs...was because of the CBA bullshit.

Without that....we just offer DEN whatever cent to the dollar we think is worth having him/CP3 for the remainder of the season, versus simply getting him for nothing after the season.

Melo's only true qualm in this entire gambit was the humugous, and humungously rare CBA quagmire of unknowns,

Which not just would cost money, but cost an undefined amount.

Not to mention the titantic stress of not knowing with any clarity on any number of issues...like getting screwed by franchise clauses potentially, or who knows what else.

Bitter pills can be swallowed; pills where you don't know the ingredients. And your very life, legacy, and career is on the line, not so much.

That in my mind, if we have the distict luck of being able to get CP3, we do it.

MIA isn't that bad first of all. Extraordinary choking, and huge injuries....that is it.

Even losing their two premier "complimentary pickups", they could easily be leading the league if they haven't choked in the clutch at such an extra-ordinary clip.

Melo and STAT...they ain't BrickBron.

And CP3, as a third star, is NOT Bosh...None of our stars will be relegated to perpetual pick setters and hanging around for open jump shots.

His beauty as a triumverate piece is he not only doesn't carry the conflicting baggage of three prime superstars on a 5man lineup...His nature as a PG, and really, as try ultimate distributor, floor general, and efficient genius...is that he helps the issue from the ground up. Nay, he would make any issues you have with any 2 superstars run more smoothly.

Look at what we signed Jeffries for...Look at who MIA themselves have signed. Look at who you can draft stockpiling 2nds...etcetc.

Totality of this: if we can get CP3, you get him before your heart ticks a beat. The one caveat -- maybe, if we had to do a "gutting".

But we simply won't be in that position for the aforesaid reasons.

 

[KnicksFanFromQueens1985]

Exactly Toons. I guess some Knick fans are like the media. Unless Toney Douglas turns into a Carmelo or Amare type of "superstar" over night; he'll never get the type of love that he deserves from the NY fans who only seem to judge players by their each & every mistakes... Instead of opening up their eyes, appreciating TD's overall talents, understanding his potential, enjoying the overall production that he's put up, respecting his heart, intensity, spark, & hustle on the defensive side of the ball... While understanding that he's still a raw player who's only been in the league for not even two years. Once a New Yorker doubts you, they hate you forever..it's as simple as that. Unless Douglas turns into a top 5 PG behind Rose, Williams & CP3 some Knick fans may never appreciate Douglas, even if he developes into a top 8-10 PG, which is sad; but it's the harsh reality of plenty of New Yorkers.

 

[GoNYK127]

ummm isnt this a tony douglas thread?

anyway, how can people complain if tony just comes in the game and shoots, and then complain when he shoots when he's hot?

should douglas just not shoot?

No. Douglas should shoot.. But not with 1:30 left in the game when we're up by 2 or 3. That is why we got Melo. That is why we have Amare. Douglas' role right there is to give one of the stars the ball, not take two horrible shots.

 

[Toons]

horrible shots? really? im so against overreacting over plays....
look, the whole team went cold....im sure you watched the game

 

[KnicksFanFromQueens1985]

@ goNYK... Do you know which player was the player that gave Melo the ball with about 7 seconds left? You got it; Toney Douglas.

Why aren't you praising TD for "knowing his role"? He did exactly what you were just asking for (in your previous post).

 

[Toons]

exactly, its like some fans only see flaws man....

 

[Knicks4lyfe]

TD been playing lights out. But he still struggles running the show. However, it matters less now with two great iso players. Billups influence is showing. Tony can be scary good.. If he just learns to facilitate better. Starting to like him...

 

[iJoe]

Douglas certainly has some flaws, but he certainly has enough to make me want him on this team. The biggest thing is that he's willing to learn and isn't afraid of big moments.

The point guard position is the hardest to learn in the NBA. When the team has been shuffled around so much, its gonna be even harder to know where and who to distribute to at the right times. Cut him some slack.

 

[KnicksFanFromQueens1985]

Some of you all have no idea on how good Douglas really is or how good this kid is on the verge becoming. Talent + potential + focus will only = success. Douglas has all of the above & then some.

Since getting thrown into the fire as our starting PG after the Billups injury; Douglas has been simply outstanding.

Memphis- 18 points, 10 assists.
Utah- 20 points, 6 assists.
Atlanta- 10 points, 7 assists.
Cavs- 11 points, 5 assists.
Hornets- 24 points, 5 assists.

Do any of you TD critics have any idea just how good those #'s really are? Those aren't #'s of a backup or a 2nd year player... Those are numbers of a really good starting PG. See for yourself, but keep in mind; the player I'm about to compare Douglas to is having a CAREER year.

Last 5 games for Toney Douglas...
-Average of 16.6 points & 6.6 assists per game.

2010-2011 #'s from Tony Parker...
-Average of 17.1 points & 6.6 assists per game.

That just goes to show how productive Douglas has been as our starting PG.

He's our future PG come 2012.

 

[GoNYK127]

@ goNYK... Do you know which player was the player that gave Melo the ball with about 7 seconds left? You got it; Toney Douglas.

Why aren't you praising TD for "knowing his role"? He did exactly what you were just asking for (in your previous post).

I did praise Douglas.. page 4. Read the rest of the thread. The guy's playing lights out. You know it. I know it. And the rest of the Knicks fan base knows it.

Douglas has 18 points and 10 dimes with 3 minutes left. And we are 3-1 with him starting with the chance to go 4-1. Guys playing crazy good.

But with a 1:30 left in the game, with arguably two top ten players in the game, the ball should be in their hands, NO ONE ELSE'S. Did you see that shot that hit the top of the backboard? Are you kidding me? Did you see our Coach go nuts on Douglas after he chucked up that shot? There was absolutely no need for Douglas to take two shots in the final minute thirty of the game. Hell, it almost cost us the game.

I think Douglas is one hell of a player, don't get me wrong, but he should NOT be taking that two critical shots with a minute thirty left on the clock up by 3.