Official 2017 NBA Draft Thread - June 22

[mafra]

No chance: Fultz & Ball

Pipedreams: Fox, Jax, Tatum

In the mix, but...: Smirh & Tatum

As it turned out.... For a team that needs/wants guards or wings.... there are 7 no doubt about it guys.... unfortuntanetely, since Ndour made that last shot and NYK beat PHI.... the aforementioned above 7 are probably out of reach now.

Sucks, right!

Now, something may occur....
Some curveball....
Maybe that C from ARI or Isaac goes in top 7.... I doubt it tho.... mainly bc these are 2 guys NYK probably won't draft, and thus I doubt we get lucky.... too good that 1 or 2 big goes top 7 and knocks somebody into our lap....

So.... folks... get ready for Frenchie. Now, of course, if Frenchie goes top 7 then we get 1 of the top 7.... but.... I doubt it.

Fox has too many intangibles, Monk shoots ball too well, and Smith can flat out score....

I would probably lean towards isaac myself, and when we pass on Isaac for Frenchie.... you know he goes next and is a hOf caliber player.

Anyway, barring a trade up.... I think we end up with the French kid, with outside shot at Smith or Monk, and a slight prayer for Fox or Tatum.

 

[Kiyaman]

Crazy hypothetical question. Do you offer Porzingis to either Boston or the Lakers for their pick?

You are talking about Ainge and Magic Johnson .. Both GM's would embarrassed Phil on the phone when they offer a 2nd round pick for KP weak performance.
Would u give a early 2017 first round pick for Julius Randle?
I put Julius Randle performance above KP performance on a lot of levels.

 

[Broadway]

We worked out Dorsey, that's encouraging he was one of the first. Really love the idea of getting someone of his caliber if possible. It's guys like him who's stock could rise from workouts

 

[pat]

KP weak 2 yr experience = 20 to 30 pick .. STOP putting KP potential with the NBA big-boys bcuz he shoot 3 balls .. KP average a weak 16/7 receiving 32 min per game in 2 seasons ...at the start of the 2016-17 regular season i mention rookie Willy will be more NBA ready than KP will be in his 2nd season which turn out I was right. KP played 66 weak games b4 getting injured in midseason again, showing no signs of improvement on offense/defense nor any signs developing inside the paint area during the 2016-17 regular season.

Following this logic, you would have traded away Dirk.

 

[Kiyaman]

Following this logic, you would have traded away Dirk.

Dirk was a 7 foot bum bum bum ha ha ha ..
Cuban invested several millions in private coaches to keep Dirk in the league. If u dont remember how opponents like Shaq Malone Duncan Rasheed KG Webber Amare made punk Dirk stay out of the paint for 48 minutes a game.
Steve Nash used to scream on Dirk punkness of staying out the paint .. or u didnt notice how Amare had 30 or more points every game against Dirk when Nash became a Phoenix Suns.
Dirk didnt win no championship ring .. u better check the Championship Mavs roster and head-coach before u give Dirk a iota of credit .. head-coach Rick Carlisle put together Detroit championship team with PG Billups, plus u witness what PG Jason Kidd could do having one season with the Knicks. And if u dont know anything bout Shawn Matrix Marion then u dont know how Dantoni got a coaching career in the NBA.

 

[mafra]

We worked out Dorsey, that's encouraging he was one of the first. Really love the idea of getting someone of his caliber if possible. It's guys like him who's stock could rise from workouts

Dorsey and Justin Jax (or Thornwell) vs just Isaac or French PG? Tough call, right. I go for the double dip.

I don't know if Phil will draft an unknown French kid who may or may not be a bust in 3 years?

 

[paris401]

To say Phil Jackson did not envision our future being the way it is today when he made the Tyson Chandler trade then resigning Melo to a $125M contract .. then the Phil Jackson we receive is not the person with championship rings backing his name.

w winning coach like pjax does not make a winning gm... just as the greatest player ever (MJ) does not always make a great owner... picking that turd from gonzoga adam..whatever his name is... .. how many years has he owned the hornets... he's as sucky as pjax is....

 

[Broadway]

I am aware that Dennis Smith has worked out for the Magic already. Searching for some insight on the workout.

Berman from The Post has an article recently written about him and potential possibility to the Knicks.

 

[mafra]

I am aware that Dennis Smith has worked out for the Magic already. Searching for some insight on the workout.

Berman from The Post has an article recently written about him and potential possibility to the Knicks.

Before the season began.... Word was NYK loved Smith. It would be fascinating to see who we would pick if Monk, Smith, and frenchie were all still on the board. But, truth is, we'd be fortunate if 2 of these were available.

My board is:

Fox
Tatum
Monk
Smith
Isaac
Frenchie

Now.... we don't get to interview the guys, so the point is mute anyway.... good news is we are locked in a sweet position to grab 1 of that mix.

Toss in KP and WHG and a lottery pick next year.... and year after that.... we should be good to go come 2019-2020 season.

 

[pat]

Kiya, this is wrong on so many levels. Over his career Dirk is one of the highest ranking +/- players. There were no millions invested in private coaches. Dirk worked with Holger Geschwinder every summer. You find plenty of documentaries on the Ol' youTube. Whenever Dirk's mechanics were off, Geschwinder was brought in from W?rzburg. Maybe you need to go back to the 2011 finals. He put them on his back while playing with a high fever, sticking it to Lebron and Wade for making fun of his cough. Of course he had a great supporting cast, but he did a rare thing in 2011: Winning a ring with a team where he is the sole superstar. That usually oesn't happen in today's NBA.
Just because a 7 footer does not play inside as much as it used to be the case, it doesn't make you a bum. In fact, look at all the mileage that Dirk's body endured and compare it to a player like Oden or compare it to Blake Griffin. This is what happens if you bulk up at too early an age, too quickly and too much. It is perfectly clear, that you have to play differently to achieve that.

Dirk was a 7 foot bum bum bum ha ha ha ..
Cuban invested several millions in private coaches to keep Dirk in the league. If u dont remember how opponents like Shaq Malone Duncan Rasheed KG Webber Amare made punk Dirk stay out of the paint for 48 minutes a game.
Steve Nash used to scream on Dirk punkness of staying out the paint .. or u didnt notice how Amare had 30 or more points every game against Dirk when Nash became a Phoenix Suns.
Dirk didnt win no championship ring .. u better check the Championship Mavs roster and head-coach before u give Dirk a iota of credit .. head-coach Rick Carlisle put together Detroit championship team with PG Billups, plus u witness what PG Jason Kidd could do having one season with the Knicks. And if u dont know anything bout Shawn Matrix Marion then u dont know how Dantoni got a coaching career in the NBA.

 

[tiger0330]

Crazy hypothetical question. Do you offer Porzingis to either Boston or the Lakers for their pick?

One of the stories on the ESPN home page. Trade the number 1 pick for KP? It's legitimate option for Boston because they have depth at the position with an All Star there now along with Smart, Bradley, Rozier and even Demetrius Jackson who they stashed away in the D-League. Also KP is going to be clearly better than Olynyk despite his game 7 performance against the Wiz. If I was Phil I would call Ainge and see if there is any interest in Brown and the number 1 for KP. Now should the Knicks do a swap of the 8th pick to Boston to make the deal happen? BTW, I'm getting an Insider sub so I'll be posting those stories so the members can read them.

Should the Boston Celtics swap the No. 1 in the 2017 NBA draft pick for superstars Jimmy Butler or Paul George (or a future star such as Kristaps Porzingis)? How do current All-Star Isaiah Thomas and free agents like Gordon Hayward factor into the decision?

Chad Ford and Kevin Pelton debate Boston's options and offer their verdicts.

 

[Broadway]

Should the Boston Celtics swap the No. 1 in the 2017 NBA draft pick for superstars Jimmy Butler or Paul George (or a future star such as Kristaps Porzingis)? How do current All-Star Isaiah Thomas and free agents like Gordon Hayward factor into the decision?

Chad Ford and Kevin Pelton debate Boston's options and offer their verdicts.

If current rumors are true makes sense for Ainge not to have thrown the farm at players like Butler/George if their target is Hayward who was coached by Stevens at Butler. Since Hayward didn't make an All-NBA team, he could be enticed to bolt UTAH in Free Agency if he opts out.

 

[Kiyaman]

Kiya, this is wrong on so many levels. Over his career Dirk is one of the highest ranking +/- players. There were no millions invested in private coaches. Dirk worked with Holger Geschwinder every summer. You find plenty of documentaries on the Ol' youTube. Whenever Dirk's mechanics were off, Geschwinder was brought in from W?rzburg. Maybe you need to go back to the 2011 finals. He put them on his back while playing with a high fever, sticking it to Lebron and Wade for making fun of his cough. Of course he had a great supporting cast, but he did a rare thing in 2011: Winning a ring with a team where he is the sole superstar. That usually oesn't happen in today's NBA.
Just because a 7 footer does not play inside as much as it used to be the case, it doesn't make you a bum. In fact, look at all the mileage that Dirk's body endured and compare it to a player like Oden or compare it to Blake Griffin. This is what happens if you bulk up at too early an age, too quickly and too much. It is perfectly clear, that you have to play differently to achieve that.

How many times has Dirk been in the WCF ?

In 2011 there was no way the Mavs had a chance at beating OKC in a series .. OKC coach Brooks played a small lineup decreasing Ibaka minutes throughout the series letting the Mavs center Tyson Chandler/Haywood dominate the paint throughout the series.

The Miami BIG-3 were HATED by the entire NBA throughout the 2010-11 regular season, especially when Miami went on 20-1 win streak in the regular season. The BIG-HATE made the Miami Heat BIG-3 refuse to sweep Philly in the first round, and refuse to sweep Boston in the 2nd round, and refuse to sweep the Bulls in the ECF .. they gave each team one win in the series.
If u and others want to believe the Mavs were a better playoff team then the Miami Heat BIG-3 in 2011 FINALS .. keep on believing. Pat Riley BIG-3 did the right thing by not winning the championship their first season together.

 

[Kiyaman]

One of the stories on the ESPN home page. Trade the number 1 pick for KP? It's legitimate option for Boston because they have depth at the position with an All Star there now along with Smart, Bradley, Rozier and even Demetrius Jackson who they stashed away in the D-League. Also KP is going to be clearly better than Olynyk despite his game 7 performance against the Wiz. If I was Phil I would call Ainge and see if there is any interest in Brown and the number 1 for KP. Now should the Knicks do a swap of the 8th pick to Boston to make the deal happen? BTW, I'm getting an Insider sub so I'll be posting those stories so the members can read them.

I dont think Boston would trade Olynik all-around hustle for KP .... I would trade KP quick as lightening just for Boston's combo-guard Smart.

 

[tiger0330]

If current rumors are true makes sense for Ainge not to have thrown the farm at players like Butler/George if their target is Hayward who was coached by Stevens at Butler. Since Butler didn't make an All-NBA team, he could be enticed to bolt UTAH in Free Agency if he opts out.

 

[Broadway]

I meant to say Hayward in the last sentence...gotta a little "Butler" type happy :teeth:.

For the record I don't think #kporzee has the same trade value as Butler and George, not even close actually. Therefore Tig I don't see the Celtics entertaining at all anything close to #1 and Brown for #kporzee. When you sit at the top of a draft and know it's a deep, not gonna happen.

I will say Celtics have another valuable asset from Brooklyn which is a swap pick next yr 2018(unprotected I believe), so in that sense I could see #kporzee getting us possibly that and say Crowder. I'd be curious to know if they were one of the teams who contacted the Knicks about #kporzee about a couple weeks ago.

Be careful with Insider...this is Chad Ford's last yr doing it so he'll probably go out with a bang with these wild stories.

 

[mafra]

I don't think Fultz is a Lebron type talent; heck, he's not even in the Kyrie, Westbrook, Durant range....

Not taking anything away from his potential, but from what I've seen.... Fultz, Ball, Fox, Smith, Durant, Tatum, Jax, Ntilinki, Isaac are pretty much in the same mold....

Don't be surprised if BOS takes Isaac or Ball even. Ball is arguably the 1 player above all the rest.... And Isaac may be best fit for this current BOS roster, especially if they sign Heyward in free agency.

Most claim Fultz is the best player tho, and that could be true....
If BOS drafts him that's a clear sign they'll letting Bradley and Smart walk in free agency.

Ball could step in and be their PG.... run the offense.... Isaac could rim protect....

Anyway.... tough call for BOs. What's best for team now or in future.

As for NYK.... just do your homework. Sure, it hurt missing out in Curry in 2009.... but if that idiot Walsh did his work.... NY would have DeRozan right now.

There's no need to trade KP unless you get 1 or 2 AND a young player.

 

[tiger0330]

I meant to say Hayward in the last sentence...gotta a little "Butler" type happy :teeth:.

For the record I don't think #kporzee has the same trade value as Butler and George, not even close actually. Therefore Tig I don't see the Celtics entertaining at all anything close to #1 and Brown for #kporzee. When you sit at the top of a draft and know it's a deep, not gonna happen.

I will say Celtics have another valuable asset from Brooklyn which is a swap pick next yr 2018(unprotected I believe), so in that sense I could see #kporzee getting us possibly that and say Crowder. I'd be curious to know if they were one of the teams who contacted the Knicks about #kporzee about a couple weeks ago.

Be careful with Insider...this is Chad Ford's last yr doing it so he'll probably go out with a bang with these wild stories.

Their owner Grousebeck said it would take heaven and earth to get the number one pick from BOS. They're going to keep the pick more than likely, he even said they might take Ball. Ball is not going to workout for them more than likely with Lavar telling Ainge to pick Fultz. I can see a guy not wanting to go to Orlando/PHI because they're not winning but BOS is a storied franchise with a bright future, no reason for Lavar or Lonzo to disrespect the Celts like that.

I wonder if Woj and his team are going to take over Insider. He was creating a lot of content with Yahoo and his The Vertical. He would be a great addition to Insider.

 

[Broadway]

I don't think Fultz is a Lebron type talent; heck, he's not even in the Kyrie, Westbrook, Durant range....

There's no need to trade KP unless you get 1 or 2 AND a young player.

Well that might be sound reasoning but why even trade for #1 or #2 if the player there is a lesser caliber talent than Irving? Where was Irving taking the Cavs prior to Lebron's arrival? That would mean the player at 8 is most likely a lesser talent ceiling wise in comparison to 1 who's already presumably less than Irving.

For me it's simple. I go back to the panel on NBAtv and they said thinking there's 5 stars minimum in this draft. Maybe they're being slightly optimistic, maybe it's closer to 3 but I'll rock with that 5 spot. It's simply a matter of who are they.

As you said by doing homework we can still be in position to get one. Ask yourself when is the last time we've ever seen a draft where the first 5 players selected were spot on studs? 20-30yrs ago? Not sure if at all and it probably won't happen again this yr even in a deep draft, someone will advertently or inadvertently miscalculate and make a mistake within the top 5 for sure. All 8 teams picking in succession will not make home run picks. Even if these players aren't quite comparable to a past generational talents, what we need is for them to be amongst the best of their generation. Lebron will be wrapping up his career when most of these guys drafted in June are just hitting their prime.

Case in point I don't think Towns is a better talent than say KG but he very well may be the best player of his generation. Great point on Derozan, probably not better than Harden/Curry/Griffin(healthy) but he's clearly a Star in this league. Derozan is not a D-Wade talent, he's not Vince Carter or even T-Mac but he made an All-NBA team and Paul George/Hayward/CP3/Cousins/Thompson did not

If we keep the pick, by making the selection this should be our ideal best case scenario ^^^^^^^^

 

[mafra]

I agree. It's like a few years ago.... We missed out on KAT but we're saved from ourselves bc we dropped from 2 to 4.... instead of DR or JO we landed KP.

Most drafts there are plenty of misses in the top 10.... some
Hits after 10 (Kobe and K-Leonard went in the teens).

Obviously, you want to have more options and to choose the prospect you covet the most.... and chances are more likely we draft a bust at 8 than hit a HR....

Still, this is a deep class.... maybe not many once in a generation stars.... but just loaded with professional talent.

The key is finding a solid, borderline all star, 10 year starter player. Add that to KP and WHG and another lottery pick next year.... The foundation will be laid.