This is a classic Incomplete grade for an offseason. The moves made this offseason could be huge and make the Knicks relevant again, starting day 1 of this season, or cripple this franchise for years to come. I guess a C works out the same way in that regard. Final grades for all teams pending Durant's decision.
2016 NBA Free Agency Thread
- Thread starter htr10
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This is a classic Incomplete grade for an offseason. The moves made this offseason could be huge and make the Knicks relevant again, starting day 1 of this season, or cripple this franchise for years to come. I guess a C works out the same way in that regard. Final grades for all teams pending Durant's decision.
Dwight isn't there anymore so that kid Capela has to pick up the slack left by him, not impossible that he could do that at 80% of what Dwight gave you. My view on their disappointing year last season was they couldn't hold anybody to less than 100 pts and defense was the problem.
D'Antoni being there changes that, that's why they went for scorers, he really believes if you have the right personnel you can outscore the other team while playing a modicum of defense. I remember watching his Suns squad and his system made guys like Casey Jacobson, Raja Bell and Barbosa look like Steph and the Warriors scoring 120 pts a night routinely. We'll see with Harden, Gordon and Anderson they'll spread the floor and the 3 ball will be flying, I expect them to set a team record for 3 pt attempts next season. I give them a chance at being better than last season if Anderson and Gordon can stay on the floor, both of them have averaged less then 60 games a season in the 8 yrs they've been in the league.
PJs semester isn't over but he's got his work cut out for him. This team isn't winning anything with a bench of Quinn, Holiday and Galloway. Forget about Lance, DWill and KS coming back. When they go over the cap by signing Gallo, they should have the full MLE but none of the exceptions have risen with the rise in the salary cap so MLE money and vet min contracts aren't what they once were. So expect the Knicks to have a bunch of marginal players like Sasha, Jimmer on the bench this season. I doubt you can sign a dynamic 6th man with the MLE anymore.
RunningJumper
Super Moderator
This post really makes me want to see Warriors vs. Rockets.
mafra
Legend
This offseason, like PJ's entire tenure thus far, is a solid C. Comparing to what preceded him... We feel like he deserves a parade...
But... He hasn't done what he's been paid for (or expected to do). There are no aces up his sleeve, nor a rabbit in his hat; he has yet to get the "A lister" ... He has yet to make a bold move... He wasn't brave enough to let Melo walk, or savvy enough to flip CA for future building blocks... He did draft KP and he withstood compulsion to trade picks...
Overall, Just a bunch of solid, line drive singles and doubles with a few backwards Ks, after working the count full of course.
With that said... Rose & Noah could make Jax look like a genius... We shall see. Or, Noah could be just yet another overpaid C bum weighing down our cap.
Anyway... With Rose & Lee... At least for 1 season... We have a backcourt.
But... He hasn't done what he's been paid for (or expected to do). There are no aces up his sleeve, nor a rabbit in his hat; he has yet to get the "A lister" ... He has yet to make a bold move... He wasn't brave enough to let Melo walk, or savvy enough to flip CA for future building blocks... He did draft KP and he withstood compulsion to trade picks...
Overall, Just a bunch of solid, line drive singles and doubles with a few backwards Ks, after working the count full of course.
With that said... Rose & Noah could make Jax look like a genius... We shall see. Or, Noah could be just yet another overpaid C bum weighing down our cap.
Anyway... With Rose & Lee... At least for 1 season... We have a backcourt.
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So true .. the Grizz owed Conley bigtime from having a player/coach leadership to push the Gasol/Zach tandem to be winners on any given night vs any team in the league for 6 season .. the Grizz has a successful TRIO in Gasol/Zach/Conley. Conley contract may lead into coaching the Grizz when retired as a player.
Sources: Al Horford, Celtics agree to deal worth $113M
Celtrics adding a star big-man Al Horford to go along with other bigs in there rotation (Amir Johnson/ Sullinger/Jerebko) may take the Atlantic Division title
until one ...or both of them sneeze... and are out for the season...
This is a mafra I could donate an organ for to save his life...lol
This post is FACTS. This makes 2yrs of having cap space and not a whole lot to show for it. So can we put that to rest as this being an end all be all to our problems?
This team isn't winning more than 36gms this coming season....BOOK IT!
This is why better on paper argument comparing yr to yr doesn't work. Take for instance...
Brooklyn signed Lin/Booker/T. Johnson/Crabbe
Keeping it real they showed better evidence of attracting free agents than we did, although they broke the bank on a couple. Regardless one could say they are better on paper this season compared to last but how many of you expect this to show in the Win-Loss column when you look at the rest of the league?
We were pretty lousy last season and still won 32 games. A prediction of 36 wins seems...low.
I don't exactly think the Knicks did that great in free agency so far, but picking the Nets as a team that did better in attracting free agents than the Knicks is silly.
They had to give Crabbe 22 million more than we gave Courtney Lee over a 4 year contract to sign him. You would have killed us if we signed Crabbe, who really hasn't done all that much so far, for 4 years and 70 million.
No one wanted Jeremy Lin as their starting PG, including the Knicks, except for the Nets. I don't believe I read about a single other team showing any interest in Lin prior to the Nets locking him up for 36 million for 3 years.
In Tyler Johnson's case, they literally had to resort to a poison pill where he is getting 5 to 6 million the first 2 years and then about 19 million per season in years 3 and 4 of that deal. That is pretty horrendous when you think about it. Also, how many other teams except the Nets are bad enough that Tyler Johnson might actually be their starting SG day one?
Whether you think they are good signings or not, Courtney Lee and Joakim Noah both clearly had other teams reported as interested in them. In Lee's case, he may even have had other teams interested in him for more money than he got with us per season.
mafra
Legend
Contrary to a previous report, Allen Crabbe has not agreed to a four-year, $70 million contract offer from the Nets.
Crabbe has meetings on July 5th, and the Nets could be among the teams he sees, but as of yet he hasn't agreed to anything. The refuted offer is within his conceivable price range, though a previous report suggested the 76ers might offer him $50 million over four years. We should have resolution soon after the pending meetings on Tuesday.
Crabbe has meetings on July 5th, and the Nets could be among the teams he sees, but as of yet he hasn't agreed to anything. The refuted offer is within his conceivable price range, though a previous report suggested the 76ers might offer him $50 million over four years. We should have resolution soon after the pending meetings on Tuesday.
mafra
Legend
OrlaNDO, Fla. ? Now that the ?Jackson Five? has been set, Knicks brass will attempt to build a bench, starting with signing a backup point guard behind Derrick Rose. Phil Jackson and general manager Steve Mills have spent almost all of their cap space.
Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek said he hopes the choice is a player who can fill in as a starter in case of an emergency. The Knicks are expected to monitor Rose?s knees, perhaps resting him on occasion on the second night of back-to-backs.
Some of the intriguing players still unsigned are Ramon Sessions, Aaron Brooks (who has played in the triangle), Jordan Farmar, Randy Foye, ex-Net Deron Williams, ex-Knick Raymond Felton, Kirk Hinrich, Mario Chalmers and Seth Curry. The Knicks have been told they would need more cap space to ink Foye.
After the Courtney Lee signing at $12.5 million per year, the Knicks will have $617,000 in cap space, and that?s with cap holds on three choice free agents ? Lance Thomas, Derrick Williams and Langston Galloway, according to former Nets capologist Bobby Marks, now with the Vertical. Kevin Seraphin?s rights will be renounced in order to sign Noah and Lee.
?It?s going to be that backup point guard ? that?s the question right now,? Hornacek said at the Knicks summer league. ?That?s one of the tough positions to fill in the NBA. There?s a lot of backups, but you?re always looking. Can that backup step into a starter?s role if something happens to your main guy, your starter? That?s the big thing that there?s not that many of those guys out there that can do that. We got our eyes on a couple who can do that. That?s what we?ll aim for.?
The Knicks will need to renounce the rights to one of the other three to afford a backup point guard. Renouncing a player means the Knicks would be unable to re-sign him by going over the cap. Hence, that player is as good as gone. Williams? cap hold is the largest at $5.5 million, and the Knicks may be outbid anyway with their non-Bird exception if he gets an offer over $6 million per year.
Despite the empty bench, Knicks brass is loving how free agency has gone so far. Most scouts on hand at the summer league believe the Knicks now are a playoff team.
In the first two days of free agency, Jackson filled the two caverns in their starting lineup. On Friday, they reached terms on a $72 million contract for center Joakim Noah. The next day, shooting guard Courtney Lee agreed to take less than he could have gotten elsewhere to come.
Their starting lineup will be set once the signing period arrives Thursday as the two signees join Rose, Porzingis and Carmelo Anthony.
The Knicks have only two other players under contract ? shooting guard Justin Holiday and power forward Kyle O?Quinn. Holiday was the obscure piece obtained in the Bulls? trade. However, Hornacek said he will compete for a rotation spot.
The Knicks coach claims not to be concerned they will have too weak a bench because of the way he plans to use his three big guns ? Rose, Porzingis and Anthony.
?I?m hoping with the three guys, hopefully have two of those guys on the court,? Hornacek said. ?It will take pressure off the bench guys to make an open shot. They?re not going to be a real focus necessarily. That always makes it easier for the guys to be comfortable out there. If you?re trying to sub five guys in as a group, it would be more difficult.?
Hornacek said he couldn?t talk specifically about Lee?s addition because of the moratorium but addressed what he expects to get out of the position.
Noah got on the phone with Lee after free agency began, convincing him to take less money to come to the Knicks. The club bumped its offer from $10 million per year to $12 million. A career 38.4 percent 3-point shooter, Lee turned down a $14 million-a-year package from the 76ers.
?Look at our roster, between Carmelo, Kristaps, Derrick, three guys who can put the ball in the hole,? Hornacek said. ?We have to have role guys. If they want to stop one of those guys with a double-team, we have a guy who can knock a shot in. That [shooting-guard] spot is important for a guy who can knock down shots, create the space.?
Having extended a qualifying offer, the Knicks can match any offer to Galloway without using cap space. All bets are off with Williams and Thomas. Still, Hornacek believes at the end of the process, when cap space dries up, veterans will be seeking minimum deals.
Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek said he hopes the choice is a player who can fill in as a starter in case of an emergency. The Knicks are expected to monitor Rose?s knees, perhaps resting him on occasion on the second night of back-to-backs.
Some of the intriguing players still unsigned are Ramon Sessions, Aaron Brooks (who has played in the triangle), Jordan Farmar, Randy Foye, ex-Net Deron Williams, ex-Knick Raymond Felton, Kirk Hinrich, Mario Chalmers and Seth Curry. The Knicks have been told they would need more cap space to ink Foye.
After the Courtney Lee signing at $12.5 million per year, the Knicks will have $617,000 in cap space, and that?s with cap holds on three choice free agents ? Lance Thomas, Derrick Williams and Langston Galloway, according to former Nets capologist Bobby Marks, now with the Vertical. Kevin Seraphin?s rights will be renounced in order to sign Noah and Lee.
?It?s going to be that backup point guard ? that?s the question right now,? Hornacek said at the Knicks summer league. ?That?s one of the tough positions to fill in the NBA. There?s a lot of backups, but you?re always looking. Can that backup step into a starter?s role if something happens to your main guy, your starter? That?s the big thing that there?s not that many of those guys out there that can do that. We got our eyes on a couple who can do that. That?s what we?ll aim for.?
The Knicks will need to renounce the rights to one of the other three to afford a backup point guard. Renouncing a player means the Knicks would be unable to re-sign him by going over the cap. Hence, that player is as good as gone. Williams? cap hold is the largest at $5.5 million, and the Knicks may be outbid anyway with their non-Bird exception if he gets an offer over $6 million per year.
Despite the empty bench, Knicks brass is loving how free agency has gone so far. Most scouts on hand at the summer league believe the Knicks now are a playoff team.
In the first two days of free agency, Jackson filled the two caverns in their starting lineup. On Friday, they reached terms on a $72 million contract for center Joakim Noah. The next day, shooting guard Courtney Lee agreed to take less than he could have gotten elsewhere to come.
Their starting lineup will be set once the signing period arrives Thursday as the two signees join Rose, Porzingis and Carmelo Anthony.
The Knicks have only two other players under contract ? shooting guard Justin Holiday and power forward Kyle O?Quinn. Holiday was the obscure piece obtained in the Bulls? trade. However, Hornacek said he will compete for a rotation spot.
The Knicks coach claims not to be concerned they will have too weak a bench because of the way he plans to use his three big guns ? Rose, Porzingis and Anthony.
?I?m hoping with the three guys, hopefully have two of those guys on the court,? Hornacek said. ?It will take pressure off the bench guys to make an open shot. They?re not going to be a real focus necessarily. That always makes it easier for the guys to be comfortable out there. If you?re trying to sub five guys in as a group, it would be more difficult.?
Hornacek said he couldn?t talk specifically about Lee?s addition because of the moratorium but addressed what he expects to get out of the position.
Noah got on the phone with Lee after free agency began, convincing him to take less money to come to the Knicks. The club bumped its offer from $10 million per year to $12 million. A career 38.4 percent 3-point shooter, Lee turned down a $14 million-a-year package from the 76ers.
?Look at our roster, between Carmelo, Kristaps, Derrick, three guys who can put the ball in the hole,? Hornacek said. ?We have to have role guys. If they want to stop one of those guys with a double-team, we have a guy who can knock a shot in. That [shooting-guard] spot is important for a guy who can knock down shots, create the space.?
Having extended a qualifying offer, the Knicks can match any offer to Galloway without using cap space. All bets are off with Williams and Thomas. Still, Hornacek believes at the end of the process, when cap space dries up, veterans will be seeking minimum deals.
I'll believe it when I see it but if Horny can win with a weak bench Phil hired the right guy.
Read Lance is willing to give the Knicks a hometown discount and the 2 offers he has on the table only slightly top what the Knicks can pay him. Maybe we can keep him.
mafra
Legend
Sounds like we'll sign either DW or LT... Whoever signs first... We can go over cap to sign either. We'll probably renounce the other, and grab a backup PG...
After that... We'll look to trade KOQ... Free up more money... If not, we'll wait until market settles and see what vets will come play with us for reasonable exemption cash.
LG, KOQ, Holliday, LT, a backup PG, Willy H, a vet or 2, plus a young flier type or 2... this is our roster.
The starting 5 is a cohesive unit that fits... Lots of experience there, surrounding KP... If DR and JN stay healthy, and If KP & Melo are budding star and aging star... This team will approach 50 wins.
People must remember.., when either Felton or Calderon played well... Once every 10 games... We were a good team. Our guard play was beyond abysmal... Rose, Lee, JH, free agent to be, LG will make this team much better... Last year's version of DR vs what JC brought?
Remember, Rose was still 8th in NBA scoring off penetrating last season... People talk about defense, and rightfully so, but on many nights scoring was the issue. Teams tripled Melo... Now, with Rose & Lee, well... That is a significant upgrade over JC and AA.
They other key will be Noah... Is he capable of becoming that defensive stalwart again or did age sap too much athleticism?
I expect a good year... But I also think it comes at a price... Like a few years ago when we won 54 but then lost Wallace, LT, MC, and Kidd... but we're still stuck with Amare cap hit.
Key is to build and sustain... That decision is based on re-signing Rose, getting Westbrook, renting Paul.
I hope PJ gets bold at deadline, and thinks of the future.
Still, after two lost decades... We deserve to have some fun. Get into ECF and battle CLE... Give us a game 7...
After that... We'll look to trade KOQ... Free up more money... If not, we'll wait until market settles and see what vets will come play with us for reasonable exemption cash.
LG, KOQ, Holliday, LT, a backup PG, Willy H, a vet or 2, plus a young flier type or 2... this is our roster.
The starting 5 is a cohesive unit that fits... Lots of experience there, surrounding KP... If DR and JN stay healthy, and If KP & Melo are budding star and aging star... This team will approach 50 wins.
People must remember.., when either Felton or Calderon played well... Once every 10 games... We were a good team. Our guard play was beyond abysmal... Rose, Lee, JH, free agent to be, LG will make this team much better... Last year's version of DR vs what JC brought?
Remember, Rose was still 8th in NBA scoring off penetrating last season... People talk about defense, and rightfully so, but on many nights scoring was the issue. Teams tripled Melo... Now, with Rose & Lee, well... That is a significant upgrade over JC and AA.
They other key will be Noah... Is he capable of becoming that defensive stalwart again or did age sap too much athleticism?
I expect a good year... But I also think it comes at a price... Like a few years ago when we won 54 but then lost Wallace, LT, MC, and Kidd... but we're still stuck with Amare cap hit.
Key is to build and sustain... That decision is based on re-signing Rose, getting Westbrook, renting Paul.
I hope PJ gets bold at deadline, and thinks of the future.
Still, after two lost decades... We deserve to have some fun. Get into ECF and battle CLE... Give us a game 7...
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Broadway predicts 36 wins. Mafra predicts 50 wins. I kid you not, but before reading Mafra's last post, I was thinking 43 wins and literally split the difference. Better predictions will come when we actually have a full roster and not just a starting lineup.
mafra
Legend
I think a lot depends on Rose, of course. We can survive a mediocre Noah... but without Rose, we're back to what we were last year.
Remember that Rose is only 27... His body held up for 64 games. I wouldn't bet the house, but it's not illogical to hope for 68 games.
Again, recent history proves it so, when Felton or Calderon were scoring... Even those bad teams could beat the best.
Rose playing for a contract, with a chip on his shoulder, and without the burden of his home city...
With the competitiveness of Rose and Noah, and the leadership those 2 should bring... With Lee...
I think KP will be more consistent... And Melo still has game...
If we keep LT and get a viable and proven vet PG as insurance... We'll be a good team...
It could easily go south, and the naysayers have history on their side... In NY it usually does... But if Rose plays in 64+ games and averages 15... and if Noah is revitalized Roth all that rest... We could be something...
And, unlike all the other pretenders in the EC who folded in the playoffs... If we get to battle LJ... This team will put up a fight.
Many teams were interested in Lin and Crabbe, I already said they overpaid on a couple. Someone on every team was probably getting overpaid. That wasn't my point. Although there are some conflicting reports on Crabbe(if he signs and for anything less it only improves Nets free agent attraction landscape) and Tyler Johnson can still be matched by Heat so tongue in cheek but...as fas as his poison pill, that's irrelevant since the cap will increase again thus the deal getting palatable on the back half.
My point had more to do with attracting guys to go there and they actually sign. We were interested in far more players before Lee(he was pure consolation) and Lee wouldn't have signed had we not got Noah. I'm looking at the signings standing alone in comparison to expectations.
Not legal to go over cap to sign our own free agents when we were under...here's out situation with remaining free agents
It's about cap space and an exception or two that's it.